So this has to be the most widely cubed card of all time, right? It's a staple effect that every red deck from the beginning of time can find a use for. It belongs in lists of all sizes, rarities, budgets, and eras. It's fair enough that you can't reasonably ban it, but it has never been supplanted and probably never will be.
I can't think of another spell that meets all those criteria.
That's a really interesting metric, and Cube Tutor's list of Top Cards by Cube Count reads like a list of budget cube all stars with cards like Lightning Bolt, Evolving Wilds, Vampire Nighthawk, Swords to Plowshares, and Counterspell all at the top. Then somehow Ow is #4 on the list.
What the heck is going on there?
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That's a really interesting metric, and Cube Tutor's list of Top Cards by Cube Count reads like a list of budget cube all stars with cards like Lightning Bolt, Evolving Wilds, Vampire Nighthawk, Swords to Plowshares, and Counterspell all at the top. Then somehow Ow is #4 on the list.
What the heck is going on there?
Seems to be an error with the bulk uploader. Here is what the admin said about it:
"please ignore ‘Ow’ which only features so frequently because it is often picked up from mis-spellings through the Bulk Uploader"
As we've done with dual land cycles, it clearly makes sense to discuss Signets as a cycle. Besides the inclusion of actual power, the inclusion of the full cycle of Signets in the MTGO Vintage Cube and as opposed to none in the Legacy Cube is one of the major distinguishing features between the two cubes. I know there are varying opinions on this board about whether to include all, some, or no Signets as well as whether they're good enough, or even too powerful for cube.
Aesthetically speaking, all editions of ally colored Signets use the same art, but Commander 2015 included new art for all of the enemy colored Signets.
I run the signets that fit the control colors red/blue, white/blue, and I think blue/black. If my cube gets larger I will probably include all 10. I think they are so powerful, and almost every deck wants them. They are hard to use correctly because you have to remember to hold mana for them.
Some archetypes really need access to mana rocks, which has made me less inclined to put these in place of mind stone type rocks, since people fight over them.
I have run all ten, before I powered my cube. They're excellent color fixing and I'm always a bit taken aback when people talk about them being too fast for their cube. I find it incredibly fun to drop a signet turn two and then turn three drop a 4CMC creature or spell. I understand some people like slower environments though.
If you're looking for solid fixing beyond your lands the Signets are an inexpensive and solid choice.
Signets are great and a lot stronger than people in general give them credit for. I try to limit my mana rocks in my unpowered cube because of how strong ramp is in non-green colors. I like running them as parts of the guild as it makes you really prioritize which guilds should be receiving what.
This topic is very relevant to me because I just cut Rakdos and Orzhov Signets from my Cube. Without these signets I still run 23 mana rocks and 27 green cards that ramp. It became apparent that the non-blue signets were a little too narrow in the draft. I still run Dimir, Azorius, and Izzet.
Pretty much any 2-cmc mana rock is always going to be viable in cube. However, I'm not a fan of dedicating slots to mana rocks that tap for a speicific color or colors, it's either colorless, all 5-colors, or Felwar Stone type effects for me. At 540 I don't need the signets.
I tried running a motley collection of colorless and 5 color rocks like Prismatic Lens, Felwar Stone, Guardian Idol, and Chromatic Lantern but they just didn't see much play. Once I replaced them with the full cycle of Signets I started to see people getting excited to play fattie-ramp, Tinker, Upheaval, and Wildfire decks. Since each Signet can ramp and fix for either of two colors, individually each one is not really all that narrow so even the ones from guilds that aren't traditional control guilds still see plenty of play. Rakdos Signet and Boros Signet get played in Wildfire decks as well as some control decks, and most green decks are happy to have a green signet as a pseudo-Rampant Growth. I feel like adding the complete cycle has done more to make my cube run smoothly than any other single decision I've made in managing my cube.
Since they do have such a profound impact on the environment of an unpowered cube, it's also very important to include cheap artifact removal. Disenchant, Naturalize, Manic Vandal, Phyrexian Revoker, and Uktabi Orangutan become critical inclusions in any cube running them all.
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That is odd to hear that the Signets work better for you than the colorless/5-color rocks. Maybe this is player perception, and when they see their colors they get more excited? In general I find that the colorless/5-color rocks are more interesting to draft because there is more competition for them in the pick order. Rakdos Signet, for example, may be great for one of the eight players at the table that is playing a non-aggro RBx deck. There is no denying that the non-blue signets are still good cards - they are just more narrow on the pick spectrum and start to get redundant when you have 20+ other, more flexible ramp artifacts.
Signets are good. I choose to run the generic rocks instead though, so that A) their powerlevel is more evenly distributed in any deck that wants to take one, and B) so I can run the exact number of them that I want. The Signets wound up playing more like guild cards since their power was heavily wrapped-up in their color relevance to the deck (for us anyways). So we just opt to use the colorless ones and currently aren't playing Signets. We also prefer the Talisman to the Signets in the color combinations they're available in.
I'd play the five allied Talismans with the five enemy signets first, especially if you cube cards with colorless costs. We have a large cube and therefore on top of all the blue talismans, the blue signets and most colorless/rainbow mana rocks we play Sky Diamond, which has seen significantly more play than Boros and Rakdos signet ever did, combined (no Wildfire support).
That is odd to hear that the Signets work better for you than the colorless/5-color rocks. Maybe this is player perception, and when they see their colors they get more excited? In general I find that the colorless/5-color rocks are more interesting to draft because there is more competition for them in the pick order.
When it comes to the 2CMC generic rocks, most of the ones that produce colored mana come with obnoxious drawbacks like Sphere of the Suns or Felwar Stone that make them a lot less reliable. Even Prismatic Lens can be awkward because it can't ramp and fix at the same time. The colorless ones often don't provide enough extra upside to make up for the fact that they can't fix at all. Mind Stone is the only colorless 2CMC rock that taps for a single C that I run, and Coldsteel Heart is the only multicolored 2CMC rock that I prefer to the Signets.
At other CMC slots, mana rocks that tap for more like Worn Powerstone and Gilded Lotus as well as Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond
I choose to run the generic rocks instead though, so that A) their powerlevel is more evenly distributed in any deck that wants to take one, and B) so I can run the exact number of them that I want.
I'll admit that B is a valid concern for me. In order to preserve color balance, I feel like I need to run the complete cycle of Signets in order to consider them colorless instead of guild spells. Coldsteel Heart and Everflowing Chalice probably are better individual cube cards than Rakdos Signet or Selesnya Signet, but holistically having the whole cycle has paid enough dividends that I consider that a small price to pay.
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Signets are good, but I like the generic mana rocks more. I think my players are put off by the specific color combinations on them and won't really ever play them in off-color decks. Because of that the non-blue ones basically never saw play. I did like running the blue versions before the guilds got so packed with great cards. I also would run Talismen over Signets if I were to include anything like this again in their respective guilds, just because of the colorless requirements currently in the cube.
Signets ruin card diversity: it's a 10 card non-land cycle and each signet essentially does the same thing. Signets are good cards, but they kind of skew the individuality of what is traditionally a singleton format. Having Kodama's Reach / Cultivate or Searing Spear / Lightning Strike is one thing, but 10 cards being identical to each other is a bit too much for my tastes.
I'm going on vacation again to visit friends and family in the US and Canada, so this will be the last card I post for about a month. Don't worry, though, Salmo has agreed again to fill in while I'm gone with cards (and possibly other things) for the community to evaluate. Salmo lives on the same side of the International Date Line as most of the rest of you, so he'll usually be posting when he gets off work after 5pm Eastern Standard Time, as opposed to after 5pm Seoul Standard Time when I usually post, so his first card will take a bit longer to go up and then it should be up on a pretty regular daily cycle.
Thanks again, Salmo!
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I've never been a fan of Delver in cube. It's just too difficult to have it reliably be a 3/2 flyer. I've never had it in my own cube, but I've tried it in the MTGO cubes and seen others draft it there as well. It's usually unimpressive.
I ran Delver for a while, but he's a lot harder to protect/flip in cube and therefore really didn't live up to his potentially-best-creature-ever standard.
Delver is amazing when you cast it turn 1 and transform it then 2, which is almost never. Everything said about Sea Gate Oracle can pretty much be applied to Delver.
Signets ruin card diversity: it's a 10 card non-land cycle and each signet essentially does the same thing. Signets are good cards, but they kind of skew the individuality of what is traditionally a singleton format. Having Kodama's Reach / Cultivate or Searing Spear / Lightning Strike is one thing, but 10 cards being identical to each other is a bit too much for my tastes.
But isn't this true for every dualland cycle? Would you say Shocklands are voring two, because they all do the same? And they aren't the same, because they produce different colors. A on-color signet is better than one, where only one color fits your deck, which is better agin, than an off-color signet.
Lands are a totally different beast here, hence why I specified "non-land" cycle. While signets may tap for different colors of mana, they are fundamentally more the same than dual lands for many reasons:
- Signets can be played in an off-color deck, where a dual land would be strictly worse than a basic
- There are lots of cards that deal with different subtypes of lands: Rolfellos cares about forests, Daze for Islands, Fireblast for Mountains, Snuff Out for Swamps, etc. Signets cannot boast this diversity.
I think we can all agree that duals / fetches / etc cycles are essential to all our cubes, no matter how redundant they are, but we're all going to have a different opinion on wether or not Signets are essential to their own cube. For me, they're not; I felt like they skewed the curve too much as a 10 card cycle and I dealt didn't need them. No particular archetype relied on signets and get took up a lot of cube real estate that I would rather dedicate to other things.
Delver is such a powerful constructed card that performs so much worse in cube that I would go so far as to say that it's a trap in cube, because players who are newer to cube have no way of knowing how much it will perform in a cube environment. It's the only card from Cube Tutor Average 360 that costs less than $2 (usually) that I've deliberately excluded from my list of budget cube staples because I consider it irresponsible to recommend it as a staple to new cube managers.
It might be worth including if you're going particularly deep on the "spells matter" archetype, but anyone building tempo decks in a typical cube is better off getting their 1-drops from white, black, or red. If you really want an aggressive 1-drop in your blue section for tempo decks, cube Cloudfin Raptor or Phantasmal Bear.
Also, apparently the thread on Signets I bumped was in the main forum, so you guys might have missed it. I've deleted that post, so feel free to continue discussion on the Signets here.
I can't think of another spell that meets all those criteria.
EDIT: According to cubetutor, it is. http://www.cubetutor.com/topcards/1
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What the heck is going on there?
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Seems to be an error with the bulk uploader. Here is what the admin said about it:
"please ignore ‘Ow’ which only features so frequently because it is often picked up from mis-spellings through the Bulk Uploader"
Rakdos Signet
So do you rock those Signets or not?
As we've done with dual land cycles, it clearly makes sense to discuss Signets as a cycle. Besides the inclusion of actual power, the inclusion of the full cycle of Signets in the MTGO Vintage Cube and as opposed to none in the Legacy Cube is one of the major distinguishing features between the two cubes. I know there are varying opinions on this board about whether to include all, some, or no Signets as well as whether they're good enough, or even too powerful for cube.
Aesthetically speaking, all editions of ally colored Signets use the same art, but Commander 2015 included new art for all of the enemy colored Signets.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
Some archetypes really need access to mana rocks, which has made me less inclined to put these in place of mind stone type rocks, since people fight over them.
If you're looking for solid fixing beyond your lands the Signets are an inexpensive and solid choice.
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Since they do have such a profound impact on the environment of an unpowered cube, it's also very important to include cheap artifact removal. Disenchant, Naturalize, Manic Vandal, Phyrexian Revoker, and Uktabi Orangutan become critical inclusions in any cube running them all.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
The only ones remaining are Azorius and Dimir, since those are the color pairings I've geared for control and artifacts, respectively.
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Not all the colorless/rainbow rocks above are created equal. I rank Prismatic Lens and Fellwar Stone above nonblue signets and Guardian Idol and Chromatic Lantern below.
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When it comes to the 2CMC generic rocks, most of the ones that produce colored mana come with obnoxious drawbacks like Sphere of the Suns or Felwar Stone that make them a lot less reliable. Even Prismatic Lens can be awkward because it can't ramp and fix at the same time. The colorless ones often don't provide enough extra upside to make up for the fact that they can't fix at all. Mind Stone is the only colorless 2CMC rock that taps for a single C that I run, and Coldsteel Heart is the only multicolored 2CMC rock that I prefer to the Signets.
At other CMC slots, mana rocks that tap for more like Worn Powerstone and Gilded Lotus as well as Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond
I'll admit that B is a valid concern for me. In order to preserve color balance, I feel like I need to run the complete cycle of Signets in order to consider them colorless instead of guild spells. Coldsteel Heart and Everflowing Chalice probably are better individual cube cards than Rakdos Signet or Selesnya Signet, but holistically having the whole cycle has paid enough dividends that I consider that a small price to pay.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
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I'm going on vacation again to visit friends and family in the US and Canada, so this will be the last card I post for about a month. Don't worry, though, Salmo has agreed again to fill in while I'm gone with cards (and possibly other things) for the community to evaluate. Salmo lives on the same side of the International Date Line as most of the rest of you, so he'll usually be posting when he gets off work after 5pm Eastern Standard Time, as opposed to after 5pm Seoul Standard Time when I usually post, so his first card will take a bit longer to go up and then it should be up on a pretty regular daily cycle.
Thanks again, Salmo!
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
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I ran Delver for a while, but he's a lot harder to protect/flip in cube and therefore really didn't live up to his potentially-best-creature-ever standard.
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
Lands are a totally different beast here, hence why I specified "non-land" cycle. While signets may tap for different colors of mana, they are fundamentally more the same than dual lands for many reasons:
- Signets can be played in an off-color deck, where a dual land would be strictly worse than a basic
- There are lots of cards that deal with different subtypes of lands: Rolfellos cares about forests, Daze for Islands, Fireblast for Mountains, Snuff Out for Swamps, etc. Signets cannot boast this diversity.
I think we can all agree that duals / fetches / etc cycles are essential to all our cubes, no matter how redundant they are, but we're all going to have a different opinion on wether or not Signets are essential to their own cube. For me, they're not; I felt like they skewed the curve too much as a 10 card cycle and I dealt didn't need them. No particular archetype relied on signets and get took up a lot of cube real estate that I would rather dedicate to other things.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
It might be worth including if you're going particularly deep on the "spells matter" archetype, but anyone building tempo decks in a typical cube is better off getting their 1-drops from white, black, or red. If you really want an aggressive 1-drop in your blue section for tempo decks, cube Cloudfin Raptor or Phantasmal Bear.
Also, apparently the thread on Signets I bumped was in the main forum, so you guys might have missed it. I've deleted that post, so feel free to continue discussion on the Signets here.
450 card Peasant cube thread. Draft it here.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!