Delver is amazing when you cast it turn 1 and transform it then 2, which is almost never. Everything said about Sea Gate Oracle can pretty much be applied to Delver.
What was said about Sea Gate Oracle? Oracle actually sees a lot of play in my cube successfully, while Delver is inconsistent even in decks designed around it.
Yeah, totally agree about it being in the same grey area as Augur of Bolas. In constructed, Augur is pretty good, and Delver is format warping, but cube isn't as consistent with getting them out early or flipping them fast, so they become deceptively weak.
They're both cards that shine with consistency, but struggle with the random nature of the cube.
Yeah, totally agree about it being in the same grey area as Augur of Bolas. In constructed, Augur is pretty good, and Delver is format warping, but cube isn't as consistent with getting them out early or flipping them fast, so they become deceptively weak.
They're both cards that shine with consistency, but struggle with the random nature of the cube.
A million times this. Delver has just never been impressive to me for cube.
Augur of Bolas looks at three cards, which is a good start for digging. It's also a very relevant 1/3 for 2. Delver just isn't really built for cubes, unfortunately. I just added AoB for spells matter support, and it's been good, but Delver failed for us on two stints in the cube.
My experience with Augur has been how LSV described the actual rules text once: "When AoB ETB, Look at the top 3 cards of your library, and put them on the bottom of your library in any order."
In regular limited the best command, and while not the best command in cube it still does work.
-Do you play Profane Command? Does it feel like it's time has passed? If not what size would you play it at?
-Pros and cons of the card?
-What is the meaning of life? Why do we get out of bed every day?
I play Profane Command in my 360 unpowered cube. I haven't seen anything solid out of it in some time, so it's been close to getting replaced. It's seen play mostly in midrange decks where the default mode is removing a creature + reanimating something for ~5 mana. Its maindeck rate is a little on the lower side for black cards in my cube, which I can understand - I'm rarely excited to have the card in my decks and it's usually one of the last cards to make it in or one of the first cards to go out. Admittedly, I haven't had a ton of experience with it. I've been hesitant to cut it because of the praise it's gotten here and because I haven't personally played it often enough to form a final opinion.
I can see it as very borderline for 360, but it will probably never be cut from my 720. I think it's in the top half of my black cards in a 96-card section.
Delver is unplayable in many on color decks, and not even that big a payoff in the right one. Plus, even when it will be correct to play, it has a mana crypt-esque type of variance that I consider not disqualificatory, but certainly penalizing.
That said, we are going to test a custom double flip-faced Delver//Researcher//Docent//Iteration card, which may be powerful enough and will hopefully lead to cool stories.
Edit: Whoops, the thread title was still on Delver, when I commented. Profane Command thoughts incoming.
-Do you play Profane Command? Does it feel like it's time has passed? If not what size would you play it at?
-Pros and cons of the card?
-What is the meaning of life? Why do we get out of bed every day?
- Yes. Nope. Not 360, almost certainly at 540+, 450 is most dependent on factors beyond pure powerlevel.
- It has great flexibility, but doesn't get dinged that much on mana efficiency for it. The two "ideal" modes are value -- zombify+removal -- and finisher -- life loss and fear. That said, it is great that you can get incidental damage (either direct of via fear) tacked on to your removal if you don't have a dead guy or tacked onto your resurrect if they don't have dudes. The cons are that it is pretty low impact at cmc 4 or less, the fear mode is much worse vs black (duh), and it's only reliable defensive mode is pretty meh vs token swarms. If you have no creatures the only mode is lose+removal, at which point it is overcosted. As a sorcery, it also doesn't play that well with countermagic, so it isn't particularly strong in more blue based controlling decks.
- Life has no meaning, and we get out of bed every day in the expectation that not doing so would be less fun in the long run.
Edit: Whoops, the thread title was still on Delver, when I commented. Profane Command thoughts incoming.
I'm removing card names from the thread title until my vacation's over, that should help prevent overlap.
As for Profane Command, I just cut it to make room to try Sinkhole. Profane Command is decent value, but requires an awful lot of mana to do anything. If Sinkhole proves too narrow, I may bring it back, but for now I think it just misses the cut for me.
Everytime I consider Profane Command as a potential cut, I see it in action shortly after and reconsider. Probably the most unpredictable finisher. Kills out of nowhere.
This also summarizes Profane Command for me. It doesn't see play in every deck, but it tends to win the game whenever somebody casts it.
Played with it for a few years when it came out before it got cut. No one missed it. In my experience no deck needed it - it is midrange filler for aggressive decks or a conditional low impact spell for midrange decks. Usually only one mode was relevant in any given time.
Far too fair for small cubes in my experience, and doesn't do quite enough to support a particular archetype, but that's said it's a very easy, scaleable spell to get card advantage from. It's definitely no Sinkhole however.
Are you seeking more artifact.dec support? (Sorry.) Well I have tez the card for you! (You know, phoenetically, like, Tez=Just if you pronounce it like 'jezt'? Ok seriously Ill stop.) You'll be plainly walking to your mailbox to pick yours up! (Wtf am I even saying.)
-Do you run Tezz? What size is your cube?
-Do you explicitly support artifact.dec or like it as generally good card?
-Do you also run Time Vault?
-What are you seeking for your next meal?
-WHY CAN'T I STOP.
I'd run Tezz if I had one (450 semi powered) because even if your artifacts are mostly mana rocks and equipments, he's enough to make it a viable mono-blue artifact strat.
I think it's generally good if your artifact density is above a certain level. If you lack artifacts, he's going to struggle, and really rely on his -X ability.
Can't say I've ever played either Tezz in cube (I have an unpowered cube so no artifact.dec for me) but I'm sure it's great, it'd be nice to have a monoblue planeswalkers not named Jace.
I have a 360 unpowered cube and run both Tezzerets as well as Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant. I don't think it would see much play without the explicit artifact deck support. I don't have a great read on its performance, but am very happy to see my players draft around an archetype more often since I increased support.
Interesting side question: for those supporting the artifact deck, how many high-CMC big-payoff artifact creatures do you play and at what size? I've got Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. I don't think I need more, but a few players have bemoaned not seeing the payoff cards when trying to build the deck.
I play Tezz and support the artifact.dec in my 540 powered cube. It's the centerpiece for that archetype, but it's also playable on its own with even a small number of toolbox artifacts and a couple of mana rocks. I don't play Time Vault.
My cube is likely adding planeswalkers in the next major (non EM release) edit. Both versions of Tezz will be going in. I support artifact.dec and Tezz is going to boost that archetype hugely.
What was said about Sea Gate Oracle? Oracle actually sees a lot of play in my cube successfully, while Delver is inconsistent even in decks designed around it.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
They're both cards that shine with consistency, but struggle with the random nature of the cube.
A million times this. Delver has just never been impressive to me for cube.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
In regular limited the best command, and while not the best command in cube it still does work.
-Do you play Profane Command? Does it feel like it's time has passed? If not what size would you play it at?
-Pros and cons of the card?
-What is the meaning of life? Why do we get out of bed every day?
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Looking forward to the discussion on it!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
That said, we are going to test a custom double flip-faced Delver//Researcher//Docent//Iteration card, which may be powerful enough and will hopefully lead to cool stories.
Edit: Whoops, the thread title was still on Delver, when I commented. Profane Command thoughts incoming.
Edit 2:
- Yes. Nope. Not 360, almost certainly at 540+, 450 is most dependent on factors beyond pure powerlevel.
- It has great flexibility, but doesn't get dinged that much on mana efficiency for it. The two "ideal" modes are value -- zombify+removal -- and finisher -- life loss and fear. That said, it is great that you can get incidental damage (either direct of via fear) tacked on to your removal if you don't have a dead guy or tacked onto your resurrect if they don't have dudes. The cons are that it is pretty low impact at cmc 4 or less, the fear mode is much worse vs black (duh), and it's only reliable defensive mode is pretty meh vs token swarms. If you have no creatures the only mode is lose+removal, at which point it is overcosted. As a sorcery, it also doesn't play that well with countermagic, so it isn't particularly strong in more blue based controlling decks.
- Life has no meaning, and we get out of bed every day in the expectation that not doing so would be less fun in the long run.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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I'm removing card names from the thread title until my vacation's over, that should help prevent overlap.
As for Profane Command, I just cut it to make room to try Sinkhole. Profane Command is decent value, but requires an awful lot of mana to do anything. If Sinkhole proves too narrow, I may bring it back, but for now I think it just misses the cut for me.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
This also summarizes Profane Command for me. It doesn't see play in every deck, but it tends to win the game whenever somebody casts it.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Are you seeking more artifact.dec support? (Sorry.) Well I have tez the card for you! (You know, phoenetically, like, Tez=Just if you pronounce it like 'jezt'? Ok seriously Ill stop.) You'll be plainly walking to your mailbox to pick yours up! (Wtf am I even saying.)
-Do you run Tezz? What size is your cube?
-Do you explicitly support artifact.dec or like it as generally good card?
-Do you also run Time Vault?
-What are you seeking for your next meal?
-WHY CAN'T I STOP.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
I think it's generally good if your artifact density is above a certain level. If you lack artifacts, he's going to struggle, and really rely on his -X ability.
No, I don't have one.
Sweet ambrosia, the nectar of the gods.
Because we're all addicts here.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Interesting side question: for those supporting the artifact deck, how many high-CMC big-payoff artifact creatures do you play and at what size? I've got Sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Myr Battlesphere, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. I don't think I need more, but a few players have bemoaned not seeing the payoff cards when trying to build the deck.
I do not have a Time Vault.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!