MTG Salvation

The negative interaction with missing 1-drops and playing Moxen hasn't stopped Stormblood Berserker from being the best red 2-drop in the cube. And Raid is easier to trigger than Bloodlust is. And this card is far better if the triggers don't happen. So... ya, I guess I disagree with the notion that it'll be bad because of those factors.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

The negative interaction with missing 1-drops and playing Moxen hasn't stopped Stormblood Berserker from being the best red 2-drop in the cube. And Raid is easier to trigger than Bloodlust is. And this card is far better if the triggers don't happen. So... ya, I guess I disagree with the notion that it'll be bad because of those factors.

But Stormblood is also a 3/3 that cant be blocked by 2 more creatures at all, no matter the size, while this is a 3/2 that cant be blocked by 1 power or less guys. I also wouldnt say Raid is easier to trigger than bloodthirst since any burn spell turns on stormblood as well as an attack for damage while if you have no guys raid is useless and if u do and they have a guy, suicide a guy for the boost isn't worth it.

Which is why I said Stormblood is better. But I wouldn't use the raid drawback to call this creature bad, because it's not as much of a drawback as bloodthirst is, and Berserker is rarely stuck in 1/1 mode.

I rather like my other 3/2 options. I could see cutting Keldon Marauder for this card since that card goes away. I rather dislike creatures that only get in for a one shot effect. I might be undervaluing the Keldon Marauder though. I'm aware it's a very strong aggro card, but this might be better since it gets around the chump blocker. I don't know. Something to think about at least.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Which is why I said Stormblood is better. But I wouldn't use the raid drawback to call this creature bad, because it's not as much of a drawback as bloodthirst is, and Berserker is rarely stuck in 1/1 mode.

Yeah I was just saying the bonuses you get aren't enough to justify him being a 2/1 sometimes unlike stormblood, whos bonuses are good enough to making him a 3/3 at all costs.

Everybodys top 10 would be a little different but FOR AGGRO, mine would be:

1. Stormblood Berserker
2. Plated Geopede
3. Ash Zealot
4. Hellspark Elemental
5. Lightning Mauler
6. Borderland Marauder
7. Gore-House Chainwalker
8. Keldon Marauders
9. Altac Bloodseeker
10. Young Pyromancer

My list would look similar. The main difference is that I would replace Altac Bloodseeker with the new War-Name Aspirant.

Quote from Ennex »

I'd be curious what a Top 10 of red's 2-drop creatures for aggro would look like - maybe a Top 15 given how many of them have been printed recently.

i realize this is getting off topic & before everybody starts yelling @ me, i do know this is the cube forum, but i think you guys are missing out on arguably the 2nd best red creature ever, eidolon of the great revel. just look @ your cube lists & count the # of 3 cmc or less cards... black vise still sees alot of play in cube & "the revel" is just nuts

Eidolon of the Great Revel has RR as it's casting cost which for some people is a huge strike against it. I personally want to like it and Ash Zealot enough but for now they both sit on the outside due to a lack of confidence that double red can be hit consistently. It's a great card for sure but we usually prefer things that can be cast with more ease.

Quote from Star Slayer »

My list would look similar. The main difference is that I would replace Altac Bloodseeker with the new War-Name Aspirant.

I could see that, shes probably better than bloodseeker, but I have liked Bloodseeker though.

What kind of red aggressive decks can't be relied upon to hit RR on turn two?!? For that matter, why would CC on turn 2 EVER be a problem if it is your primary color? If anything, it should be MORE rare to have two colors of mana on turn two, not two of the same. Unless you always play 50/50ish split decks, this shouldn't be a consistent problem.

I think instead of people worrying about not being able to cast your spells, I think people need to focus more on including/drafting enough lands in their Cubes. I think the notion of not being to reliably hit CC on turn 2 is something people should be looking to solve in other ways besides not running awesome cards. Draft your fixing early and often, people! 10% lands isn't good enough for a lot of Cubes, either! Viva la lands!

Eidolon of the Great Revel is nuts, and has been ever since he has found a home in my Cube. It's a philosophy of fire question; how much do you need each of your cards to do to win the game? Eidolon typically does minimum 4 damage outside of combat, and often gets in at least one attack. That's 6 damage from a single card; not much more you can ask for than that. Even casting it and getting it removed winds up in your favor in lots of scenarios! If each of the aggressive deck's cards do 3 damage, it only needs 7 cards to win the game. If that hit 4 dmg/card, it only need 5 cards to win the game...a whole two cards less!

From my understanding, it can be pretty fun in powered matches as well. Watched it cast on t1 recently, and it did 4 damage before it attacked. That's only one example, of course, but it's still pretty awesome.

-AA

Quote from BrandonMurrayBMM »

Everybodys top 10 would be a little different but FOR AGGRO, mine would be:

1. Stormblood Berserker
2. Plated Geopede
3. Ash Zealot
4. Hellspark Elemental
5. Lightning Mauler
6. Borderland Marauder
7. Gore-House Chainwalker
8. Keldon Marauders
9. Altac Bloodseeker
10. Young Pyromancer

1. Hellspark elemental
2. Keldon marauders
3. Stormblood berzerker
4. Ash zealot
5. Plated Geopede
6. Lightning mauler
7. Young pyromancer
8. Burning-tree emissary
9.Kragon dragonlord (dont play him over #9, but hes more powerful)
10, Borderland marauder


Havent tested eidolon of great revel, really should tho, considering how insane its been in constructed.
although I estimated it would be a lot better in constructed...

Have you ever done the math on the number of sources required to hit double-cost guys on T2? It's harder than you think. With 10 sources of red, you'll only be able to cast him on T2 ~57% of the time.

Quote from Antknee42 »

What kind of red aggressive decks can't be relied upon to hit RR on turn two?!? For that matter, why would CC on turn 2 EVER be a problem if it is your primary color? If anything, it should be MORE rare to have two colors of mana on turn two, not two of the same. Unless you always play 50/50ish split decks, this shouldn't be a consistent problem.

I think instead of people worrying about not being able to cast your spells, I think people need to focus more on including/drafting enough lands in their Cubes. I think the notion of not being to reliably hit CC on turn 2 is something people should be looking to solve in other ways besides not running awesome cards. Draft your fixing early and often, people! 10% lands isn't good enough for a lot of Cubes, either! Viva la lands!

Eidolon of the Great Revel is nuts, and has been ever since he has found a home in my Cube. It's a philosophy of fire question; how much do you need each of your cards to do to win the game? Eidolon typically does minimum 4 damage outside of combat, and often gets in at least one attack. That's 6 damage from a single card; not much more you can ask for than that. Even casting it and getting it removed winds up in your favor in lots of scenarios! If each of the aggressive deck's cards do 3 damage, it only needs 7 cards to win the game. If that hit 4 dmg/card, it only need 5 cards to win the game...a whole two cards less!

From my understanding, it can be pretty fun in powered matches as well. Watched it cast on t1 recently, and it did 4 damage before it attacked. That's only one example, of course, but it's still pretty awesome.

-AA

I agree about EotGR. He's really good, and dishing out so much damage symmetrically is great for aggro. For some draft types, CC cards can be an issue though and I think minimizing them is generally a good move if you do a lot of Winstons like us. Sometimes it isn't your primary colour and is only secondary or tertiary. We save those slots for the really unique and strong cards, like Eidolon and Rofellos.

Eidolon wasn't that great for us. Not only was the cost a liability, but he was really rough in matchups where self-damage is important and the body didn't have any evasion or abilities to give it combat relevance. In mono-red against a lower-curve control deck he was fine. But in a 2-color aggro deck the cost was a liability, and in my other matchups the self-damage was really painful.

Once again, I think the point is fair when talking about drafting types. I should have clarified to say booster draft (or rotisserie).

-AA

I think Stormblood Berserker is definitely enough reward to justify the risk of playing poorly with Moxen and not having a one drop in hand. His ability is much better than this guy's, and his stats are better too once he gets bloodthirsted.

I do like how this guy can block as a 3/2 and that's definitely something.

I think he's higher risk higher reward than GHC or Borderland Marauder, but I value the consistency of those 1R drops a little more than this guy without having tested him yet.

I don't like Eidolon because outside of his ability which is ok hes just a 2/2 for 2. He doesnt have haste, he doesnt have first stike, he doesnt have any other keywords. I want my guys to have something like that.

Quote from Ennex »

I'd be curious what a Top 10 of red's 2-drop creatures for aggro would look like...

But I may swap out the Zealot for the Aspirant if she tests well.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Quote from Ennex »

I'd be curious what a Top 10 of red's 2-drop creatures for aggro would look like...

Red Top 10 2-DropsMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
01 Stormblood Berserker 02 Plated Geopede 03 Young Pyromancer 04 Hellspark Elemental 05 Keldon Marauders 06 Lightning Mauler 07 Ash Zealot 08 War-Name Aspirant 09 Borderland Marauder 10 Gore-House Chainwalker

But I may swap out the Zealot for the Aspirant if she tests well.

I too like this guy better than chainwalker and marauder, as I think the unblockable clause is a lot more relevant than it first appears. Obviously testing will determine if it actually is, but I think this guys good case scenario more than makes up for the times he's just a hard to block piker.

Having already played with Stormblood and Hero of Oxid Ridge, I think I've played with these type of effects to know that this is a card that really deserves a spot in my cube.

The red 2-drop spot's been wonderful for us these last two years! I'm also a huge Eidolon fan for cube since it's being mentioned; the card's done an incredible amount of work for us.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Have you ever done the math on the number of sources required to hit double-cost guys on T2? It's harder than you think. With 10 sources of red, you'll only be able to cast him on T2 ~57% of the time.

Your right It is lower than I thought haha, but I trust youve done the math (rememeber the article).
Are the those numbers including any mulligan assumptions?

It's interesting how much our experiences differs with red. Since I run a similar # of agro cards I believe? Im guessing it's the playgroup.
Id say there's a monor or 85%+ red deck in almost every draft. Sometimes two in an 8 man.

I try to avoid all the RR creatures in decks without 12 red mana sources anyway... But I get mostly red decks a fair bit with 12 red sources.

Keep in mind too, regarding the 'missing a one drop':

You can just play a different 2-drop instead of this guy, so you can trigger it the next turn. Well, what if you don't have another 2-drop?

...

Why are you keeping hands with no 1s and a single 2 for an aggressive deck??

-AA

Quote from Antknee42 »

You can just play a different 2-drop instead of this guy, so you can trigger it the next turn.

That is something I overlooked, thanks for that insight AA.

I like this guy just as much as the other 1R 3/2s in theory now. He's still worse with moxes, but that's pretty minor.

I think Ash Zealot is the best RR costed beater, but 1R is so much better for so many decks that it's hard to justify including him over a ton of other cards.

I really like him too though and I'd play him at 450+ but I think his time for 360 is nearing its end.