I'm also not big on this guy for reasons already stated. In particular, his middle mode is just plain bad. 4 mana for trample and lifelink is awful and if you get hit with removal, it's a massive tempo loss (that would be 7 mana invested up to that point all lost to a lightning bolt). This is a pass for me.
Just like putting WWWWWWWW into Student of Warfare to have it die to Bolt in response makes it a terrible card.
Again, you have control over the window in which the abilities are used. You don't have to play bad Magic here. Only use the middle ability when you know it's safe from removal (you can activate it as an instant) or when it's going to immediately bridge to the ultimate. There are a ton of cases where the middle ability is going to be great; even against red. They tap out for something and you EOT give it lifelink and trample. If you can push 1-2 extra points of damage through because of the evasion and gain 3 life in the process, it's worth the mana investment even if it does die when they untap because you just "ate" another burn spell to the face and sped up your clock. And it doesn't cost you any additional cards. But when your opponent gives you a window for EOT level to middle, untap, play land, level to ultimate, that will be just fine against whatever burn spells you were afraid of. And if you think you're going to be brutally punished by removal they have mana for ...DON'T USE THE ABILITY. It's optional, and you can find the ideal place to use it; just like every other card that uses a similar mechanic.
Just like putting WWWWWWWW into Student of Warfare to have it die to Bolt in response makes it a terrible card.
Again, you have control over the window in which the abilities are used. You don't have to play bad Magic here. Only use the middle ability when you know it's safe from removal (you can activate it as an instant) or when it's going to immediately bridge to the ultimate. There are a ton of cases where the middle ability is going to be great; even against red. They tap out for something and you EOT give it lifelink and trample. If you can push 1-2 extra points of damage through because of the evasion and gain 3 life in the process, it's worth the mana investment even if it does die when they untap because you just "ate" another burn spell to the face and sped up your clock. And it doesn't cost you any additional cards. But when your opponent gives you a window for EOT level to middle, untap, play land, level to ultimate, that will be just fine against whatever burn spells you were afraid of. And if you think you're going to be brutally punished by removal they have mana for ...DON'T USE THE ABILITY. It's optional, and you can find the ideal place to use it; just like every other card that uses a similar mechanic.
100% correct. Dont use it in the face of certain death. If you have free mana or they tap out then activate it. If not cast something else. If you dont have anything else and it dies then you havent lost any tempo.
The discussions about activating it at the wrong time are why I love cards like this and FoD. You have to be careful to play them well, but the ceiling is massive if you know what you're doing. (This one actually has no ceiling.)
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
The discussions about activating it at the wrong time are why I love cards like this and FoD. You have to be careful to play them well, but the ceiling is massive if you know what you're doing. (This one actually has no ceiling.)
This card also reminds me of student of warfare. They dont always have a bolt in hand. These cards reward skillful play. And this card is ridiculous in the midgame if your opponent has not answer. It will end the game in a couple of turns.
I don't think it's the same thing though. Student of Warfare is actually who I was comparing this to in my mind when I evaluated it. You pay 3 mana to get a 3/3 first strike. That's solid. Even if you bolt me, I really didn't lose that much. Throwing 5 more mana at him generally only happens late game when he's outlived his usefulness, and the payout is huge if it lands. 4/4 double strike is no joke.
Compare that to Warden and it's just not nearly as lucrative. 3 mana for a vanilla 3/3 is not what I want to be doing in green (having to splash white/black on top of it - if I'm black I'm probably doing graveyard shenanigans and if white I'm some kind of token deck typically). And then tossing another 4 mana for lifelink and trample on the same vulnerable 3/3 body? Yuk. If you get to the final version (13 mana later), sure that's solid (8/8 trample life link), but it's also crazy expensive and it dies to doom blade (or bolt before the ability resolves). Not a fan.
Mana sinks are great. I get that. But the payout has to be worth it. If it's over-costed, it just doesn't matter. Whispers of the Muse is infinite card advantage in theory, but it's so expensive it's basically unplayable. Not suggesting this guy is unplayable, but IMO he's not nearly as good as some of you are suggesting. Again, my opinion.
As far as playing bad magic… you can't know if your opponent has removal. You can try and level this guy up when it seems safe, but that doesn't always work as planned (snuff out, contagion, etc.). In addition, my cube runs a very high amount of removal (creature removal in some form I think is 20% of the cube, maybe slightly higher). Dudes rarely live very long and if I'm going to throw 13 mana at something, it needs protection of some kind. Figure rarely lives past his 2/2 version and I don't think I've ever seen him an 8/8 honestly (and his final version is way more achievable than Warden's).
To be fair Figure needs some combination of WWWWWWW and RRRRRR to be his 8/8 form. This needs a combination of 3BBB or 3WWW which is about a gajillion times easier. Also, you can activate that every turn if you want. Student of Warfare is really good but again WW to reach the second level is substantially more tricky than 1W or 1B. I don't have an issue with it dying to removal in response to six mana, it's probable that I've got good advantage out of the creature already and haven't got anything much else to do with the mana.
I think Fleecemane is indeed the right comparison, and Fleecemane just comes out far ahead, IMO.
A 1/1 for 1 is terrible. A 3/3 for 2 is weak but fringe playable; but adding in the requirement to have fed one mana in previously makes it weak. The 4 mana investment to level it up further is enormous and offers little return.
If you hit 6 mana and can protect this guy while that activation is on the stack, his ultimate payoff isn't any bigger than you get from Scute Mob. I expect most games this card is cast, however, it will either trade early, or it will be bolted in response to the 6 mana activation.
My thoughts as well. The only way I see it being a "better" Cube card is if it also slots well into b/g decks making it more "versatile". Personally, I'm not seeing it. Maybe at >= 450 I dunno.
1) It's a one drop. That's significantly better, even if you need to invest additional mana into it in the future. Figure of Destiny proves this point well enough.
2) Warden goes into more decks. Being able to play this in a straight Golgari deck is a HUGE incentive.
3) There is no ceiling on this guy.
Warden is certainly not strictly better, but I think the pros for it far outweigh the cons.
EDIT:
I think the discussion this card has generated is very valuable for cube managers though. All the comparisons to lots of different cubeable (and not cubeable) cards are great.
Honestly, I think this may be one of the best analytical threads on a card I've ever seen on these boards. This guy has been compared to like 4 different cards, all with great arguments for and against each of them.
I don't think it's the same thing though. Student of Warfare is actually who I was comparing this to in my mind when I evaluated it. You pay 3 mana to get a 3/3 first strike. That's solid. Even if you bolt me, I really didn't lose that much. Throwing 5 more mana at him generally only happens late game when he's outlived his usefulness, and the payout is huge if it lands. 4/4 double strike is no joke.
Compare that to Warden and it's just not nearly as lucrative. 3 mana for a vanilla 3/3 is not what I want to be doing in green (having to splash white/black on top of it - if I'm black I'm probably doing graveyard shenanigans and if white I'm some kind of token deck typically). And then tossing another 4 mana for lifelink and trample on the same vulnerable 3/3 body? Yuk. If you get to the final version (13 mana later), sure that's solid (8/8 trample life link), but it's also crazy expensive and it dies to doom blade (or bolt before the ability resolves). Not a fan.
Mana sinks are great. I get that. But the payout has to be worth it. If it's over-costed, it just doesn't matter. Whispers of the Muse is infinite card advantage in theory, but it's so expensive it's basically unplayable. Not suggesting this guy is unplayable, but IMO he's not nearly as good as some of you are suggesting. Again, my opinion.
As far as playing bad magic… you can't know if your opponent has removal. You can try and level this guy up when it seems safe, but that doesn't always work as planned (snuff out, contagion, etc.). In addition, my cube runs a very high amount of removal (creature removal in some form I think is 20% of the cube, maybe slightly higher). Dudes rarely live very long and if I'm going to throw 13 mana at something, it needs protection of some kind. Figure rarely lives past his 2/2 version and I don't think I've ever seen him an 8/8 honestly (and his final version is way more achievable than Warden's).
This sums up my thoughts quite well. The mana sink has to be worth it.
This doesn't compare well to figure, because Figure's second level ability is very attainable and very good (boosts it out of bolt range and gives it an additional 2 power to boot.
It doesn't compare well to Student of Warfare, because student's 1st level up is better, and you can just sink extra mana here or there into his ability. Student makes sure you're never wasting mana.
Now both of those cards are easy includes, so this guy doesn't have to be as good as them to merit inclusion necessarily. He may be good enough despite not being as good as the comparison cards.
[quote from="ahadabans »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/new-card-discussion/583280-frf-warden-of-the-first-tree?comment=64"][quote from="Goodking »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/card-and-archetype-discussion/new-card-discussion/583280-frf-warden-of-the-first-tree?comment=59"]To be fair Figure needs some combination of WWWWWWW and RRRRRR to be his 8/8 form. This needs a combination of 3BBB or 3WWW which is about a gajillion times easier. Also, you can activate that every turn if you want. Student of Warfare is really good but again WW to reach the second level is substantially more tricky than 1W or 1B. I don't have an issue with it dying to removal in response to six mana, it's probable that I've got good advantage out of the creature already and haven't got anything much else to do with the mana.
You bring up a good point I glossed a bit. Warden's ultimate is easier to pay for than Figure due to color restrictions, that's true. In the end though, I don't think it matters. Neither scenario is going to happen IMO. Again, I've never seen Figure an 8/8 ever. And he sees a lot of play. I think you have to judge these guys like you would a walker - not on their ultimate but on abilities before that - and in the case of Figure his earlier modes are just way better. He's also in a color combination that wants an aggressive dude like that, so he feels a lot more appealing. If true green aggro (not green in support mode) becomes a thing, I might have a different opinion. But for now, I don't think Warden is even close to Figure.
The comparison is equally bad (if not worse) with student. His ultimate actually DOES happen occasionally. It's rare of course, but the mana investment is considerably smaller in aggregate (8 mana versus 11 for figure and 13 for warden). And it can be paid for in installments unlike the all or nothing Figure and Warden. That's really the key I think.
Having to pay Warden (and even Figure's) costs as lump sums make them weaker than leveling up even if level up is a sorcery. Or at least I've personally found that to be true. I have no issue throwing spare mana at Student when I have it. One mana here and one mana there is fine - what else can I do with it (usually nothing). But it is often hard to find even 3 mana for Figure's second ability (at least 3 mana I want to dedicate to make him a 4/4 at that point in the game). I'd almost always rather be casting something from my hand unless I'm trying to bait removal and/or force the wrath.
Ya, I've seen Figure 'ultimate' once in several years of cubing, and it's still fantastic. Having a guaranteed 2/2 attacker on T2 with the potential to get to 4/4 for no additional cards invested is great. FWIW, I've seen Student of Warfare 'ultimate' very few times as well. But I can happily say that Warden is going to go ultimate much more often. Possibly multiple times in single games. Even in my cube which is pretty fast. Having the ability to create a major threat from an existing smaller one, without sinking extra cards and at instant speed if necessary, makes them both comfortably 360 worthy if you want the effects and they fit what you're trying to do with the colours. Same with Student, who like yourself may be my overall favourite of the three, but there's not a great deal in it. I also think I slightly prefer Figure to this new card, but again, it still think it's plenty good enough. Green is also very much an aggro support colour in my cube too, but I have the better one drops and the stuff that is useful in other decks too and I think this falls into that bracket.
I suppose green typically has extra mana, so maybe I'm discounting how often the green player will have 4 or 6 mana lying around that they can spend and not care about losing to a bolt. Warden certainly becomes a really nasty creature if you go the distance. I can't argue that. And as you alluded, it's last ability is repeatable too. Fair enough.
Good news is it sounds like a lot of guys will test it at the very least. So if it ends up good, I may end up changing my tune and trying it. I'm not married to my green one drops for the most part.
I don't think it's the same thing though. Student of Warfare is actually who I was comparing this to in my mind when I evaluated it. You pay 3 mana to get a 3/3 first strike. That's solid. Even if you bolt me, I really didn't lose that much. Throwing 5 more mana at him generally only happens late game when he's outlived his usefulness, and the payout is huge if it lands. 4/4 double strike is no joke.
Compare that to Warden and it's just not nearly as lucrative. 3 mana for a vanilla 3/3 is not what I want to be doing in green (having to splash white/black on top of it - if I'm black I'm probably doing graveyard shenanigans and if white I'm some kind of token deck typically). And then tossing another 4 mana for lifelink and trample on the same vulnerable 3/3 body? Yuk. If you get to the final version (13 mana later), sure that's solid (8/8 trample life link), but it's also crazy expensive and it dies to doom blade.
It doesn't compare well to Student of Warfare, because student's 1st level up is better, and you can just sink extra mana here or there into his ability.
Student makes sure you're never wasting mana.
What... I don't even know where to start...
First of all, Student of Warfare is not just a 3/3 first strike for 3 mana. He is a 3/3 for , whereas Warden is a 3/3 for :symc1: . That's a big difference to "3 mana". Bolting either of them is the same loss in terms of CMC. Also, both die to Doom Blade as well as Figure. That's no valid point.
Also, the first level up of Student does nothing short of...nothing. And the I'm-wasting-no-mana point counts for all of them.
Yes, they work differently. But they all fill similiar roles. They are all early drops with the ability to matter late game or fill otherwise empty turns. Each of them has pros and cons, but I value each one in a similiar fashion.
The level up of the Student is in no way better than Figure/Warden. The mana can only be spent in sorcery speed and only matters when the levels reach certain thresholds. Also, Student needs lots of white mana. The other two may need whole activation costs at once, but they are usable at instant speed and don't require 7 mana of the same color. Warden is actually the easiest of the three to spend mana on. His second ability may not be the best, but that doesn't make it a bad mana sink. I see it as a tradeoff to the repeatable third ability.
Also, the Student's 8 white mana VS the Figure's 11 red/white mana VS the Warden's 13 mana are fair in terms of color intensity VS amount of mana spent. They are still good mana sinks that have their strengths and weaknesses when compared to each other. Proclaiming the Warden is worse than Student or Figure is just wrong.
The only real difference between the Warden and the other two is the inital you need to spend before all three can live only off white mana. Is that single really that much of a problem? It pushes it more into midrangey decks, but that doesn't make it a worse card.
Am I missing something? Are there any good points that make the Warden a bad card?
Are there any good points that make the Warden a bad card?
Not yet.
..........
There are pros and cons when comparing Warden to every comparable card out there. Since it's not strictly better than a current cube card, I guess pointing out the shortcomings and ignoring the advantages is the fair way to evaluate the card.
It's an aggressive 1-drop that bashes for 3 on T2 after a splashable activation cost ...and it works to full effect in multiple color combinations. The rest of his damn-awesome text is just gravy.
I've seen Figure ultimate a few times, usually when both players draw poorly in the same game. I've also seen it die in response to being ultimated a fair number of times.
The main thing is, Figure's 2/2 form is a slightly below par return on investment, as is Warden's first 3/3 form. But Figure's 4/4 form is a reasonable return, while the second 3/3 form of Warden is terrible, and it is a lot easier to kill Warden in response to its ultimate than it is to kill Figure in response to its ultimate. 4 damage instants and -4/-4 instants are much rarer than 3 damage ones, and so you usually will need either an instant destroy effect or an instant exile effect to deal with it in response.
Ya I dont get the hate for this guy. Its a 1 drop that easily becomes a 3/3 on turn 2. Sure hes boltable, but so are 90% of the creatures in cube. What more do you guys want from a 1 drop?
It's a card that is strong and reward skilled player. I like this card a lot. Of course, if the playgroup doesn't know timing of using cards like these and it get bolt/doom blade all the time, then this card would not be for that playgroup.
How bad is it for 1 drop, that you only sink mana into when you can afford to, draw removal anyways? It's 1 drop. A one drop that can grow to be a 3/3 is good enough for a reason for this card to be in a cube. It's a one time Rootwalla activation cost. Any further form mana is only need to be paid when you are not casting anything else. It's not going to make a significant lose in tempo.
I don't really understand why folks are comparing this guy to Figure and Student (and especially Fleecemane Lion). The three cards are similar, but none of them fight for the same slot so I don't see the value in comparing them too closely. Now, with that said, I think this guy is really good, but I'm not convinced that he'll make into my list over the card that we should be comparing him to: Siege Rhino. That's the discussion that should be happening here.
There are exactly eight spells in my 450 Cube that can kill Warden and not Figure in their middle forms. One of those is Inferno Titan, but it can do it so I counted it. If I really wanted to look, and I don't, I know there are at least seven cards that can kill Figure as a 2/2 but not Warden as a 3/3.
If we want to talk about what creatures can effectively block Warden but not Figure then I'm happy to have that conversation, but the idea that Warden is vulnerable to so many more spells than Figure feels a little silly after a bit of analysis.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Again, you have control over the window in which the abilities are used. You don't have to play bad Magic here. Only use the middle ability when you know it's safe from removal (you can activate it as an instant) or when it's going to immediately bridge to the ultimate. There are a ton of cases where the middle ability is going to be great; even against red. They tap out for something and you EOT give it lifelink and trample. If you can push 1-2 extra points of damage through because of the evasion and gain 3 life in the process, it's worth the mana investment even if it does die when they untap because you just "ate" another burn spell to the face and sped up your clock. And it doesn't cost you any additional cards. But when your opponent gives you a window for EOT level to middle, untap, play land, level to ultimate, that will be just fine against whatever burn spells you were afraid of. And if you think you're going to be brutally punished by removal they have mana for ...DON'T USE THE ABILITY. It's optional, and you can find the ideal place to use it; just like every other card that uses a similar mechanic.
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100% correct. Dont use it in the face of certain death. If you have free mana or they tap out then activate it. If not cast something else. If you dont have anything else and it dies then you havent lost any tempo.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
This card also reminds me of student of warfare. They dont always have a bolt in hand. These cards reward skillful play. And this card is ridiculous in the midgame if your opponent has not answer. It will end the game in a couple of turns.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Compare that to Warden and it's just not nearly as lucrative. 3 mana for a vanilla 3/3 is not what I want to be doing in green (having to splash white/black on top of it - if I'm black I'm probably doing graveyard shenanigans and if white I'm some kind of token deck typically). And then tossing another 4 mana for lifelink and trample on the same vulnerable 3/3 body? Yuk. If you get to the final version (13 mana later), sure that's solid (8/8 trample life link), but it's also crazy expensive and it dies to doom blade (or bolt before the ability resolves). Not a fan.
Mana sinks are great. I get that. But the payout has to be worth it. If it's over-costed, it just doesn't matter. Whispers of the Muse is infinite card advantage in theory, but it's so expensive it's basically unplayable. Not suggesting this guy is unplayable, but IMO he's not nearly as good as some of you are suggesting. Again, my opinion.
As far as playing bad magic… you can't know if your opponent has removal. You can try and level this guy up when it seems safe, but that doesn't always work as planned (snuff out, contagion, etc.). In addition, my cube runs a very high amount of removal (creature removal in some form I think is 20% of the cube, maybe slightly higher). Dudes rarely live very long and if I'm going to throw 13 mana at something, it needs protection of some kind. Figure rarely lives past his 2/2 version and I don't think I've ever seen him an 8/8 honestly (and his final version is way more achievable than Warden's).
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
My thoughts as well. The only way I see it being a "better" Cube card is if it also slots well into b/g decks making it more "versatile". Personally, I'm not seeing it. Maybe at >= 450 I dunno.
1) It's a one drop. That's significantly better, even if you need to invest additional mana into it in the future. Figure of Destiny proves this point well enough.
2) Warden goes into more decks. Being able to play this in a straight Golgari deck is a HUGE incentive.
3) There is no ceiling on this guy.
Warden is certainly not strictly better, but I think the pros for it far outweigh the cons.
EDIT:
I think the discussion this card has generated is very valuable for cube managers though. All the comparisons to lots of different cubeable (and not cubeable) cards are great.
Honestly, I think this may be one of the best analytical threads on a card I've ever seen on these boards. This guy has been compared to like 4 different cards, all with great arguments for and against each of them.
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This sums up my thoughts quite well. The mana sink has to be worth it.
This doesn't compare well to figure, because Figure's second level ability is very attainable and very good (boosts it out of bolt range and gives it an additional 2 power to boot.
It doesn't compare well to Student of Warfare, because student's 1st level up is better, and you can just sink extra mana here or there into his ability. Student makes sure you're never wasting mana.
Now both of those cards are easy includes, so this guy doesn't have to be as good as them to merit inclusion necessarily. He may be good enough despite not being as good as the comparison cards.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
You bring up a good point I glossed a bit. Warden's ultimate is easier to pay for than Figure due to color restrictions, that's true. In the end though, I don't think it matters. Neither scenario is going to happen IMO. Again, I've never seen Figure an 8/8 ever. And he sees a lot of play. I think you have to judge these guys like you would a walker - not on their ultimate but on abilities before that - and in the case of Figure his earlier modes are just way better. He's also in a color combination that wants an aggressive dude like that, so he feels a lot more appealing. If true green aggro (not green in support mode) becomes a thing, I might have a different opinion. But for now, I don't think Warden is even close to Figure.
The comparison is equally bad (if not worse) with student. His ultimate actually DOES happen occasionally. It's rare of course, but the mana investment is considerably smaller in aggregate (8 mana versus 11 for figure and 13 for warden). And it can be paid for in installments unlike the all or nothing Figure and Warden. That's really the key I think.
Having to pay Warden (and even Figure's) costs as lump sums make them weaker than leveling up even if level up is a sorcery. Or at least I've personally found that to be true. I have no issue throwing spare mana at Student when I have it. One mana here and one mana there is fine - what else can I do with it (usually nothing). But it is often hard to find even 3 mana for Figure's second ability (at least 3 mana I want to dedicate to make him a 4/4 at that point in the game). I'd almost always rather be casting something from my hand unless I'm trying to bait removal and/or force the wrath.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Good news is it sounds like a lot of guys will test it at the very least. So if it ends up good, I may end up changing my tune and trying it. I'm not married to my green one drops for the most part.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
What... I don't even know where to start...
First of all, Student of Warfare is not just a 3/3 first strike for 3 mana. He is a 3/3 for , whereas Warden is a 3/3 for :symc1: . That's a big difference to "3 mana". Bolting either of them is the same loss in terms of CMC. Also, both die to Doom Blade as well as Figure. That's no valid point.
Also, the first level up of Student does nothing short of...nothing. And the I'm-wasting-no-mana point counts for all of them.
Yes, they work differently. But they all fill similiar roles. They are all early drops with the ability to matter late game or fill otherwise empty turns. Each of them has pros and cons, but I value each one in a similiar fashion.
The level up of the Student is in no way better than Figure/Warden. The mana can only be spent in sorcery speed and only matters when the levels reach certain thresholds. Also, Student needs lots of white mana. The other two may need whole activation costs at once, but they are usable at instant speed and don't require 7 mana of the same color. Warden is actually the easiest of the three to spend mana on. His second ability may not be the best, but that doesn't make it a bad mana sink. I see it as a tradeoff to the repeatable third ability.
Also, the Student's 8 white mana VS the Figure's 11 red/white mana VS the Warden's 13 mana are fair in terms of color intensity VS amount of mana spent. They are still good mana sinks that have their strengths and weaknesses when compared to each other. Proclaiming the Warden is worse than Student or Figure is just wrong.
The only real difference between the Warden and the other two is the inital you need to spend before all three can live only off white mana. Is that single really that much of a problem? It pushes it more into midrangey decks, but that doesn't make it a worse card.
Am I missing something? Are there any good points that make the Warden a bad card?
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Not yet.
..........
There are pros and cons when comparing Warden to every comparable card out there. Since it's not strictly better than a current cube card, I guess pointing out the shortcomings and ignoring the advantages is the fair way to evaluate the card.
It's an aggressive 1-drop that bashes for 3 on T2 after a splashable activation cost ...and it works to full effect in multiple color combinations. The rest of his damn-awesome text is just gravy.
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The main thing is, Figure's 2/2 form is a slightly below par return on investment, as is Warden's first 3/3 form. But Figure's 4/4 form is a reasonable return, while the second 3/3 form of Warden is terrible, and it is a lot easier to kill Warden in response to its ultimate than it is to kill Figure in response to its ultimate. 4 damage instants and -4/-4 instants are much rarer than 3 damage ones, and so you usually will need either an instant destroy effect or an instant exile effect to deal with it in response.
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Ya I dont get the hate for this guy. Its a 1 drop that easily becomes a 3/3 on turn 2. Sure hes boltable, but so are 90% of the creatures in cube. What more do you guys want from a 1 drop?
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How bad is it for 1 drop, that you only sink mana into when you can afford to, draw removal anyways? It's 1 drop. A one drop that can grow to be a 3/3 is good enough for a reason for this card to be in a cube. It's a one time Rootwalla activation cost. Any further form mana is only need to be paid when you are not casting anything else. It's not going to make a significant lose in tempo.
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If we want to talk about what creatures can effectively block Warden but not Figure then I'm happy to have that conversation, but the idea that Warden is vulnerable to so many more spells than Figure feels a little silly after a bit of analysis.