Has anyone tested Titania yet? I have 41 cards that destroy lands, including some that you probably wouldn't use on yourself like molten rain. I'm worried that most of the time she is just a 5/3 for 5 that might return a fetchland.
That's the same as two 5/3s and a land. Isn't that good enough for 5 mana?
Does this card seem criminally underplayed to anyone else? Between rainbow sac lands (e.g. Evolving Wilds, fetch lands and Wasteland/Strip Mine, in the right build you are very likely to get 2 5/3s plus ramp for the bargain bin price of 5 mana. With cards like Ramunap Excavator the ceiling is absurd as well and it is so quintessentially green. If you're feeling dirty, EOTing a Crop Rotation for a Wasteland targeting your own land adds 15 power to the board.
Yes it is. Criminally underplayed. This card is nuts with stuff like Rotation, KotR and Zuran Orb. We do run the whole land matter package though. Fastbond, Tatyova, Gitrog, Azusa, Constant Mist, etc.
Does this card seem criminally underplayed to anyone else? Between rainbow sac lands (e.g. Evolving Wilds, fetch lands and Wasteland/Strip Mine, in the right build you are very likely to get 2 5/3s plus ramp for the bargain bin price of 5 mana. With cards like Ramunap Excavator the ceiling is absurd as well and it is so quintessentially green. If you're feeling dirty, EOTing a Crop Rotation for a Wasteland targeting your own land adds 15 power to the board.
It's much easier to achieve critical mass for Titania in a smaller cube like yours. No love for Deranged Hermit? IMO, it's by far the best 5-drop creature in cube PERIOD and doesn't require any build around / take up valuable cube real estate for support cards like Titania does.
I'm not a massive Hermit fan either. He was slapped down after 10 mana invested far too many times for my liking. I'm definitely interested in giving Titania a try at some point in the future though, potentially with additional lands support cards. As SB put, it should not be unusual to get a 10 power plus ramp payoff immediately.
I actually recently cut Titania (again) after another run at a lands matter archetype didn't really pan out. With the release of Excavator I thought it was a perfect time to try that package again. The problem is there's just not even "good enough on their own" cards like Excavator and Titania to make it worth it outside of a smaller list that will produce those cards in nearly every draft. I have a 540 cube and we rarely see 8 players, so getting all the cards we included in the same draft pile happened far less often that I would have liked. Occasionally it came together and you built a sweet Titania/Gitrog deck, but even then those decks tended to be really fun to play, but not super competitive. I think we need a few more cards still to make that archetype worth supporting.
I added 2x fetch lands and Titania to my cube a while ago. Double fetches enable a lot of cards that are good in constructed but struggled to find a spot in cube. Titania has never done anything too busted but I still think she's solid.
I've run her for a medium/short sample with lands matters, double fetch lands , zuran orb etc.
I found there were too many decks where she was almost good enough because of lack of ways to sacrifice lands or get them in the graveyard.
In decks designed with Titania in mind she was very good, but not broken. She was the best 5 drop in crucbile/strip mine decks, but it wasn't by a large margin. she can still get dealt with by a lightning bolt, and there are plenty of board states in cube that a couple 5/3's don't get past.
To "go off" you need a crucible or a zuran orb in play or your deck needs like 6+ fetchlands. 6 fetchlands is basically impossible outside of constucted, and there are plenty of draws that don't include crucible + fetch or strip mine.
Otherwise, she doesn't become an engine and her value output gets eclipsed by cards like whisperwood elemental quite quickly.
She certainly had draws that were absurd, and made her look great , but over time, the fail cases started to become more apparent too. Possible I ran bad with her over the sample, but she hit so many sideboards, it was hard to get too high a sample.
The problem mostly is that, powered cubes have a lot of fast accelerated starts , and if she couldn't immediatly find a land to sacrifice, she was pretty bad.
Like, even a 20% fail rate on finding a land to sacrifice was a pretty huge deal. The floor of a 5/3 for 5 mana is so bad. This happened even in decks that she was included for. I ultimately cut her and don't think I'm looking back, short of a massive overhaul.
There a list in which she shined recently. No need of that much fetch lands, but I agreed to Titania needs way to put land into your yard. Here, we had KotR, Gitrog, Zuran Orb and Dust Bowl as repeatable effects. Windswept Heath, Evolving Wilds, Ghost Quarter and Gemstone Mine did also help a little. FWIW, this deck ended up undeafeated in a 4-man pod.
I don’t think I would run a card which cost 3GG and made 2 5/3s. Titania is too unreliable at this point I think - as noted the floor is just dreadful.
I agree. But most of the time, it litterally made infinite 5/3 in this deck, sometimes followed by infinite damage with Goblin Bombardment.
I agree, Titania looks insane in that deck.
I would say 99.9% of cubes don't have that degree of lands support, AND you had to managed to get them all in the same deck heh. That's not easy.
Even when things wheel and the archetype is open, sometimes you get clumps of the support in the same pack, or have to decide between a wayward swordtooth and a birds of paradise or something. Honestly, I'm skeptical you didn't just make this list up, it's that rare to happen to get all these pieces AND 9 non-basic lands.
I agree, Titania looks insane in that deck.
I would say 99.9% of cubes don't have that degree of lands support, AND you had to managed to get them all in the same deck heh. That's not easy.
Even when things wheel and the archetype is open, sometimes you get clumps of the support in the same pack, or have to decide between a wayward swordtooth and a birds of paradise or something. Honestly, I'm skeptical you didn't just make this list up, it's that rare to happen to get all these pieces AND 9 non-basic lands.
It's a 100% accurate drafted list that fought against Grixis Artifact, Mardu Purphorous and UB Reanimator. What would be the point to craft a list like this on top of my head anyway. It wouldn't have served the discussion well.
BTW,in your draft sequence example, I would simply take the elf and let possibly wheel the dino. And during the draft, I remember that the deck pilot did let wheel a Wasteland and some fetch in order to draft the draft correctly.
I have tested her in powered and she gets into decks 80% of the time. when she hits play she mostly eats spot removal. I rarely saw her get of with armageddon. But i also think thats due to getting enough effects that set her of. If you are able to protect her with counter spells or protective equipments, or strong combat tricks, then she is definitely worth it, just get your two card combo and win.
Titania has been a build around powerhouse and hands down greens best 5 drop. Whether we get an army on their end step off of gargadon, blowout board presence with a cataclysm, wildfire or geddon. Or just get solid value with knight of the reliquary, fetches or extra strip mine plays the card is always at least 10 power for 5 and a land play.
I'm wondering - Is there a reason this card isn't seeing more play? IS it primarily because the fetchland density isn't there?
Yeah, things like Squirrel Hermits / Biogenic Ooze are more reliable and work better with recursion / blink effects. Titania can be extremely feast or famine without extensive support like Elvish Reclaimer / Crop Rotation / Knight of the Reliquary / etc.
I'm willing to accept Titania as a combo piece with Knight of the Reliquary / Greater Gargadon / WildFire etc. I don't think we can consistently expect Titania to return a fetchland/ strip mine and consistently make a 5/3 on ETB.
(I'm going to assume the Knight - Titania deck has a sacrifice land such that Knight can essentially make 2 5/3s)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
That's the same as two 5/3s and a land. Isn't that good enough for 5 mana?
Yes it is. Criminally underplayed. This card is nuts with stuff like Rotation, KotR and Zuran Orb. We do run the whole land matter package though. Fastbond, Tatyova, Gitrog, Azusa, Constant Mist, etc.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
It's much easier to achieve critical mass for Titania in a smaller cube like yours. No love for Deranged Hermit? IMO, it's by far the best 5-drop creature in cube PERIOD and doesn't require any build around / take up valuable cube real estate for support cards like Titania does.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
I found there were too many decks where she was almost good enough because of lack of ways to sacrifice lands or get them in the graveyard.
In decks designed with Titania in mind she was very good, but not broken. She was the best 5 drop in crucbile/strip mine decks, but it wasn't by a large margin. she can still get dealt with by a lightning bolt, and there are plenty of board states in cube that a couple 5/3's don't get past.
To "go off" you need a crucible or a zuran orb in play or your deck needs like 6+ fetchlands. 6 fetchlands is basically impossible outside of constucted, and there are plenty of draws that don't include crucible + fetch or strip mine.
Otherwise, she doesn't become an engine and her value output gets eclipsed by cards like whisperwood elemental quite quickly.
She certainly had draws that were absurd, and made her look great , but over time, the fail cases started to become more apparent too. Possible I ran bad with her over the sample, but she hit so many sideboards, it was hard to get too high a sample.
The problem mostly is that, powered cubes have a lot of fast accelerated starts , and if she couldn't immediatly find a land to sacrifice, she was pretty bad.
Like, even a 20% fail rate on finding a land to sacrifice was a pretty huge deal. The floor of a 5/3 for 5 mana is so bad. This happened even in decks that she was included for. I ultimately cut her and don't think I'm looking back, short of a massive overhaul.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Bird of Paradise
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
Exploration effects
1x Fastbond
1x Exploration
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Wayward Swordtooth
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Black Lotus
1x Zuran Orb
1x Mana Vault
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Natural Order
1x Plow Under
1x Worm Harvest
Lands
1x Mox Emerald
1x Windswept Heath
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
1x Lumbering Falls
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Dust Bowl
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Evolving Wilds
3x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
I agree. But most of the time, it litterally made infinite 5/3 in this deck, sometimes followed by infinite damage with Goblin Bombardment.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
I would say 99.9% of cubes don't have that degree of lands support, AND you had to managed to get them all in the same deck heh. That's not easy.
Even when things wheel and the archetype is open, sometimes you get clumps of the support in the same pack, or have to decide between a wayward swordtooth and a birds of paradise or something. Honestly, I'm skeptical you didn't just make this list up, it's that rare to happen to get all these pieces AND 9 non-basic lands.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
It's a 100% accurate drafted list that fought against Grixis Artifact, Mardu Purphorous and UB Reanimator. What would be the point to craft a list like this on top of my head anyway. It wouldn't have served the discussion well.
BTW,in your draft sequence example, I would simply take the elf and let possibly wheel the dino. And during the draft, I remember that the deck pilot did let wheel a Wasteland and some fetch in order to draft the draft correctly.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Yeah, things like Squirrel Hermits / Biogenic Ooze are more reliable and work better with recursion / blink effects. Titania can be extremely feast or famine without extensive support like Elvish Reclaimer / Crop Rotation / Knight of the Reliquary / etc.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
(I'm going to assume the Knight - Titania deck has a sacrifice land such that Knight can essentially make 2 5/3s)