So I'm trying to wrap my head around all this, and I'm putting it to you guys in the community. What exactly is the hierarchy for our once anemic mono-red 'walkers? And what's the implication of Koth being rated so highly, despite other cards being flashier?
Well, Koth is super good because his #2 ability is a red High Tide, which is pretty good last I checked, and his emblem is amazeballs as it turns your mountains into timmies, and isn't impossible to achieve in a short game. The first ability is respectable.
As much as I love Daretti, Scrap Savant if your cube isn't extremely well set up for a heavy colorless/red artifact theme, he's going to struggle being an odd man out. I don't have him in mine, because I don't have the best artifacts in the world, and it would be a very weak theme in my cube.
As for Chandra, most of her PW cards are a bit overcosted for the effect they give. At least she's not Tybalt, though.
*shrug* Koth is just the best mono-red planeswalker. I don't know what else to tell you, he's just good. Daretti is also very good but much more limited on the number of potential decks. Sarkhan would probably be the best if he costed 4 like those two.
*shrug* Koth is just the best mono-red planeswalker. I don't know what else to tell you, he's just good. Daretti is also very good but much more limited on the number of potential decks. Sarkhan would probably be the best if he costed 4 like those two.
Same list though I'd probably have nalaar = pyromaster (i've cut both but it took me way longer to cut nalaar) Daretti is great, but definitely needs archetype support.
Yeah, my top 4 is also pretty much the same. I can understand people running unpowered cubes sloting Sarkan as second best and Chandra as third in order to make Daretti the #4, but other than that, that ranking is rock solid. And for having tester her for a lot time, I can say that Pyromaster is not that great as well.
I think Flamecaller is miles better than Pyromaster. Flamecaller is a very versatile planeswalker that has virtually no competition in the 6cmc slot after Inferno Titan / Wildfire / Burning of Xinye. Meanwhile, Pyromaster is a middle of the road planeswalker in arguably one of the most competitive slots in the cube.
I feel like it isn't just that Koth is good, the archetypes that are common in the cubes in this forum are very kind to him. The most popular red decks are Aggro/Burn and Wildfire. In Aggro/Burn he swings for 4 the turn he comes down, the only 4cmc walker in red to do that. In Wildfire he has a built in attacker, built in ramp and a reachable ultimate.
Daretti is pretty good but gets bonus points for uniqueness. If you're running red artifact support, you're basically forced to run him. If not, you don't.
Sarkhan is good where Koth is good, but being at 5 is awkward for most of the decks that want to run him. He's also overshadowed by Thundermaw Hellkite.
Flamecaller has little competition and hits hard. The rest are midrange value cards which is kind of a meh spot for red.
4/4s that keep charging in every turn is a huge enough pressure, even if you're in two colors. It makes your opponents unable to safely cast a walker of their own.
It's their face or their ally.
As for Flamecaller, the next best mono red walker IMO (but not far; I really like her). Sarkhan would be my third, then Daretti.
Flamecaller might be better than Dragonspeaker, it is too early to tell.
Why is Koth of the Hammer the best of them? As an aggro curve-topper it is a 4/4 haste that doesn't die to sorcery speed removals, including most sweepers. Even if the mountains die to instant speed removals or in combat, that's pretty great for you, as most aggro decks don't need that 4th land after playing their four drop and you will just get a fresh new 4/4 next turn, while getting closer to ultimate. The emblem was very relevant as a way to win through moat or in general have inevitability in case a 4/4 cannot for some reason attack.
Chandra, Pyromaster is in an awkward position. Her 0 ability wants you to have a low curve, i.e. be aggressive, yet she herself is slow and wants you to gain cumulative advantage. She will see play, but aggro decks have much better four drops, and all other decks cannot use her efficiently. It doesn't help that the red four drop slot is as competitive as it is either.
Not sure what's surprising... I thought Red's 'walker situation was pretty straight-forward.
In my defense, most of these cards have come up within the last 2 years. I think that alone has made the seemingly obvious popularity/quality of the new guys harder to see. It's like being an apolitical person and suddenly finding out that everyone voted for that measure or candidate you thought was gonna lose.
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
In my defense, most of these cards have come up within the last 2 years.
Ya, if you step away from the cube for a number of years and come back, a lot of things can change. Remember what the black 3cc creature pool looked like a few years ago?
In my defense, most of these cards have come up within the last 2 years.
Ya, if you step away from the cube for a number of years and come back, a lot of things can change. Remember what the black 3cc creature pool looked like a few years ago?
Yeah most of the actual black 3-drops are all 4 years old maximum. When you take a look at Pre-Zendikar 720' lists, that seems pretty obvious. From that list below, only Hypnotic Specter and Bone Shredder are still seeing play, and even there, mainly for nostalgic reasons.
Not sure what's surprising... I thought Red's 'walker situation was pretty straight-forward.
This didn't age so well. What led you to axing Koth?? Asking because I'm lowering the overall curve of my cube and I need to cut at least one red four drop. Currently contemplating cutting Koth or getting rid of twin
It didn't? It's 6 years old and it's still pretty accurate, lol.
Since I made that list, we got Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Fiery Confluence (not to mention a slew of new 3-drops that outpace it for damage) and the need for Koth has lessened.
Koth was pushed out of my cube for my red Aristocrats/ Polymorph Package - in particular Purphorous, God of the Forge, Hazoret the Fervent and Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast.
The problem I've found is his -2 counts mountains. If it was "red sources", then this would be ideal for both aggressive decks, big red and polymorph.
I could see Koth make a comeback if there is another cycle of playable Dual Lands or playable fetch lands or the Triome + Mirage Cycles are complete.
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I'll venture a list, though I've certainly not tested most of the cards. Chandra, Acolyte of Flame and Daretti, Scrap Savant are doing wonderfully over here. Tibalt, Rakish Instigator is okay, but not as good as I hoped, and Chandra Nalaar is still doing okay work, but kinda waits to be replaced.
I think Chandra, Torch of Defiance is the only auto include and everything else depends on which archetypes your cube supports - Welder, Big Red, Spells Matter, Polymorph.
There are 2 planeswalkers that have a slight chance of making it back into my cube:
- Koth of the Hammer - As stated above, this may come back into my cube if an extra set of fetches/ dual land fixing is added - This way the add red is stronger and can +3/4 on the following turn for big red archetypes
- Chandra, the Firebrand - I've noticed that the toughness of creatures in my cube have been trending downwards as the power level increase (They become more and more efficient). As a result, the 1 damage will be much more powerful - Similar to Liliana, the Last Hope/ Wreen and Six. The -2 is something that will likely also get stronger as more cards like Miracles, Delve, FireBlast become printed. Fireblast + Copy is a lot of damage
Zariel, Archduke of Avernus / Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker / Chandra, Pyromaster / Chandra, Flamecaller are all fine cards, but competition is just too stiff.
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...WTF?!
So I'm trying to wrap my head around all this, and I'm putting it to you guys in the community. What exactly is the hierarchy for our once anemic mono-red 'walkers? And what's the implication of Koth being rated so highly, despite other cards being flashier?
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
As much as I love Daretti, Scrap Savant if your cube isn't extremely well set up for a heavy colorless/red artifact theme, he's going to struggle being an odd man out. I don't have him in mine, because I don't have the best artifacts in the world, and it would be a very weak theme in my cube.
As for Chandra, most of her PW cards are a bit overcosted for the effect they give. At least she's not Tybalt, though.
My personal ranking:
Same list though I'd probably have nalaar = pyromaster (i've cut both but it took me way longer to cut nalaar) Daretti is great, but definitely needs archetype support.
thats my cube
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
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My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
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My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
Daretti is pretty good but gets bonus points for uniqueness. If you're running red artifact support, you're basically forced to run him. If not, you don't.
Sarkhan is good where Koth is good, but being at 5 is awkward for most of the decks that want to run him. He's also overshadowed by Thundermaw Hellkite.
Flamecaller has little competition and hits hard. The rest are midrange value cards which is kind of a meh spot for red.
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It's their face or their ally.
As for Flamecaller, the next best mono red walker IMO (but not far; I really like her). Sarkhan would be my third, then Daretti.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Koth of the Hammer
Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Chandra, Flamecaller
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
Chandra, Pyromaster
Chandra Nalaar
Chandra, the Firebrand
(the rest is unplayable)
Flamecaller might be better than Dragonspeaker, it is too early to tell.
Why is Koth of the Hammer the best of them? As an aggro curve-topper it is a 4/4 haste that doesn't die to sorcery speed removals, including most sweepers. Even if the mountains die to instant speed removals or in combat, that's pretty great for you, as most aggro decks don't need that 4th land after playing their four drop and you will just get a fresh new 4/4 next turn, while getting closer to ultimate. The emblem was very relevant as a way to win through moat or in general have inevitability in case a 4/4 cannot for some reason attack.
Chandra, Pyromaster is in an awkward position. Her 0 ability wants you to have a low curve, i.e. be aggressive, yet she herself is slow and wants you to gain cumulative advantage. She will see play, but aggro decks have much better four drops, and all other decks cannot use her efficiently. It doesn't help that the red four drop slot is as competitive as it is either.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
02 Daretti, Scrap Savant (This goes down w/ loss of the artifact.dec)
03 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
04 Chandra, Flamecaller
05 Chandra, Pyromaster
06 Chandra Nalaar
07 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh (This goes up w/ heavier mono-red presence)
08 Chandra, the Firebrand
09 Chandra Ablaze
10 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
Not sure what's surprising... I thought Red's 'walker situation was pretty straight-forward.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
In my defense, most of these cards have come up within the last 2 years. I think that alone has made the seemingly obvious popularity/quality of the new guys harder to see. It's like being an apolitical person and suddenly finding out that everyone voted for that measure or candidate you thought was gonna lose.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
Twitter
Youtube Channel
Cube Podcast
Draft my Cube!
Ya, if you step away from the cube for a number of years and come back, a lot of things can change. Remember what the black 3cc creature pool looked like a few years ago?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Flamecaller
Daretti
Dragonspeaker
Pyromaster
Nalaar
Firebrand
Ablaze
Tibalt
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Yeah most of the actual black 3-drops are all 4 years old maximum. When you take a look at Pre-Zendikar 720' lists, that seems pretty obvious. From that list below, only Hypnotic Specter and Bone Shredder are still seeing play, and even there, mainly for nostalgic reasons.
1 Cemetery Reaper
1 Coffin Queen
1 Dauthi Marauder
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Royal Assassin
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This didn't age so well. What led you to axing Koth?? Asking because I'm lowering the overall curve of my cube and I need to cut at least one red four drop. Currently contemplating cutting Koth or getting rid of twin
It didn't? It's 6 years old and it's still pretty accurate, lol.
Since I made that list, we got Chandra, Torch of Defiance and Fiery Confluence (not to mention a slew of new 3-drops that outpace it for damage) and the need for Koth has lessened.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The problem I've found is his -2 counts mountains. If it was "red sources", then this would be ideal for both aggressive decks, big red and polymorph.
I could see Koth make a comeback if there is another cycle of playable Dual Lands or playable fetch lands or the Triome + Mirage Cycles are complete.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
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My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
There are 2 planeswalkers that have a slight chance of making it back into my cube:
- Koth of the Hammer - As stated above, this may come back into my cube if an extra set of fetches/ dual land fixing is added - This way the add red is stronger and can +3/4 on the following turn for big red archetypes
- Chandra, the Firebrand - I've noticed that the toughness of creatures in my cube have been trending downwards as the power level increase (They become more and more efficient). As a result, the 1 damage will be much more powerful - Similar to Liliana, the Last Hope/ Wreen and Six. The -2 is something that will likely also get stronger as more cards like Miracles, Delve, FireBlast become printed. Fireblast + Copy is a lot of damage
Zariel, Archduke of Avernus / Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker / Chandra, Pyromaster / Chandra, Flamecaller are all fine cards, but competition is just too stiff.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i