MTG Salvation

Why is overcoming Titans a hurdle my 3G cards have to get over?

Collected Company in Cube is totally different from the same card in DtK limited. Here in cube it's more like constructed, where the curves are lower. If one first picks it, there's a very good chance of building around it. I like that it plays well, or better in blue. Brainstorm/JtMS, Scroll Rack all help a little.

Let's reserve our judgment until further testing.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Why is overcoming Titans a hurdle my 3G cards have to get over?

Because in any deck that wants this, this is going to be at the top end of the curve. In cube, I like my aggro curve toppers to aggressively push through damage or be a threat that's difficult to answer, not try to play a value game that doesn't solve a board stall. That said, hitting consistently is the bigger issue. You'll need at least 16 targets for this to be worth it, and you'll want them to be of reasonable quality (fewer Elvish Mystics and Den Protectors, more Eternal Witnesses and Goblin Rabblemasters)

How's drafting with it been so far? I've loved it in Standard, but the deckbuilding costs and threat profiles are much different there.

It's a good card for the right deck. So assuming it gets put in decks with 15+ targets, it's very good. It doesn't have a super high MD%, but when it is played, it's a good card.

Quote from TheTennesseeFireman »

Because in any deck that wants this, this is going to be at the top end of the curve.

But the top of my curve in 15+ creature aggro decks don't compete with Titans anyways. I just don't understand why my 3G costed card needs to be Titan-powered to justify its inclusion.

I suppose a better way to put it: How much is hitting Loxodon Smiter and Boon Satyr (one of the best possible hits) going to help your aggressive deck punch through damage when you're facing down Polukranos and a token engine? I'd rather equip one of my existing creatures with a Sword/Wargear, blow through their blockers with Overrun, or cast Surrak 2.0 and go to town. Maybe I'll bestow that Boon Satyr instead.

Essentially, what I'm saying is that Collected Company is a poor finisher for green aggro because it doesn't solve the problem of midrange, which is that deck's biggest weakness.

The card replaces a 4cc creature during deck construction. It doesn't replace Swords, or Overrun effects, or anything of that ilk. Getting two good threats at instant speed is a good way for aggro decks to surprise decks with a board presence they didn't predict. It's one of the better ways to push unexpected damage through, actually. And we cut Surrak for it, because it can provide you with a scary board presence from nowhere, rather than a scary board presence once you already have a board presence. It's a good way to recover from Wraths, and the instant-speed nature of the card can punish midrange strategies for attacking the aggro deck once they think the gamestate calls for it, or be able to make surprise combat blocks that can give aggro and advantage against the midrange attacker. I think it's a much better performer in your bad matchups than the vast majority of 4cc threats this card replaces, because it's a 2-for-1, and it's an instant. Those two factors are important in matchups where beatdown victory is harder and going to value-town is your only real hope (like the midrange matchup, for example).

We have loved this card in UG Edric/Opposition in my Cube group. RG Aggro also didn't mind it, but the other 4-drop Red options are usually superior. GW decks that were playing, say, Mirror Entity really improved when this card was added. Food for thought.

I've been having success with it at 540. In both aggro and creature-heavy midrange decks. I don't think it would survive a cut to a smaller size though, and definitely would not make it at 360.

Six months later, what are people's thoughts on this card? I run a 450 with limited support for green aggro but I'm thinking of tamping down some of the higher end stuff (e.g. Tooth & Nail, Genesis Wave) for a bit more cheap stuff.

Quote from noratora »

Six months later, what are people's thoughts on this card? I run a 450 with limited support for green aggro but I'm thinking of tamping down some of the higher end stuff (e.g. Tooth & Nail, Genesis Wave) for a bit more cheap stuff.

I believe the power of Collected Company lies in running it in 2-3 color ETB decks most notably in Bant colors. Getting Phantasmal Image, Kitchen Finks at instant speed just makes this card nuts. I am not sure how it fares in an aggro shell but playing value creatures with Company can really swing a game in your favor. It's currently my favorite deck to draft in my cube.

The downside to Company is that you really need to pick it in pack 1 or already be in the Reveillark/tempo type deck. Even then it warps your draft around it since you do have to commit fairly into it. Otherwise there will be drafts where this card is just flat unplayable.

Its a solid value card, it goes up in value the earlier you pick it.

Still like the card pretty much. It's just absolutly solid in the grindy agressive decks. But it's true that it gets better and better the earlier you draft it and could feels a bit awkward if you see it later in the draft. At the same time, I think the fact it only cost one single green makes it easily splashable in any decks that play a lot of small value creatures. By experiences, I can tell that there was a lot of situation in which I was drafting a G/X aggro deck and then this card showed up late and still ended up fitting so well and make the cut anyway.

At 540, no way I'm cutting it soon. For 450 I don't know, but it's still seems definitly fine in there too.

Collected Company was discussed here in the Random Cube Card of the Day thread.

I think this is the type of card that makes cube drafting more fun! There are just so many possibilities with ETB creatures, combat situations, etc. The gamble is what makes deck building more critical. Sometimes hitting one valuable target is still worth the card slot.

Does anyone still have this in their cube? I ran a 100k simulations of how often this card hits for fun and plotted the results. (Assumptions of 17 lands, mana through 4 lands, and playing it as soon as you draw it on turn 4 or later but tinkering around don't change the results much)

What I'm interested in is how many 3cmc or less guys are in a typical deck that wants this for cube.

The problem was finding enough good creatures. Not too hard to build a deck with enough targets to avoid whiffing, but making sure that you hit 2 3-drops or business 2-drops was much harder. And there are a lot of decks that just couldn't play it at all.

Powerful card in the right deck, but it was a really narrow subset of decks.

How are people finding Collected Company now?

I have this card on my watch list. I would add this into my cube if one of these four things happen:

1. Another 1 CMC mana dork
2. Good persist creature 3 CMC or lower
3. Good sacrifice outlet 3 CMC or lower.
4. Strong enabler for another creature based combo with 3 CMC or lower.

This is a card I would absolutely love to be playing.

It is probably an interesting card for the persist archetype, but we don’t support that so I can’t say for sure. When we ran Collected Company as a standard green good stuff value card / green aggro support it never worked out because your curve has to be unnaturally low to make it consistent.

I wonder about it too... for us the low-curve jund aggro deck has been happening more lately, has me thinking about coco. May try it out.

Seems like a good time for a Necro, since the last year, starting with Zendikar Rising, has blessed us with amazing low CMC cards and that trend is now continuing with the adversary cycle of new Innistrad. For those in particular, they'd be a reasonable hit in the very late game where you can pay for the EtB "Kicker"

I am going to be bringing it back to my list with the release of MID. In the past it has had a low main deck percentage but has performed well in decks that run it. hoping with all the new low curve stuff that it will make more main decks.

if people can make lurrus companion work surely we can get a high enough 3 drop density for it.

My experience is that Flash is a VERY powerful ability in both limited and Legacy. I've found that a strong flash creature is almost always a 2 for 1 as it allows you to play around sweepers/ ambush attackers very effectively.

- Koilos Roc has always been a 2-for-1 in BRO limited
- Endurance has been incredible strong in legacy, not just for its incidental graveyard interaction but also for its 3/4 body.

There are several 3-drop creatures that I would be extremely happy even if this was the only target for company. Here are some examples:

1. Body to Ambush Attackers
- Adeline, Resplendent Cathar
- Brimaz, King of Oreskos
- Endurance

2. Instant Speed Flickerwisp
- Flickerwisp
- Guardian of Ghirapur

3. Undercosted/ powerful 3 drops
- White Plume Adventurer
- Knight of the Reliquary
- Grist, the Hunger Tide
- Hullbreacher
- Eternal Witness
- Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
etc.

Hitting one creature isn't ideal, but if I was able to in response to attackers, Collected Company and get a 2 for 1 with Adeline/ Knight of the Reliquary or in response to removal, Collected Company and hit a Flickerwisp, I would be pretty happy. This is also not including the strong potential to dig for combo pieces for Melira/ Heliod/ Spike Feeder etc.

I feel this helps to push Collected Company slightly over the edge for me.