Jeskai Ascendancy
URW
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. Untap those creatures.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
So. This thing.
I'm well aware that there are plenty of perfectly reasonable objections to it in cube. Difficulty of running wedges, being situational, lacking board impact, etc. Still, we've seen it tearing up formats in not just one, but many types of deck. So let's see what we can make it do in cube:
-For starters, tokens and token producers love it. Even as a "fair" card used traditionally, it offers a version of the Purphoros token archetype that is potentially even more powerful than the traditional plan. See standard for evidence of this.
-If you're feeling ambitious, you can always try and nail the combo. Fatestitcher, Faerie Conclave, and Wind Zendikon are a few fringe ways to do it, but you'll usually prefer a green splash. Building up storm or simply making massive creatures are probably your best paths to success here rather than going for an instal-kill.
-Of course, you can simply go for the value route instead. Most UWR has natural crossover with this plan anyway, and looting on every noncreature spell is an amazing ability that can set up a great many things, as we've learned from Dack Fayden.
It's funny when I first looked at it, I didn't think twice of it, but after playing with it a bunch and seeing it take over constructed formats.... the card is busted.
Unfortunately, I think it doesn't fair well in cube environments. It requires jeskai colors AND the deck be built around it. Very unlikely to be drafting a deck without ascendency that ascendency fits very well into.
It needs to be early in pack 1 and then built around... Makes it very narrow..
If I decide to support a lot more token spells maybe one day I'll give it a try. UWR spells matter is a thing in my cube, but ascendancy isn't at it's best in most of those builds.
Lots of cantrips and the fringe token producers like raise the alarm, gather the townsfolk, krenkos command, hordeling outburst would be needed.
Treasure cruise + dig through time are also very important
I think if you just shove it into most cubes it's not good enough.. Even if semi supported it's probably too narrow.
1/100 cubes it might be insane, but 90/100 it'll be sideboard material, and 9/100 cubes it'll be "ok" but playable.
One of the very rare good in constructed, terrible in limited cards. How much overlap is there between the cards the constructed decks that play this card and cube cards? Almost 0. Combo pieces thrive on redundancy that just doesn't exist in cube. If you spend a turn doing this, probably another turn setting up the mana to cast this thing, and a third turn durdling around looting and untapping in cube, I'm just gonna smile and run you over with the relevant spells I played on turns 2, 3, and 4.
One of the very rare good in constructed, terrible in limited cards. How much overlap is there between the cards the constructed decks that play this card and cube cards? Almost 0. Combo pieces thrive on redundancy that just doesn't exist in cube. If you spend a turn doing this, probably another turn setting up the mana to cast this thing, and a third turn durdling around looting and untapping in cube, I'm just gonna smile and run you over with the relevant spells I played on turns 2, 3, and 4.
Surprisingly high, if you go by some of the more recent straight UWR Modern and Legacy decklists. The only cards in those decks played that weren't commonly played in cube are Fatestitcher, which has seen fringe play, and Ascendancy itself. Apart from the mana requirements (a big ask, especially for a noncreature enchantment), it doesn't require all that much setup, playing a pseudo-Thassa role in finding exactly what you need to make it awesome.
I wouldn't be bringing this card up if it were all about putting together a combo, which it isn't, though it can. The tokens list and refined modern/legacy lists all get excellent value out of it with cards that are frequently staples or close to them in cubes. It honestly seems like more like a broken value engine that supports decks that had all the tools to begin with. I can easily see it being narrow, but I can also see lots of "spells matter", tokens, or simple UWR value lists coming across this in pack 3 and finding that they already have the tools need to work with it.
FWIW, not terrible in limited. Some of my best draft decks have had JA, since it triggers all your prowess the turn it comes in, and then every removal/bounce spell after that is an anthem.
FWIW, not terrible in limited. Some of my best draft decks have had JA, since it triggers all your prowess the turn it comes in, and then every removal/bounce spell after that is an anthem.
Not terrible at all.
-AA
It's not the worst card ever, but it's certainly not great either. Terrible was certainly a bit hyperbolic. I think in the average Khan's deck, I'd rather run 6 of the 8 Jeskai cards (ascendency is better than Narset, and is probably close to weaponmaster and warden). Most limited decks, by necessity, just don't have that many non-creature spells. I'm sure you can make a decent ascendency limited deck, but I don't think it's going to be better than most of the strong 2-color splash a third decks, and is going to be a lot less consistent and hard to draft. I'm not convinced the card is anything but terrible in most limited decks.
With regards to modern and legacy decks running the card, here's a modern list from LSV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH0gaWYz72o&list=PL04lbfeNAaS-0ONdp5ojk2PuHmXsUujVW . In that deck, the cards most cubes run are path, bolt, izzet charm, dig, and maybe cruise. So that's 5 cards of your deck, and in cube, you have to be running at least 4 colors to have a guy that is gonna untap to use the combo unless you just want to rely on a single faerie conclave and not be able to actually generate mana. Legacy lists have similar numbers that correspond to cube, but add things like brainstorm, swords, and force, which obviously gets you a little closer. But let's just agree that assembling this as a combo deck is a pipe dream in cube. There's not enough free or 1-mana cantrips for it to work, and there's not enough reliable ways to get multiple untappers into play unharassed to do the combo.
So, that leaves it, as you said, spells matter token decks (because it certainly doesn't do enough with, say, things like guttersnipe to make it worth bothering with the 3-color cost.) So say I have the nut pyromancer, porphuros, tempt with vengence, etc. Is this card that much more than a harder to cast, less reliable intangible virtue or glorious anthem? Yes, it loots, but it also does nothing when you don't have a non-creature in hand or no cards in hand, whereas other anthem effects still provide some value. I'll remain convinced this is a card that almost no cube wants and is not worth testing unless there is hard evidence to the contrary.
If you support storm in a larger cube, J. Ascendancy can be a decent roleplayer there. Most of our storm decks are 3+ colors, and white brings a package of Academy Rector, Idyllic Tutor, and Replenish (which all actually work with the Ascendancy, too). Empty the Warrens is obviously the best card to combo it with, since you only need an empty for 6 guys and a few things to do on the next turn when you have an Ascendancy out (even just +2/+2 on 6 guys is representing near-lethal). Young Pyromancer and Talrand also fit into the deck pretty well, as does Guttersnipe and other spells-matters cards.
The mana cost is the most prohibiting factor, but with one azorius dual or shock and 2+ fetches to find it, you should be okay. It worked for us well enough in 4 and 5 color storm.
It can also be really good in 4 or 5 color storm that uses green. Hunting Pack seems hilarious, but with the mana generation from Sylvan Caryatid and mana dorks into big ramp/draw spells, the Ascendancy both adds to getting enough storm with Hunting Pack (generally you only need 4 tokens off the thing to get bonkers), and it makes them 5/5s, 6/6s etc which are more scary than 4/4s.
It also adds a good amount of value to mana production guys like Rofellos, mana elves, Palladium Myr, Metalworker, Magus of the Candelabra (nasty), etc. Guys that tap for things other than mana are also pretty sweet, although definitely not likely to see play in the same deck -- but you never know -- Master of the Wild Hunt, tappers like Goldmeadow Harrier, Deathrite Shaman, Mikeaus the Lunarch, Enclave Cryptologist, Waterfront Bouncer, Grim Lavamancer. Hell's Caretaker is an interaction I've yet to see, but seems like it could be pretty sweet with some instants.
I'm (currently) of the opinion that if you're going to include 3-color cards in your list, you should go for unique, narrow, build-around cards (and make sure that there's support for them).
So Doran, Sidisi and Maelstrom Wanderer instead of Siege Rhino, Sultai Charm and Savage Knuckleblade.
Jeskai Ascendancy seems like a fine card to experiment with. It's definitely powerful enough and has overlap with quite a few archetypes you're probably supporting anyway.
If you're playing with a very "Spik-y" playgroup and/or are evaluating a card only by maindeck percentage or pick order, it's always going to come up short, though.
Not bad. I don't run any three-color cards in my cube. They pretty much never got drafted, so I took them out. Were I to run a card of this wedge, though, it would probably be Lightning Angel.
I'm considering replacing Lightning Angel with Jeskai Ascendancy. Has anyone had success with Ascendancy? Which common cube cards does it go well with? Any must-includes needed to push it?
I'm considering replacing Lightning Angel with Jeskai Ascendancy. Has anyone had success with Ascendancy? Which common cube cards does it go well with? Any must-includes needed to push it?
I'd say that this is an upgrade, at least on power level and payoffs for doing it. Because, really, I'm not going to splash white in my Izzet deck for Lightning Angel, as having an efficient threat isn't really enough for me to potentially mess up my mana base (or require extra picks to accommodate for it.) But Jeskai Ascendancy does. At least, it's the lone straggler of my tri-color section.
For the most part, I've seen it work best in either Izzet-splashing white decks for it, which don't really have a token theme per se, but as a way to just get value out of non-creatures. As you can tell, they generally tend to trend towards either having a lot of multitaskers (non-creatures that function as a creature, like Koth of the Hammer) or decks with a ton of non-creatures and see the creature generation as a neat bonus if it comes down to it. But I haven't really gone out of my way to push it, it's mainly just... there, ya know?
When I was going deep on the spells matters archetype, I played Ascendancy in my cube, and it was pretty awesome in that deck. I think my generic Jeskai shells prefer Lightning Angel or Soulfire Grand Master, but there are certainly decks where Ascendancy can be pretty amazing.
If you consider Soulfire Grand Master in the Jeskai card slot, it's a lot more flexible. It's even playable with no red/blue cards against aggro decks.
If you consider Soulfire Grand Master in the Jeskai card slot, it's a lot more flexible. It's even playable with no red/blue cards against aggro decks.
It also has a ridiculously high ceiling in powered cubes, where this + Time Walk = GG
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
We played this maybe 5 years back, since we had a shard card in each color combo. We didn't really see it in regular fair decks, it was pretty much just for the combo. This honestly might be pretty playable in fair decks, but I just think it's important to preface that I've never took the opportunity to play with it that way.
The combo with manadorks honestly works ok and lets you generate some mana, but since there's only so many cantrips in cube it's hard to really kill anybody without Life // Death, which we played at the time to good success. We also played Sylvan Caryatid at the time too, but I suppose we didn't have Ignoble Hierarch at the time so maybe it evens out. Although we did play Rude Awakening in our cube at one time, that was for storm, and never overlapped with Ascendancy.
There are some other obvious cards that work well with the combo like Fatestitcher and Sylvan Awakening but I don't think I've ever actually seen somebody cube with those, meanwhile there's a few non-mana dork, non-token producing cards like Goblin Welder/Goblin Engineer/cheap manlands/looters/Life from the Loam/flahsback or aftermath or delve cards/etc that can get out of control with a few untaps and loots, so if you do test it don't be afraid to play it with some of the weird ***** too lmao
I did give this a test in 2017. It's definitely a fun card. I saw the 4-color Ascendancy deck come together a few times. I could see that deck having more support now with Omnath, Locus of Creation and Golos, Tireless Pilgrim supporting 4 and 5 color decks.
I've played a bit of Ascendancy and I can vouche that this type of effect is crazy powerful.
This would be a slam dunk in my cube if it was Grixis as I would really appreciate this style of effect for both storm/ grixis spells. But Jeskai is in a bit of a weird place.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
The secret to making the Ascendancy a viable card is having a huge amount of Mishra's Bauble type cards or Ponder type cards. They cantrip and are cheap.
The secret to making the Ascendancy a viable card is having a huge amount of Mishra's Bauble type cards or Ponder type cards. They cantrip and are cheap.
+1/+1 until end of turn not +1/+1 counter.
My experience with this card is the looting and +1/+1 counters are crazy powerful in a spells matters deck, especially in a format with Cruise, Land Tax, Life from the Loam etc. I've found that if you are primarily using for the looting (storm for example), getting 3 triggers off Ascendancy is worth it. If you're a spells matters deck, getting 2 loot + pump is worth it. (This shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
The reason why I'm adding it back into my cube is Third Path Iconoclat + the number of good two drops + triome/ easy fixing that makes it easy for people to play 4c decks.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
My bad, I wasn't clear. I meant that the creatures I listed tap to add +1/+1 counters on themselves or others, which allows you to grow them pretty big!
URW
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn. Untap those creatures.
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
So. This thing.
I'm well aware that there are plenty of perfectly reasonable objections to it in cube. Difficulty of running wedges, being situational, lacking board impact, etc. Still, we've seen it tearing up formats in not just one, but many types of deck. So let's see what we can make it do in cube:
-For starters, tokens and token producers love it. Even as a "fair" card used traditionally, it offers a version of the Purphoros token archetype that is potentially even more powerful than the traditional plan. See standard for evidence of this.
-Lots of crossover with the UR "spells matter" archetype. Some particular synergies that look appealing are Grim Lavamancer, Stoke the Flames, Gelectrode (and other Tim variants), Young Pyromancer, Staggershock, Faithless Looting, Kiln Field types, Snapcaster Mage, and all manner of cantrips/draw spells.
-If you're feeling ambitious, you can always try and nail the combo. Fatestitcher, Faerie Conclave, and Wind Zendikon are a few fringe ways to do it, but you'll usually prefer a green splash. Building up storm or simply making massive creatures are probably your best paths to success here rather than going for an instal-kill.
-Of course, you can simply go for the value route instead. Most UWR has natural crossover with this plan anyway, and looting on every noncreature spell is an amazing ability that can set up a great many things, as we've learned from Dack Fayden.
Thoughts? Anything I missed?
Cubetutor Link
Unfortunately, I think it doesn't fair well in cube environments. It requires jeskai colors AND the deck be built around it. Very unlikely to be drafting a deck without ascendency that ascendency fits very well into.
It needs to be early in pack 1 and then built around... Makes it very narrow..
If I decide to support a lot more token spells maybe one day I'll give it a try. UWR spells matter is a thing in my cube, but ascendancy isn't at it's best in most of those builds.
Lots of cantrips and the fringe token producers like raise the alarm, gather the townsfolk, krenkos command, hordeling outburst would be needed.
Treasure cruise + dig through time are also very important
I think if you just shove it into most cubes it's not good enough.. Even if semi supported it's probably too narrow.
1/100 cubes it might be insane, but 90/100 it'll be sideboard material, and 9/100 cubes it'll be "ok" but playable.
Last Updated 02/06/23
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
465 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Surprisingly high, if you go by some of the more recent straight UWR Modern and Legacy decklists. The only cards in those decks played that weren't commonly played in cube are Fatestitcher, which has seen fringe play, and Ascendancy itself. Apart from the mana requirements (a big ask, especially for a noncreature enchantment), it doesn't require all that much setup, playing a pseudo-Thassa role in finding exactly what you need to make it awesome.
I wouldn't be bringing this card up if it were all about putting together a combo, which it isn't, though it can. The tokens list and refined modern/legacy lists all get excellent value out of it with cards that are frequently staples or close to them in cubes. It honestly seems like more like a broken value engine that supports decks that had all the tools to begin with. I can easily see it being narrow, but I can also see lots of "spells matter", tokens, or simple UWR value lists coming across this in pack 3 and finding that they already have the tools need to work with it.
Cubetutor Link
Not terrible at all.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
It's not the worst card ever, but it's certainly not great either. Terrible was certainly a bit hyperbolic. I think in the average Khan's deck, I'd rather run 6 of the 8 Jeskai cards (ascendency is better than Narset, and is probably close to weaponmaster and warden). Most limited decks, by necessity, just don't have that many non-creature spells. I'm sure you can make a decent ascendency limited deck, but I don't think it's going to be better than most of the strong 2-color splash a third decks, and is going to be a lot less consistent and hard to draft. I'm not convinced the card is anything but terrible in most limited decks.
With regards to modern and legacy decks running the card, here's a modern list from LSV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH0gaWYz72o&list=PL04lbfeNAaS-0ONdp5ojk2PuHmXsUujVW . In that deck, the cards most cubes run are path, bolt, izzet charm, dig, and maybe cruise. So that's 5 cards of your deck, and in cube, you have to be running at least 4 colors to have a guy that is gonna untap to use the combo unless you just want to rely on a single faerie conclave and not be able to actually generate mana. Legacy lists have similar numbers that correspond to cube, but add things like brainstorm, swords, and force, which obviously gets you a little closer. But let's just agree that assembling this as a combo deck is a pipe dream in cube. There's not enough free or 1-mana cantrips for it to work, and there's not enough reliable ways to get multiple untappers into play unharassed to do the combo.
So, that leaves it, as you said, spells matter token decks (because it certainly doesn't do enough with, say, things like guttersnipe to make it worth bothering with the 3-color cost.) So say I have the nut pyromancer, porphuros, tempt with vengence, etc. Is this card that much more than a harder to cast, less reliable intangible virtue or glorious anthem? Yes, it loots, but it also does nothing when you don't have a non-creature in hand or no cards in hand, whereas other anthem effects still provide some value. I'll remain convinced this is a card that almost no cube wants and is not worth testing unless there is hard evidence to the contrary.
465 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
The mana cost is the most prohibiting factor, but with one azorius dual or shock and 2+ fetches to find it, you should be okay. It worked for us well enough in 4 and 5 color storm.
It can also be really good in 4 or 5 color storm that uses green. Hunting Pack seems hilarious, but with the mana generation from Sylvan Caryatid and mana dorks into big ramp/draw spells, the Ascendancy both adds to getting enough storm with Hunting Pack (generally you only need 4 tokens off the thing to get bonkers), and it makes them 5/5s, 6/6s etc which are more scary than 4/4s.
It also adds a good amount of value to mana production guys like Rofellos, mana elves, Palladium Myr, Metalworker, Magus of the Candelabra (nasty), etc. Guys that tap for things other than mana are also pretty sweet, although definitely not likely to see play in the same deck -- but you never know -- Master of the Wild Hunt, tappers like Goldmeadow Harrier, Deathrite Shaman, Mikeaus the Lunarch, Enclave Cryptologist, Waterfront Bouncer, Grim Lavamancer. Hell's Caretaker is an interaction I've yet to see, but seems like it could be pretty sweet with some instants.
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
So Doran, Sidisi and Maelstrom Wanderer instead of Siege Rhino, Sultai Charm and Savage Knuckleblade.
Jeskai Ascendancy seems like a fine card to experiment with. It's definitely powerful enough and has overlap with quite a few archetypes you're probably supporting anyway.
If you're playing with a very "Spik-y" playgroup and/or are evaluating a card only by maindeck percentage or pick order, it's always going to come up short, though.
A Comprehensive list of Cube Archetypes
My Eternal Cube on CubeTutor| |My Reject Rare Cube on CubeTutor| |My Peasant Cube on CubeTutor
I used to write for MTGS, including Cranial Insertion and cube articles. Good on you if you can find those after the upgrade.
[180 classic cube]
I'd say that this is an upgrade, at least on power level and payoffs for doing it. Because, really, I'm not going to splash white in my Izzet deck for Lightning Angel, as having an efficient threat isn't really enough for me to potentially mess up my mana base (or require extra picks to accommodate for it.) But Jeskai Ascendancy does. At least, it's the lone straggler of my tri-color section.
For the most part, I've seen it work best in either Izzet-splashing white decks for it, which don't really have a token theme per se, but as a way to just get value out of non-creatures. As you can tell, they generally tend to trend towards either having a lot of multitaskers (non-creatures that function as a creature, like Koth of the Hammer) or decks with a ton of non-creatures and see the creature generation as a neat bonus if it comes down to it. But I haven't really gone out of my way to push it, it's mainly just... there, ya know?
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
My 540 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 45th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from ONE!
It also has a ridiculously high ceiling in powered cubes, where this + Time Walk = GG
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
My 540 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 45th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from ONE!
I'm wondering if Jeskai Ascendancy can be a fine addition to the cube.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The combo with manadorks honestly works ok and lets you generate some mana, but since there's only so many cantrips in cube it's hard to really kill anybody without Life // Death, which we played at the time to good success. We also played Sylvan Caryatid at the time too, but I suppose we didn't have Ignoble Hierarch at the time so maybe it evens out. Although we did play Rude Awakening in our cube at one time, that was for storm, and never overlapped with Ascendancy.
There are some other obvious cards that work well with the combo like Fatestitcher and Sylvan Awakening but I don't think I've ever actually seen somebody cube with those, meanwhile there's a few non-mana dork, non-token producing cards like Goblin Welder/Goblin Engineer/cheap manlands/looters/Life from the Loam/flahsback or aftermath or delve cards/etc that can get out of control with a few untaps and loots, so if you do test it don't be afraid to play it with some of the weird ***** too lmao
What we cube with on XMage (Hasn't been updated since before Strixhaven)
[180 classic cube]
This would be a slam dunk in my cube if it was Grixis as I would really appreciate this style of effect for both storm/ grixis spells. But Jeskai is in a bit of a weird place.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
If you play an artifact package of Urza, Lord High Artificer, Emry, Lurker of the Loch and Goblin Welder alongside a bunch of Baubles, you can probably go infinite.
Tokens
You can get a lot of value as well with token makers and cantrips: Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Third Path Iconoclast, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer.
Counters
Steel Overseer, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Crystalline Crawler, Hangarback Walker. Some of these are more niche, but with the right amount of one mana cantrips, Crawler can go infinite once again.
The secret to making the Ascendancy a viable card is having a huge amount of Mishra's Bauble type cards or Ponder type cards. They cantrip and are cheap.
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
+1/+1 until end of turn not +1/+1 counter.
My experience with this card is the looting and +1/+1 counters are crazy powerful in a spells matters deck, especially in a format with Cruise, Land Tax, Life from the Loam etc. I've found that if you are primarily using for the looting (storm for example), getting 3 triggers off Ascendancy is worth it. If you're a spells matters deck, getting 2 loot + pump is worth it. (This shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
The reason why I'm adding it back into my cube is Third Path Iconoclat + the number of good two drops + triome/ easy fixing that makes it easy for people to play 4c decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My bad, I wasn't clear. I meant that the creatures I listed tap to add +1/+1 counters on themselves or others, which allows you to grow them pretty big!
My 450ish 1vs1 cube