It's OK, but I don't have room at 450. If I didn't support reanimator, I might run it over Wild Mongrel or Noose Constrictor but those cards do too much work in my cube.
A powerful angel that presents a 4 turn clock all by herself. She's solid in most decks white wants to run. She shines in a WG token shell. I think she's a respectable inclusion in 360 cubes, but not a stone cold staple. Lists 450+ should strongly consider her and 540+ should almost definitely be running her. Although...
White cards with CMC 4 has been the most competitive slot in cubes for a long time and I still believe it is today. We recently got Serra the Benevolent in MH1. How would you rank the white 4 drops in cube and which do you run in your list(s)? And what do you think about Sublime Archangel?
Do you agree or disagree white 4 drops is the slot with the most competition? If not, what is?
Archangel was a 4cc creature that died to Bolt and had far too small an impact on an empty board, especially for a creature that was bad in the face of cheap chump-blockers. This would not crack a 720 list for me if I managed one.
I agree that the 4cc white noncreature slot is arguably the single most stacked slot in the cube. The creature side of that curve leaves something to be desired though.
I think sublime was and still is an underrated card. It is a great aggro curve-topper. It does a substantial amount of damage the turn you play it, and it is a quick clock by itself. That said, we have come to an age that at 720 this is less strong than the average four drop. We still like it a lot, but I can see why people with smaller cubes may not find a place for it. And yes, Serra is the better card.
I really liked this card because of its explosive power ... but I think wtwlf points out some of her major weaknesses. Overall, it was either winning the game or doing basically nothing, and honestly I don't like those kinds of dynamics in cube.
For me to bring her back into my list, I would first need a lot more ways to protect her, whether it be combat tricks that grant protection, or static effects to make her harder to deal with. More anthems could make it easier to take her out of bolt range, Shalai, Voice of Plenty could protect her, even Tajic, Legion's Edge and The Wanderer can help out (if I felt the need to include her) ... but the more I think about it, I just don't really need this card. I'd rather have something that helps build upon archetype themes without having to rely on specific circumstances.
I miss this thread. I understand that it's a quite a lot of work to keep trucking, but I love seeing cards that I don't see often, or hearing more general thoughts on Cube staples too.
I clicked through on random cards on Scryfall until I saw a discussion-worthy card: Char
Dealing 4 instant-speed damage to any target gives red a lot of reach and can take care of quite a few creatures that usual burn cannot. The two damage is often inconsequential, but sometimes I just find that costing 3 CMC is a little too much for an aggressive red deck.
How would you rank red's burn options in cube? Lightning Bolt is certainly on top!
Char is one of the weaker options in my 450 but 4 damage to any target at instant speed for 3 is still nonexistent outside of this card so I've kept it in.
I was thinking the other day about replacing it with staggershock - how much do y'all value the ability to kill a 3- or 4-toughness creature vs. ability to split targets and not take 2 damage?
Char goes to the face 90% of the time in my experience, though sometimes you need to kill that Brimaz or Hero of Bladehold. But I think the main advantage Char has over Staggershock is if you topdeck char when the Opponent is at 3 or 4, they don't get another turn, where Staggershock does give them another turn to gain some life or win. Staggershock is nice for spells matter interactions, though.
if you topdeck char when the Opponent is at 3 or 4, they don't get another turn, where Staggershock does give them another turn to gain some life or win
I prefer Staggershock to Char. Staggershock goes in more decks and is still serviceable in burn. It's better in control decks since you could get a 2 for 1 and it's better in spells matter decks since you get 2 spells. I run Staggershock in my 360 unpowered and it's probably one of the less commonly run cards at that size, but my playgroup and I like it.
It's definitely the worst burn spell we play at 360 powered, but good burn is hard to come by and we've found char to be better than the Incinerate variants, Staggershock, magma jet, Arc Lightning variants, Collective Defiance and Stoke the flames. The fact that it offers 4 splashable instant speed damage in just one card makes it good enough for both red aggro mainboards and other red deck's sideboards to bring in vs 4 health creatures and planeswalkers.
With that said, we still haven't tried forked bolt or risk factor in cube, but I have played the latter in standard to great results so maybe its worth a shot but then again maybe its just too clunky. I wish the burn was better, and not a day goes by that I don't think about taking it out for fire // ice and just hoping nobody notices that the cube now has an extra blue card, and a powerful one at that.
It's definitely the worst burn spell we play at 360 powered, but good burn is hard to come by and we've found char to be better than the Incinerate variants, Staggershock, magma jet, Arc Lightning variants, Collective Defiance and Stoke the flames. The fact that it offers 4 splashable instant speed damage in just one card makes it good enough for both red aggro mainboards and other red deck's sideboards to bring in vs 4 health creatures and planeswalkers.
With that said, we still haven't tried forked bolt or risk factor in cube, but I have played the latter in standard to great results so maybe its worth a shot but then again maybe its just too clunky. I wish the burn was better, and not a day goes by that I don't think about taking it out for fire // ice and just hoping nobody notices that the cube now has an extra blue card, and a powerful one at that.
Interesting that you find it better than Magma Jet - I think that's one of red's best burn spells!
I like Char just fine; it's a solid burn spell. I'm currently playing Staggershock over it though, since it can both represent card advantage and it gives me multiple spell triggers for my spell decks ...despite Char being better in a lot of situations.
Interesting that you find it better than Magma Jet - I think that's one of red's best burn spells!
2 mana for 2 damage was just too inefficient, and the scry wasn't especially useful on a card that was usually cast on the exact turn you won the game. Our format is pretty fast, so being able to deliver as much damage as fast as possible is really valuable under the condition that the card isn't unplayably bad outside of red aggro (with the obvious exception of Fireblast, shrine of burning rage and Sulfuric Vortex, because they're just too efficient and vital to red's ability to close out games quickly to exclude, at least in our cube).
I really hope they print more shocks with upside. 2 damage is a pretty solid baseline as long as it has some extra lategame value strapped onto it somewhere, and wizards obviously doesn't ever want to print anymore good 1 mana 3 damage spells, so I think its the best we can expect to see going forward.
Burn that costs 3 mana is not all that attractive. I've replaced Char with a cheaper burn spell at some point in the past and was happy with the change. Char also has a downside of being undesirable by control decks.
I had too many instances where I really needed Staggershock to deal four damage in one punch, so I cut it. Char may be most desirable by burn shells, but it's still servicable in midrange or even control decks. I prefer the one shot four damage rather than the two shot 2/2 damage.
This guy was deemed a stone cold staple when it came out a little while ago. It's considered the best of the 187 creatures (a term I dislike because its meaning is impossible to decipher for people who aren't in the know). Anyway, it's certainly a good card and cubeable at any size. I actually cut it from my 360 unpowered list recently because I liked all my black 4 drops better (I also don't like its art):
What are your thoughts on Ravenous Chupacabra? Is it a auto-include for every cube? Where do you think it ranks among black 4 drops? Is it a "mistake" for me to cut it, especially in favor of the above cards?
Bonus question: What is objectively the best card you don't run in your cube for personal tastes (not due to power level, price, or feel bad moments)?
And the first card of the 20's will be *drum roll" shriekmaw.
A long time cube staple but as both removal and creatures have gotten more efficient, the premium you are paying for shriekmaws flexibility gets steeper and steeper.
It's your worst 2 CMC removal spell stapled to a creature that has been outclassed.
Definitly still a solid card, and one that I think will stick around based on its reputation but I have made the cut and not looked back.
BONUS QUESTION: When is the last time an audible shriek left your maw?
Positives
Negatives
What do you all think of the Greenseeker? What green 2 drops do you run over it?
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
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I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Sublime Archangel
A powerful angel that presents a 4 turn clock all by herself. She's solid in most decks white wants to run. She shines in a WG token shell. I think she's a respectable inclusion in 360 cubes, but not a stone cold staple. Lists 450+ should strongly consider her and 540+ should almost definitely be running her. Although...
White cards with CMC 4 has been the most competitive slot in cubes for a long time and I still believe it is today. We recently got Serra the Benevolent in MH1. How would you rank the white 4 drops in cube and which do you run in your list(s)? And what do you think about Sublime Archangel?
Do you agree or disagree white 4 drops is the slot with the most competition? If not, what is?
I agree that the 4cc white noncreature slot is arguably the single most stacked slot in the cube. The creature side of that curve leaves something to be desired though.
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For me to bring her back into my list, I would first need a lot more ways to protect her, whether it be combat tricks that grant protection, or static effects to make her harder to deal with. More anthems could make it easier to take her out of bolt range, Shalai, Voice of Plenty could protect her, even Tajic, Legion's Edge and The Wanderer can help out (if I felt the need to include her) ... but the more I think about it, I just don't really need this card. I'd rather have something that helps build upon archetype themes without having to rely on specific circumstances.
I clicked through on random cards on Scryfall until I saw a discussion-worthy card: Char
Dealing 4 instant-speed damage to any target gives red a lot of reach and can take care of quite a few creatures that usual burn cannot. The two damage is often inconsequential, but sometimes I just find that costing 3 CMC is a little too much for an aggressive red deck.
How would you rank red's burn options in cube? Lightning Bolt is certainly on top!
[180 classic cube]
true! hadn't thought of that
With that said, we still haven't tried forked bolt or risk factor in cube, but I have played the latter in standard to great results so maybe its worth a shot but then again maybe its just too clunky. I wish the burn was better, and not a day goes by that I don't think about taking it out for fire // ice and just hoping nobody notices that the cube now has an extra blue card, and a powerful one at that.
Interesting that you find it better than Magma Jet - I think that's one of red's best burn spells!
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
2 mana for 2 damage was just too inefficient, and the scry wasn't especially useful on a card that was usually cast on the exact turn you won the game. Our format is pretty fast, so being able to deliver as much damage as fast as possible is really valuable under the condition that the card isn't unplayably bad outside of red aggro (with the obvious exception of Fireblast, shrine of burning rage and Sulfuric Vortex, because they're just too efficient and vital to red's ability to close out games quickly to exclude, at least in our cube).
I really hope they print more shocks with upside. 2 damage is a pretty solid baseline as long as it has some extra lategame value strapped onto it somewhere, and wizards obviously doesn't ever want to print anymore good 1 mana 3 damage spells, so I think its the best we can expect to see going forward.
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Ravenous Chupacabra
This guy was deemed a stone cold staple when it came out a little while ago. It's considered the best of the 187 creatures (a term I dislike because its meaning is impossible to decipher for people who aren't in the know). Anyway, it's certainly a good card and cubeable at any size. I actually cut it from my 360 unpowered list recently because I liked all my black 4 drops better (I also don't like its art):
Bloodline Keeper
Braids, Cabal Minion
Kalitas, traitor of Ghet
Spawn of Mayhem
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Damnation
What are your thoughts on Ravenous Chupacabra? Is it a auto-include for every cube? Where do you think it ranks among black 4 drops? Is it a "mistake" for me to cut it, especially in favor of the above cards?
Bonus question: What is objectively the best card you don't run in your cube for personal tastes (not due to power level, price, or feel bad moments)?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
[180 classic cube]
This, 100%.
Get it back in your cube PrimeNumber!
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
A long time cube staple but as both removal and creatures have gotten more efficient, the premium you are paying for shriekmaws flexibility gets steeper and steeper.
It's your worst 2 CMC removal spell stapled to a creature that has been outclassed.
Definitly still a solid card, and one that I think will stick around based on its reputation but I have made the cut and not looked back.
BONUS QUESTION: When is the last time an audible shriek left your maw?