Alright I added all the goodies (although not yet reflected on Cube Cobra). I think it will be up to me to win with this archetype to show my spiky group it’s viable. And maybe it turns out it’s not, but we’ll see.
Worst case maybe we’ll learn to appreciate Life from the Loam which will make wtwlf happy! Haha.
I do want to add something - Exploration has been fairly decent in testing. On paper its bad card, but 3-4 CMC has been way too strong, anything that can help consistent jump curve has just been insane.
Its 60-70% a bad Mox Diamond in land heavy decks and 30-40% strong enabler with Draw-7/ Land Recursion in land synergy/ UB storm decks. (if you have 4+ ways to take advantage of this - Land Recursion, Draw 7, Smokestack etc. in addition to strong tempo based 3 drops - Tireless Tracker, Courser, Oko, Uro etc.).
I wouldn't recommend it if you don't support both a small lands package + BU Untap storm. (In other words, if you have Fastbond/ Heartbeat/ Life from the Loam/ Wreen and Six in your cube, I think this is a fine backup enabler).
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I do want to add something - Exploration has been fairly decent in testing. On paper its bad card, but 3-4 CMC has been way too strong, anything that can help consistent jump curve has just been insane.
Its 60-70% a bad Mox Diamond in land heavy decks and 30-40% strong enabler with Draw-7/ Land Recursion in land synergy/ UB storm decks. (if you have 4+ ways to take advantage of this - Land Recursion, Draw 7, Smokestack etc. in addition to strong tempo based 3 drops - Tireless Tracker, Courser, Oko, Uro etc.).
I wouldn't recommend it if you don't support both a small lands package + BU Untap storm. (In other words, if you have Fastbond/ Heartbeat/ Life from the Loam/ Wreen and Six in your cube, I think this is a fine backup enabler).
I agree, I also like Exploration. That type of effects have really increased in value with the draw/sac lands. And Exploration works almost better than Fastbond with fetches + gy recursion as you don't have to take as much damage. Certainly Fastbond is still a better card overall, and I find it interesting that so few people run that card especially in lists with Crucible, Ramunap, Loam, Smokestack, Braids, Draw 7s. Even without all of those cards, it can still be fine in a midrange deck that wants to get to 3-5 mana ASAP.
My group tested this archetype / package quite a bit on MTGO over the pst couple weeks, and I also watched several CalebD streams of strong Depths and Field of the Dead decks. I think it’s much better than it used to be, and we’re excited to support it moving forward.
I love this archetype. It doesn't come together too often, but when it does, it's powerful, unique and doesn't require THAT much real estate to support.
Fastbond/zuran orb/crucible of worlds combo
Fastbond -> draw 7s/Ramp
Fastbond + Exploration + lots of utility lands/courser of kruphix/oracle of mul daya value ramp
Dark/Depths thespian stage + crop rotation + elvish reclaimer + knight of the reliquary
You can blend all sorts of payoffs like that. Strip mine is a big pull to start off doing land shenanigans, and the rest often follows.
There were some discussions in the This/ That discussion over the lands archetype, regarding Titania. I'm wondering if anyone here has any feedback for Valakut Exploration.
It's seen occasional legacy play, it's a card I could see play out fairly well in this style of archetype that would like to grind advantage and it can be used it fuel itself.
Valakut Exploration is only good with effects that let you play multiple lands in a turn. This lets you chain lands off the top of your deck, but with only one landdrop per turn, exiling a land is almost a total blank. Also, The Flux exists now as an extremely strong version of the repeated "exile top card, you may play it this turn" effect, and I don't think even large cubes can fit multiple cards like that.
Valakut Exploration is only good with effects that let you play multiple lands in a turn. This lets you chain lands off the top of your deck, but with only one landdrop per turn, exiling a land is almost a total blank. Also, The Flux exists now as an extremely strong version of the repeated "exile top card, you may play it this turn" effect, and I don't think even large cubes can fit multiple cards like that.
It's been in & out of our cube for a while (currently in) - also was turned onto it via some legacy lands lists.
Recently we've been going all-in on some of the more questionable extra land drop effects: Azusa, scapeshift, sakura-tribe scout etc. along w/ a few bouncelands to support some of the fringier lands-based strategies and it's been performing pretty well (Jund lands w/ Valakut Awakening got a 3-0 this weekend).
I would like to add that my experience with the introduction of a 4-5c Golas - Omnath - Field of the Dead lands archetype has been healthy to ensure that Triomes are prioritized correctly, especially if there isn't a drafter in that shard.
I would appreciate more cards such as Golas that can take advantage of 5c mana bases.
Ive been liking this deck quite a bit, however I dont play dark depths as its a bit too parasitic for me. Even without those the archetype takes very few additions to create a distinct deck, and it lets green fight on an unfair axis (in addition to cheaty stuff), which adds to the metagame / deckbuilding possibilities a lot.
By far the biggest pull to this deck is strip mine. If I get that early I usually try and go pretty heavy into the land recursion plan and it feels oppressive.
If I dont get strip mine, my second choice is urzas saga. Recurring it a few times gets out of control pretty quickly.
Besides fastbond, loam, w6, ramunap and crucible, the main support cards I play are crop rotation and sylvan scrying. Ive found these to be pretty strong even without the two big payoffs (strip and saga). There are a lot of other good lands, crop rot is usually mana + card advantage/neutral when getting ancient tomb, gaeas cradle, or city of traitors, tolarian academy and also gets wasteland, library, field of the dead, dust bowl, karakas, shelldock isle and some others im sure im forgetting. Crop rot especially feels surprisingly good to cast, even with the card disadvantage built in, as its mana neutral at face value (the land comes in untapped).
Ive also found having a full cycle of manlands / horizon lands helps a lot in providing backups for w6 / crop rot targets.
One thing im considering adding is exploration, as having redundancy for fastbond seems like it would increase the probability of hitting the ceiling of the more combo heavy (stripmine) plans.
I don't think anyone's mentioned Park Map in this thread yet (although there is an SCD), but it's another good one, assuming you're not opposed to un-cards.
I've found these tutors in general to be pretty important for making the archetype viable, since they both increase consistency and frequently wheel to the person drafting the combos, as they are otherwise unplayable.
Worst case maybe we’ll learn to appreciate Life from the Loam which will make wtwlf happy! Haha.
Its 60-70% a bad Mox Diamond in land heavy decks and 30-40% strong enabler with Draw-7/ Land Recursion in land synergy/ UB storm decks. (if you have 4+ ways to take advantage of this - Land Recursion, Draw 7, Smokestack etc. in addition to strong tempo based 3 drops - Tireless Tracker, Courser, Oko, Uro etc.).
I wouldn't recommend it if you don't support both a small lands package + BU Untap storm. (In other words, if you have Fastbond/ Heartbeat/ Life from the Loam/ Wreen and Six in your cube, I think this is a fine backup enabler).
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I agree, I also like Exploration. That type of effects have really increased in value with the draw/sac lands. And Exploration works almost better than Fastbond with fetches + gy recursion as you don't have to take as much damage. Certainly Fastbond is still a better card overall, and I find it interesting that so few people run that card especially in lists with Crucible, Ramunap, Loam, Smokestack, Braids, Draw 7s. Even without all of those cards, it can still be fine in a midrange deck that wants to get to 3-5 mana ASAP.
Its been a very good archetype to support as it increases the pick value for duals, triomes and gold cards, which are frequently the last picks.
Fastbond/zuran orb/crucible of worlds combo
Fastbond -> draw 7s/Ramp
Fastbond + Exploration + lots of utility lands/courser of kruphix/oracle of mul daya value ramp
Dark/Depths thespian stage + crop rotation + elvish reclaimer + knight of the reliquary
You can blend all sorts of payoffs like that. Strip mine is a big pull to start off doing land shenanigans, and the rest often follows.
I've seen it work in multiple cubes
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It's seen occasional legacy play, it's a card I could see play out fairly well in this style of archetype that would like to grind advantage and it can be used it fuel itself.
Yah I could see that. Probably needs another Exploration style effect or Field of the Dead / Strip Mine in order to be viable.
Recently we've been going all-in on some of the more questionable extra land drop effects: Azusa, scapeshift, sakura-tribe scout etc. along w/ a few bouncelands to support some of the fringier lands-based strategies and it's been performing pretty well (Jund lands w/ Valakut Awakening got a 3-0 this weekend).
I would appreciate more cards such as Golas that can take advantage of 5c mana bases.
By far the biggest pull to this deck is strip mine. If I get that early I usually try and go pretty heavy into the land recursion plan and it feels oppressive.
If I dont get strip mine, my second choice is urzas saga. Recurring it a few times gets out of control pretty quickly.
Besides fastbond, loam, w6, ramunap and crucible, the main support cards I play are crop rotation and sylvan scrying. Ive found these to be pretty strong even without the two big payoffs (strip and saga). There are a lot of other good lands, crop rot is usually mana + card advantage/neutral when getting ancient tomb, gaeas cradle, or city of traitors, tolarian academy and also gets wasteland, library, field of the dead, dust bowl, karakas, shelldock isle and some others im sure im forgetting. Crop rot especially feels surprisingly good to cast, even with the card disadvantage built in, as its mana neutral at face value (the land comes in untapped).
Ive also found having a full cycle of manlands / horizon lands helps a lot in providing backups for w6 / crop rot targets.
One thing im considering adding is exploration, as having redundancy for fastbond seems like it would increase the probability of hitting the ceiling of the more combo heavy (stripmine) plans.
I've found these tutors in general to be pretty important for making the archetype viable, since they both increase consistency and frequently wheel to the person drafting the combos, as they are otherwise unplayable.