Can I swap this guy in for Hero of Oxid Ridge? I am slightly concerned that there will be even more 4 cmc noncreature permanents with Chandra and Koth, but that deck building choice already existed with Hero (kind of)
I don't think they really compete with one another. And no, I wouldn't cut Hero for it anyways. As much as I love Purphoros, Hero of Oxid Ridge is a monster.
Can I swap this guy in for Hero of Oxid Ridge? I am slightly concerned that there will be even more 4 cmc noncreature permanents with Chandra and Koth, but that deck building choice already existed with Hero (kind of)
No. Hero is a premium 4 drop.
The top 3 are hellrider, koth and Hero. There's a pretty big drop in powerlevel after that and don't really think thats debatable.
I prefer purphorous to chandra in cube, but that is debatable.
Purphoros is really really good. It can win the game incrementally or serve as a combo 2 card kill with Tempt with Vengeance. That effect is so good and so unique, I consider it a staple for my cube at this point. If I HAD to choose between this and Chandra, I would choose Purphoros.
No. Hero is a premium 4 drop.
The top 3 are hellrider, koth and Hero. There's a pretty big drop in powerlevel after that and don't really think thats debatable.
I prefer purphorous to chandra in cube, but that is debatable.
Personally believe FTK is at a noticeably lower power level than Hero..
In a red agro deck at least.
FTK is just too weak against creature light decks or decks trying to do unfair things. Which id estimate make up about 20-30% of the decks at a table?
(Still think its a solid card and a card I love to have for it's roll in multiple archetypes and it being easily splashable)
Personally believe FTK is at a noticeably lower power level than Hero..
In a red agro deck at least.
FTK is just too weak against creature light decks or decks trying to do unfair things. Which id estimate make up about 20-30% of the decks at a table?
(Still think its a solid card and a card I love to have for it's roll in multiple archetypes and it being easily splashable)
Perhaps in a dedicated red aggressive deck vs. other creature-light decks it is, but even vs. those decks it can kill a Wall of Blossoms/Omens etc. and still provide a threat at the same time. Hero certainly is a more aggressive creature, but I certainly don't think that it is better in Cube than FTK is overall.
Well im clearly wrong anyway, said it was not debateable and smart people are debating me so....
Ill change my stance to debateably stronger =P
FTK is obviously better on defense and hence a better mid-range card. But is at least a full turn of damage slower on offense. Which is pretty huge when you consider he's often forcing in 4+ points of damage.
The only situation that FTK outshines hero on offense is if you don't have more creatures than them (for battlecry to be relevant) and the creatures that they are blocking with are > 1 power.
So they are at a highish life total, and have a board position that is very close to par.
At that point you are probably losing anyway heh.
Then take into consideration times they are blocking with tokens, or are lowish life and trying to stabalize, is why I think hero is that much more powerful.
Is it weird that I consider chandra, the firebrand a really solid red card at 360? Copying instants can just be so efficient, especially after cutting down a 1 power threat or blocker.
sorry, the conversation seemed to have devolved into red 4 drops.
Is it weird that I consider chandra, the firebrand a really solid red card at 360? Copying instants can just be so efficient, especially after cutting down a 1 power threat or blocker.
sorry, the conversation seemed to have devolved into red 4 drops.
I don't play 360 but that has been my experience too. There seems to always be a some nutty card worth doubling when I play her or against her.
FTK isn't always the best aggro curve-topper, but it's really good at removing a midrange threat that's clogging up the board for your attackers. So when it's valuable, it's really valuable because it helps out in your worst matchup. I still think the hastey guys are better because they can close out a game or bring the defensive player into burn range before the wrath goes off, but FTK is definitely valuable, even in aggro.
I've just taken out the Firebrand a few months ago. I do share the same positive experiences as both of you... And I agree she's better in smaller cubes.
To be fair, hero doesn't really care about Wall of Blossoms or Wall of Omens either.
Ha, true! I guess my point was more that FTK is far from worthless in those matchups. It also really shines against the square pegs that control and midrange use (like the Baloths).
The splashability and the potential for abuse is also what gives FTK a leg up overall in my mind. TBH, I can't imagine cubing without both so it might be a mostly moot point.
I know it's a corner case and I'm not sure if it was already mentioned... This guy is instawin with the Reveillark/Karmic Guide combo (Mirror Entity)! Nice little bonus on an already high performing card.
This card has been way better than we expected & is now solidly in our 540. He goes great with green (and white to a lesser extent). I was able to ramp him out on turn 3 last week with my R/G midrange deck. I then went T-4 Siege-Gang & T-5 Deranged Hermit. Pretty insane. It also combos well with Goblin Bombardment which we just added and has also overperformed. Those cards often go in the same deck and represent a ton of damage when combined with any card that makes tokens. I like both cards because as long as the spell resolves it guarantees damage.
I would test both cards at 450 and they should be run in anything 540+.
I just wanted to post again about how insane Purphoros has been in our Cube. There’s a 3 card “package” that has become its own archetype in the Cube. Those cards are Purphoros, Goblin Bombardment and Tempt with Vengeance. The goal of Purphoros isn’t to make him a creature. The goal is to get as many recurring threats, armies in a can and token generators as you can get and also draft tutors (Demonic, Vampiric, Enlightened, Worldly, Survival of the Fittest, etc.) to get Purphoros into your hand. I’ve drafted this deck quite a bit on Cube Tutor and also tonight in a 4 player draft and even in average builds it can steal wins out of nowhere. The key is to resolve Purphoros and live long enough to kill your opponent with it.
I find most decks end up being R/G because those are the most consistent builds for it. I think R/W could also ultimately work but I haven’t been able to put one together yet. No tutors in this deck make it a less consistent Purphoros deck but even without its namesake card it’s still a fine R/G midrange deck. Goblin Bombardment gives decks with Purphoros extra reach by essentially being a Lightning Bolt to the face for every creature that enters play. Even with just Purphoros, cards like Myr Battlesphere and Hornet Queen do 10 damage by themselves and cards like Siege-Gang Commander deal 8 damage.
This deck had one of my greatest Cube moments where I got a turn 4 kill solely off Purphoros. Needless to say it involved Tempt with Vengeance and a ton of mana. Getting Bitterblossom in play with Purphoros was cute as I shocked my opponent every turn. Again, even without Purphoros this is a solid R/G-based midrange deck.
I’ve also done sweet things like have Purphoros in play with cards like Mimic Vat to give even more inevitability. I’m at the point now where I even look to splash Purphoros in token-heavy decks as another angle of attack. He’s so hard to defend because he doesn’t damage your opponent in a “traditional” way. Short of a counter, bounce spell or O-Ring, Purphoros will stay on the board for the entire game.
Another reason why I’m enjoying Purphoros so much is because it’s kind of a combo card. You can draft a deck around it, add it to any token/creature heavy deck or combo it with cards like Tempt with Vengeance to just win the game out of nowhere. Tonight I was dead on board to my opponent’s Grave Titan when I ripped Myr Battlesphere off the top with my opponent at 6 life. 24 damage that game all came from Purphoros.
TL;DR, Purphoros is designed as an enchantment and shouldn’t be thought of an aggro card nor should he be put in a deck with the intent of having him become a creature. He should be in decks where his explosive damage potential can be maximized by pairing him with cards that make multiple creatures as well as cards that assist him like Goblin Bombardment and tutors to get Purphoros into your hand.
All Cubes should test the three card package of Purphoros, Goblin Bombardment and Tempt with Vengeance.
I've since cut Bombardment, but Purphoros has been stellar, and Tempt with Vengeance is a better card than most people think. I recommend adding those in, in addition to Greater Gargadon and Young Pyromancer as part of the red "token" package.
I'm still running Goblin Bombardment, but I agree that Purphoros is part of the token package. I've been very happy with pushing tokens in my cube. Though mostly W/R/G, it spans all five colours to some extent, making it an archetype that has a lot of variety and resists "autopilot" drafting.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Purphoros hasn't done squat for me since I added him a couple of months ago. Spending turn 4 to "do nothing" immediately seems like such a huge tempo loss that everyone is afraid to do it. Sure it combos with Tempt With Vengeance, Deranged Hermit and other token cards, but that seems extremely narrow. He's very close to getting the cut in my cube.
I'm still running Bombardment as well and I don't think I'll cut it any time soon, the card has been a total beast for us. Purphoros has also been super fun. One token supporting card I've been testing that hasn't pulled it's weight is Ogre Battledriver. It seemed great on paper but the extra support isn't really needed. Hellrider and Hero already play great with tokens and Purphoros basically does the same thing but better. So I'm going to cut if for Burning of Xinye because I want more chances to play Wildfire.dec
I've only seen him in one draft. He was in a Naya tokens build with Xenagos, Elspeth, Cloudgoat Ranger, and Tempt with Vengeance. He dished out a lot of damage. I'm dying to get him in a deck with Bitterblossom--I don't mind taking a damage in exchange for a flying token, especially when my opponent will be taking two.
I honestly can't think of many times that any of the Theros block gods became creatures, but the ones that I've ran have been great for just being enchantments.
He is on the bubble for me. I think his days are numbered, I am trying out empty the warrens for a while, so he is staying in as long as I am evaluating it. End of the day he has been about even with Burn at the Stake. A card which is better than most think, but not nearly consistent enough.
For all the times I do something excellent with him, I try to think of all the other 4 drop red badasses I don't cube. He is not winning very well in that comparison. And since he doesn't effect the board or save me in any way, the value is only on the ability to close out games. Avalanche Riders is knocking on his door.
At least with Thassa I have gotten to turn her on a couple of times.
I don't think they really compete with one another. And no, I wouldn't cut Hero for it anyways. As much as I love Purphoros, Hero of Oxid Ridge is a monster.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
No. Hero is a premium 4 drop.
The top 3 are hellrider, koth and Hero. There's a pretty big drop in powerlevel after that and don't really think thats debatable.
I prefer purphorous to chandra in cube, but that is debatable.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
Don't forget FTK!
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Personally believe FTK is at a noticeably lower power level than Hero..
In a red agro deck at least.
FTK is just too weak against creature light decks or decks trying to do unfair things. Which id estimate make up about 20-30% of the decks at a table?
(Still think its a solid card and a card I love to have for it's roll in multiple archetypes and it being easily splashable)
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Perhaps in a dedicated red aggressive deck vs. other creature-light decks it is, but even vs. those decks it can kill a Wall of Blossoms/Omens etc. and still provide a threat at the same time. Hero certainly is a more aggressive creature, but I certainly don't think that it is better in Cube than FTK is overall.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
Ill change my stance to debateably stronger =P
FTK is obviously better on defense and hence a better mid-range card. But is at least a full turn of damage slower on offense. Which is pretty huge when you consider he's often forcing in 4+ points of damage.
The only situation that FTK outshines hero on offense is if you don't have more creatures than them (for battlecry to be relevant) and the creatures that they are blocking with are > 1 power.
So they are at a highish life total, and have a board position that is very close to par.
At that point you are probably losing anyway heh.
Then take into consideration times they are blocking with tokens, or are lowish life and trying to stabalize, is why I think hero is that much more powerful.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
sorry, the conversation seemed to have devolved into red 4 drops.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I don't play 360 but that has been my experience too. There seems to always be a some nutty card worth doubling when I play her or against her.
Draft my cube!
Watch me stream!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Ha, true! I guess my point was more that FTK is far from worthless in those matchups. It also really shines against the square pegs that control and midrange use (like the Baloths).
The splashability and the potential for abuse is also what gives FTK a leg up overall in my mind. TBH, I can't imagine cubing without both so it might be a mostly moot point.
-AA
I use descriptive language. Assume that I'm being nice and respectful. (I'll tell you when I'm not.)
My Cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9029
I would test both cards at 450 and they should be run in anything 540+.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
As a point of reference, here’s a pretty traditional Purphoros deck:
http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/122475
I find most decks end up being R/G because those are the most consistent builds for it. I think R/W could also ultimately work but I haven’t been able to put one together yet. No tutors in this deck make it a less consistent Purphoros deck but even without its namesake card it’s still a fine R/G midrange deck. Goblin Bombardment gives decks with Purphoros extra reach by essentially being a Lightning Bolt to the face for every creature that enters play. Even with just Purphoros, cards like Myr Battlesphere and Hornet Queen do 10 damage by themselves and cards like Siege-Gang Commander deal 8 damage.
Here’s another Purphoros deck where I went kind of deep:
http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/120828
This deck had one of my greatest Cube moments where I got a turn 4 kill solely off Purphoros. Needless to say it involved Tempt with Vengeance and a ton of mana. Getting Bitterblossom in play with Purphoros was cute as I shocked my opponent every turn. Again, even without Purphoros this is a solid R/G-based midrange deck.
I’ve also done sweet things like have Purphoros in play with cards like Mimic Vat to give even more inevitability. I’m at the point now where I even look to splash Purphoros in token-heavy decks as another angle of attack. He’s so hard to defend because he doesn’t damage your opponent in a “traditional” way. Short of a counter, bounce spell or O-Ring, Purphoros will stay on the board for the entire game.
Another reason why I’m enjoying Purphoros so much is because it’s kind of a combo card. You can draft a deck around it, add it to any token/creature heavy deck or combo it with cards like Tempt with Vengeance to just win the game out of nowhere. Tonight I was dead on board to my opponent’s Grave Titan when I ripped Myr Battlesphere off the top with my opponent at 6 life. 24 damage that game all came from Purphoros.
TL;DR, Purphoros is designed as an enchantment and shouldn’t be thought of an aggro card nor should he be put in a deck with the intent of having him become a creature. He should be in decks where his explosive damage potential can be maximized by pairing him with cards that make multiple creatures as well as cards that assist him like Goblin Bombardment and tutors to get Purphoros into your hand.
All Cubes should test the three card package of Purphoros, Goblin Bombardment and Tempt with Vengeance.
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 380 Beginners’ Cube on Cube Tutor
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Visual Spoiler
Draft!
My 360 Commons Cube
Your favorite MTG website
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I honestly can't think of many times that any of the Theros block gods became creatures, but the ones that I've ran have been great for just being enchantments.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
For all the times I do something excellent with him, I try to think of all the other 4 drop red badasses I don't cube. He is not winning very well in that comparison. And since he doesn't effect the board or save me in any way, the value is only on the ability to close out games. Avalanche Riders is knocking on his door.
At least with Thassa I have gotten to turn her on a couple of times.