Has there been a thread for this card already? The search function did not find anything.
So, the Zombie Fish is obviously worse than Tasigur. But with how good that card is, could Gurmag Angler have a shot at making mid-sized or larger cubes?
Has there been a thread for this card already? The search function did not find anything.
So, the Zombie Fish is obviously worse than Tasigur. But with how good that card is, could Gurmag Angler have a shot at making mid-sized or larger cubes?
Until you've played with Tasigur a whole bunch, you really don't have a grasp on just how much the second ability makes that card great. The problem with all the other delve creatures (including this one) is that playing it on curve rarely tops a vanilla beater like Plague Sliver, and playing it later for full value is often irrelevant. Tasigur gives you a way to convert that mana advantage into card advantage.
I guess it's not the absolute worst when compared to something like Tombstalker, but it's behind a good number of black delve cards, and there are only so many you want in a cube before they start competing with each other.
Until you've played with Tasigur a whole bunch, you really don't have a grasp on just how much the second ability makes that card great. The problem with all the other delve creatures (including this one) is that playing it on curve rarely tops a vanilla beater like Plague Sliver, and playing it later for full value is often irrelevant. Tasigur gives you a way to convert that mana advantage into card advantage.
I guess it's not the absolute worst when compared to something like Tombstalker, but it's behind a good number of black delve cards, and there are only so many you want in a cube before they start competing with each other.
He needs an ability attached to it, even just trample. Vanilla beaters are not good for anything but maybe Pauper cube, and even then its outclassed.
It's a lot better than hooting mandrells, but it suffers from the same problem all delve cards do in cube - you generally can't fill your graveyard that fast, so you need an effect that's just as good on turn 5+ as on turn 2 or 3. Cruise, dig, & tombstalker are all powerful effects, even late game. A vanilla 5/5 on any turn after 4 is just supremely meh, and turn 4 is probably the BCS for this guy if he's in your opening hand in a normal cube deck.
I bet when a lot of people were commenting on this card in February, they wouldn't have expected that it would see play not only in Modern, but in Legacy... Second opinions?
I think it's still 1 too expensive for powered cubing, but perhaps larger unpowered cubes that originally glanced over it might want to give it another look?
It also depends on how much other delve you're running. You don't want to mix these kinds of cards together, or mix them into the same decks that want to use your graveyard as a resource. Those two factors limit the number of cards like this that you want to include.
I really like this card and its a house in regular limited, but I still think its a keyword or 1 away from being amazing. Larger cubes, I'd say this is a definite include.
I bet when a lot of people were commenting on this card in February, they wouldn't have expected that it would see play not only in Modern, but in Legacy... Second opinions?
Like all delve cards, it is substantially worse in cube than constructed because the average deck doesn't have 10+ fetches and a ton of cheap cantrips. If it costs 4 on average, it is extremely middling, and I don't think most cubes are gonna be seeing it costing way less than 4.
I don't think most cubes are gonna be seeing it costing way less than 4.
According to this logic, most cubes aren't going to see Dig Through Time cost way less than 5. Yet I don't think people run DTT because they intend to cast it for 5.
I don't think most cubes are gonna be seeing it costing way less than 4.
According to this logic, most cubes aren't going to see Dig Through Time cost way less than 5. Yet I don't think people run DTT because they intend to cast it for 5.
Dig through time is still great at 5 mana, especially at opponent's EOT. Angler is only fine at 4 mana on turn 4, and unlike dig, it gets worse and worse as the game goes on, even with the discount.
2-3 mana dig on turn 9 or 10 in a board stall or when you're in topdeck mode is amazing. A 1-mana 5/5 when you don't have a follow play on t10 is pretty middling.
There seems to be a lot of love for this card in the THIS OR THAT thread. Have people changed their minds on this card? Because this thread certainly seems fairly negative.
I have not run this card, but I have a lot of mileage on Tasigur, the Golden Fang at this point. My experience with that card tells me a more expensive version with 1 more power and no second ability would not be very good. Tasigur as a cheap 4/5 beater is usually only OK. He can be chumped and he's very vulnerable to bounce. On an empty board he's great, but that is not the normal scenario. So that second ability is really what makes him good I feel since you can grind out CA with it.
I think alot of people underestimated how easy delve was, and how good cheap creatures are lategame. Just because I have 6 mana, doesn't mean I want to spend 6 mana. I think I'd include the angler if I went up in size, but Tasigur, and Dig are enough for me right now.
5/5 is pretty large and profitably avoids most red removal, and being black means he doesn't die to a certain amount more. Also a single black means it's a threat that is easily splash able and--depending on your delve--is easy to hold mana up to defend. In comparison to non-delve finishers in situations where being able to delve is the better option, Angler is much better. But when your opponent doesn't give a ***** about your vanilla 5/5, he's kind of sucky. Overall a tough card to judge on paper into you see him in a variety of situations.
I think alot of people underestimated how easy delve was, and how good cheap creatures are lategame. Just because I have 6 mana, doesn't mean I want to spend 6 mana. I think I'd include the angler if I went up in size, but Tasigur, and Dig are enough for me right now.
I'm surprised by this. We've had Tombstalker available for years and a lot of lists cut it. I find it hard to believe that one extra B for flying makes that big a difference here.
I guess I was just surprised to see more than one person rate Angler above Kokusho, The Evening Star. That seems crazy to me. Is it just because people haven't played with Kokusho in so long they've forgotten how good it is? Or are contemporary cube lists so drastically departed from what I'm running that I can no longer compare the two (one day this is certainly going to be true, and I'm wondering if that day has finally arrived)?
The problem with this guy is that he's boring and uninspired. No one's ever going to be happy taking this thing, it's the same sort of reason why tarmogoyf isn't a superbomb in any limited format. It'll play fine, but that's not really why we play cube. We play cube to do crazy things that don't normally occur in normal magic, and the angler will never be part of that.
at least in my experience with delve, one colored mana symbol means a lot. I've never liked Tombstalker OR kokusho though.
It really is amazing how much of a difference a mana makes. Not that you can always translate from constructed formats to cube, but there is a reason Angler is the 5/5 of choice in those Modern/Legacy delve-decks and not Tombstalker, even though stalker is the better card once it's on the board.
at least in my experience with delve, one colored mana symbol means a lot. I've never liked Tombstalker OR kokusho though.
It really is amazing how much of a difference a mana makes. Not that you can always translate from constructed formats to cube, but there is a reason Angler is the 5/5 of choice in those Modern/Legacy delve-decks and not Tombstalker, even though stalker is the better card once it's on the board.
Tasigur is cast as a one mana cost creature every time in my cube, with counter spell mana up, or removal mana for the opponents threat, or activating his ability, Evaluating it in its ACS is kinda dumb for delve cards, if no one ever uses it for its ACS, frequently dig is a UU spell. Looking at it in that lens, Tombstalker costs twice as much mana as gurmag angler, and all you get is flying.
Has there been a thread for this card already? The search function did not find anything.
So, the Zombie Fish is obviously worse than Tasigur. But with how good that card is, could Gurmag Angler have a shot at making mid-sized or larger cubes?
Bad card is bad. Common garbage.
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I guess it's not the absolute worst when compared to something like Tombstalker, but it's behind a good number of black delve cards, and there are only so many you want in a cube before they start competing with each other.
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He needs an ability attached to it, even just trample. Vanilla beaters are not good for anything but maybe Pauper cube, and even then its outclassed.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
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Or like quadruples of cantrips, tripples of fetch lands... Simulating a constructed environment. Something pretty nutty.
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It also depends on how much other delve you're running. You don't want to mix these kinds of cards together, or mix them into the same decks that want to use your graveyard as a resource. Those two factors limit the number of cards like this that you want to include.
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thats my cube
Like all delve cards, it is substantially worse in cube than constructed because the average deck doesn't have 10+ fetches and a ton of cheap cantrips. If it costs 4 on average, it is extremely middling, and I don't think most cubes are gonna be seeing it costing way less than 4.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
According to this logic, most cubes aren't going to see Dig Through Time cost way less than 5. Yet I don't think people run DTT because they intend to cast it for 5.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Dig through time is still great at 5 mana, especially at opponent's EOT. Angler is only fine at 4 mana on turn 4, and unlike dig, it gets worse and worse as the game goes on, even with the discount.
2-3 mana dig on turn 9 or 10 in a board stall or when you're in topdeck mode is amazing. A 1-mana 5/5 when you don't have a follow play on t10 is pretty middling.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
I have not run this card, but I have a lot of mileage on Tasigur, the Golden Fang at this point. My experience with that card tells me a more expensive version with 1 more power and no second ability would not be very good. Tasigur as a cheap 4/5 beater is usually only OK. He can be chumped and he's very vulnerable to bounce. On an empty board he's great, but that is not the normal scenario. So that second ability is really what makes him good I feel since you can grind out CA with it.
But maybe others have different experiences?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
thats my cube
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I'm surprised by this. We've had Tombstalker available for years and a lot of lists cut it. I find it hard to believe that one extra B for flying makes that big a difference here.
I guess I was just surprised to see more than one person rate Angler above Kokusho, The Evening Star. That seems crazy to me. Is it just because people haven't played with Kokusho in so long they've forgotten how good it is? Or are contemporary cube lists so drastically departed from what I'm running that I can no longer compare the two (one day this is certainly going to be true, and I'm wondering if that day has finally arrived)?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
thats my cube
It really is amazing how much of a difference a mana makes. Not that you can always translate from constructed formats to cube, but there is a reason Angler is the 5/5 of choice in those Modern/Legacy delve-decks and not Tombstalker, even though stalker is the better card once it's on the board.
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Tasigur is cast as a one mana cost creature every time in my cube, with counter spell mana up, or removal mana for the opponents threat, or activating his ability, Evaluating it in its ACS is kinda dumb for delve cards, if no one ever uses it for its ACS, frequently dig is a UU spell. Looking at it in that lens, Tombstalker costs twice as much mana as gurmag angler, and all you get is flying.
thats my cube