MTG Salvation

I was surprised to see no SCD threads on these. They've long been staples even in smaller cubes, but failed to impress me or my group time and time again. These are huge tempo losses that usually aren't high enough impact to make up for the cost you pay for them. A ton of creatures in my cube are threats whether you tap them or not, and having to pay 3+3 or 4 just for the privilege of tapping one guy for one combat is so slow. Tapping lands is cool, but again these cards are so glacial it usually is too little too late. Tapping artifacts is usually pointless. I'd almost always prefer any other card on turn 3 or 4.

Icy was in my cube for years. It was cut earlier this year simply for not doing enough.

Absolutely love both cards. Fantastic answers to sword and jitte equipped monster creatures, and they can shut down attacking creatures with evasion. They can also bind resources, remove blockers and shut down Maze. They're flexible cards that do a lot of stuff, and taking away their best threat, hampering equipment and manipulating resources are all great abilities to have on colorless cards.

It's never a "bad" play, and it provides an answer to multiple things that needs answering. Would I prefer to have a 4 drop creature more than an Icy Manipulator? Yeah sometimes, but I'm never dissapointed to play it.

Ring of Gix though I'm not the biggest fan of, the echo is just killer I found. I'd rather experiment with the artifact section.

I think Icy is incredible. It's super universal, and tapping down creatures with protection is kind of nuts. Ring of Gix is obviously worse, but sometimes tapping things down a turn earlier is the difference between winning and losing; there have definitely been games where an Icy would not have been enough. The effect is strong enough to warrant what is typically a worse Icy Manipulator in most situations in a lot of different cubes.

Have you ever been on the receiving end of getting your land tapped during your upkeep? It suuuuuuuuuucks. haha Icy is great, and can sometime be game changing.

Is the effect really good enough to run both copies? I cut the Ring recently because it wasn't being played nearly enough due to the echo cost. Should I be trying to work it back in?

I wouldn't work it back in. The huge tempo loss of tapping out multiple turns is not worth the effect in my experience.

Quote from Winterlude

Is the effect really good enough to run both copies? I cut the Ring recently because it wasn't being played nearly enough due to the echo cost. Should I be trying to work it back in?

I would definitely play both. It's a great effect, and it can tap down big sword-equipped threats and cheated fatties a turn faster than Icy can, which can be clutch. Additionally, being able to start disrupting their lands a turn earlier can be a big deal. On the play, you can keep them off their 4-drop or keep them off double-colored sorcery-speed cards like Wraths and 'walkers. I'm a fan of both cards.

I run both at 500 cards and neither is in danger of being cut.

Cheers,
rant

How could I ever cut the BONECRANK!

Both cards have gotten worse as the cube format has sped up, but the versatility is still very valuable, they're not on my watch list.

Quote from Wildfire393

What do people think about Scepter of Dominance? It loses the ability to get around protection (from White at least, which isn't the hugest deal) and is only playable in W decks, but it's an echoless Gix in those decks.

It just didn't get played enough. The effect, while solid, is already not "blow the doors off" spectacular, so limiting it to a single color (and not even close to splashable) was a killer.

The effects are a bit slow, but are very versatile, and a great way to set up the long game for control. I like that they help deal with cards that control struggles with (equipment, recursive creatures, manlands).

I am not generally an echo fan, but I do like Ring of Gix, and run it at 540. Being able to tap stuff on turn 4 is often worth paying 3+3 (think equiped badasses here) and it is occasionally better than Icy itself. I generally wait until I have four lands to play it, so that I get value out of it both turns.

I like scepter more than icy or ring, but the bar is set a lot higher for a heavy white card. There's just no room even in a larger list in my opinion.

Quote from Lasserini

I cut both (after giving both long periods of play due to their popularity here).

Its a brilliant card in midrange goodstuff.deck vs midrange goodstuff.deck -- Far too often it was a dead draw/too little too late for the control player under pressure & aggro decks have about 100 betters cards to include at the 4cc spot.

In a slower metagame I could see the appeal, but for us Maze of Ith sets the standard for what disabling a sword equipped creature needs to cost to be worthwhile.

I think this post explains it better than I did above.

Quote from Lasserini

In a slower metagame I could see the appeal, but for us Maze of Ith sets the standard for what disabling a sword equipped creature needs to cost to be worthwhile.

So if they printed Icy at 1 or 2, you would not run them because they are not free?

Quote from Phantizle

It just didn't get played enough. The effect, while solid, is already not "blow the doors off" spectacular, so limiting it to a single color (and not even close to splashable) was a killer.

The effects are a bit slow, but are very versatile, and a great way to set up the long game for control. I like that they help deal with cards that control struggles with (equipment, recursive creatures, manlands).

I am not generally an echo fan, but I do like Ring of Gix, and run it at 540. Being able to tap stuff on turn 4 is often worth paying 3+3 (think equiped badasses here) and it is occasionally better than Icy itself. I generally wait until I have four lands to play it, so that I get value out of it both turns.

Every last bit of this. I like Icy and Ring because of their versatility, and I didn't get that from Scepter because it requires a lot of white mana to cast and use right away.

Quote from Phantizle

So if they printed Icy at 1 or 2, you would not run them because they are not free?

For me, I think 2 with the activation cost or 3 without it is what I'd need to run it.

I still run Icy Manipulator because it is versatile, but I agree that it is very slow and often a bit late to the party. It is very likely that it is my next cut in the artifact section.

I also like them because they're one of the few outs in the cube to Ætherling; a card that's been tearing it up.

We run Icy and not Ring at 435, although I consider them on a similar power level. I feel it's a borderline include at this point, although it still has a home in true control builds.

I like them more in midrange decks where all aspects of the card are more valuable. They can preserve your life total, protect planeswalkers, tap down blockers, disrupt mana and help win the race. In dedicated control decks, they're used almost exclusively as a pseudo Prison Term to remove their biggest threat (which is still fine, but not as flexible).

Quote from wtwlf123

I like them more in midrange decks where all aspects of the card are more valuable. They can preserve your life total, protect planeswalkers, tap down blockers, disrupt mana and help win the race. In dedicated control decks, they're used almost exclusively as a pseudo Prison Term to remove their biggest threat (which is still fine, but not as flexible).

I can see the sense of that in theory, but in practice Icy doesn't make the cut in our midrange decks because those tend to have a lot of synergy going on, and Icy doesn't add anything there (except maybe stax, but even there it's pretty low on the wish list). If it's used here, it's in control decks for better wrath management.

All this is obviously very draft and playgroup specific, so I'm not saying you're wrong, just want to describe our experience.

Quote from Fredo

We run Icy and not Ring at 435, although I consider them on a similar power level. I feel it's a borderline include at this point, although it still has a home in true control builds.

I don't like them in control because they're so bad against aggro.