I'd say Farewell is a much, much more interesting card than Cleansing Nova. Being 5 mana over 6 is however a considerable downside, as a turns difference can make all the difference for a sweeper. However, if you were going purely for power perspective, the 4-mana versions which you have already ruled out would probably be the pick. So it sounds to me like for your cube environment, Farewell is the pick.
Have you considered Ondu Inversion or Realm-Cloaked Giant? I would consider these interesting options if I was looking for a sweeper that was a bit different to the normal 4-mana Wraths.
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Cubing in Oslo, Norway --- contact me if you want to join in!
I have an unpowered fair cube (list here) and I am struggling to find a decent 5cmc+ board sweeper (I already play WoD and DoJ and don't want to play all the functionnal reprints available at 4cmc, looking for a sweeper to replace the outdated Austere Command I recently cut).
So the match is : Cleansing Nova vs Farewell.
Thank You for your answers!
Of those 2, I think I'd play cleansing nova just because it's cheaper (unless you see the control decks regularly getting into situations where a 6-mana sweeper would have been good). Does it need to have the destroy artifacts and enchantments mode? If not I'd try fumigate - I think it's the best of the 5cmc sweeper options against aggro, which is where control struggles the most.
To answer your questions, here are a few more details:
-I used to play Rout at 5cmc, but it turned out that with the years passing by, 5 mana for a sweeper that destroys only creatures was a bit too much. Fumigate and Realm-Cloaked Giant caught my eye and may be better than Rout, but not by much. So I am looking towards a 5+cmc sweeper that does more than destroy creatures (going from Wrath of God+DoJ+Rout+Command to Wrath of God+DoJ+NewCard).
-I try to avoid functionnal reprints, and since I already play DoJ on top of Wrath of God, I'd really like my 3rd white board sweeper to be different. If I really were to play a third 4cmc board sweeper, I'd probably play Settle the Wreckage, since it's a little bit different.
-I agree that Farewell is a much more interesting card than Cleansing Nova, but 6 mana is also much more expensive than 5! That's basically why I am hesitating.
Edit: had to replace all the W o G instances with the full name of Wrath of God, as it turned out that W o G all attached is a pretty heinous insult, which I did not know (English is not my mother tongue)!
Have the chance to acquire one high-end card for my unpowered legacy cube. Which would be the better acquisition:
Mox Diamond, or Gaea’s Cradle?
Depends on what you want: Mox Diamond is the better general good stuff card and will see much more play, but Gaea's Cradle is a huge archetype payoff. From a finance standpoint, I think it might be better to get Cradle first since it's more expensive and its value might rise faster than Mox Diamond.
Have the chance to acquire one high-end card for my unpowered legacy cube. Which would be the better acquisition:
Mox Diamond, or Gaea’s Cradle?
Diamond will go in a lot more decks, but cradle will be more powerful in the decks specifically meant to take advantage of it. I'd vote Diamond so that the person who opens it in pack 3 can take it more of the time, which is a fun feeling.
They are both great cards, though, unless your cube never sees green decks that ramp with mana elves.
I would get a Cradle. Mox Diamond is more competitive but also there are more replaceable effects that are similar. Gaea’s Cradle is more unique and more fun.
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.
2 - Altar > Attrition. Whip depends on how much you need lifegain. The activated ability is not great, but granting lifelink can be important depending on how the rest of the cube looks.
3 - Portent > Careful Study. I'm not big on either of these, but more decks will want to play Portent.
I like Noble's Purse more, has a lot more synergies and doesn't lock you into a single color. The only advantage Coldsteel Heart has over it is that it can be used more than 3 times, and isn't randomly screwed over by Manglehorn's static ability.
My vote goes for Mox Diamond. But I will admit that I play Mox Diamond in my own cube, but not Gaea's Cradle. I think the card will see a lot more play, and see play in a lot of different situations/decks, compared to Cradle. I personally really like Mox Diamond - it's a super clean design and has fun interactions with the more loam-based strategies (Wrenn and Six and such).
1 - Ulvenwald Oddity vs Undermountain Adventure vs Timeless Witness ? What order ?
2 - Attrition vs Altar to Bhaal vs Whip of Erebos ? What order?
3 - Portent vs Careful Study ?
1. Very hard to compare, the three cards do completely different things. I think I personally would rank Ulvenwald Oddity on top, as hasty beaters have increased in value to clear out walkers, at least in my own meta. The other two cards are slower, more grindy cards. I personally don't like the design of Adventurer and probably would like to stay clear of adding "Taking the initiative" unless something very strong comes a long. I do really like the design of Timeless Witness, the eternalize feels great with looting and cards like Survival of the Fittest, or simply in super-ramp decks. So I would say
2. Again, fairly hard to compare. I think the new Altar of Bhaal seems better than Whip, but as mentioned - whip gets better if you need the lifelink. Attrition can be a fun deck if you lean towards the recursion style decks, but I personally don't think it is worth a cube slot - I would probably rank it over whip though.
3. Very different cards. Portent is a decent cantrip, ranking right under Opt/Consider in my book. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and in most cubes only reanimator would be interested. Not having the flashback of Faithless Looting really hurts its playability. In a vacuum I would therefore say
I like Portent a lot better than most people here I guess. I like card selection, and it's the only one on this list that offers much of it. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and I don't see it as very playable. Nor do I particularly like Opt at all. But Thought Scour has always been decent for me, and I think it's a good bit better than Careful Study, though you don't get to choose what goes to the grave.
I've still never tried consider, but it does have a mix of a lot of good traits.
- I feel Undermountain Adventure suffers from a similar problem as Court of Bounty. I prob rank it as Ulvenwald > Timeless > Undermountain. Timeless first if Pod is an archetype
- Attrition looked great on paper, but the double black to cast + 1 black to activate often meant I needed to wait a turn before activating. Whip is more of a reanimator/ welder card rather than an aristocrats attrition card. I think Altar has some potential (haven't tested) so I would rank it as Altar > Whip > Attrition.
- Portent > Careful Study. Portent digs 4 cards (shuffle), allows the player to cut lands (Turbo Xerox) + digs into combo pieces. I've found that Faithless Looting isn't that great in fair decks without sufficient graveyard synergies (and this is with the flashback). I'm skeptical towards Careful Study,
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Depends on what archetypes you have. Krenko is great in R/x aggro overall and pushes token themes. I have not played with Fable yet but it seems more like a midrange card.
Mazemind Tome > Treasure Map. Being able to draw cards and not pay mana to scry are huge.
Can go either way on the other two. Regent is a better finisher, Forager is a better value spell. If you want more spells matters support, Forager is the way to go. Ancestral Vision can be a better payoff card, but Portent is a tad bit more consistent and is easier to re-cast from the graveyard. Ancestral Vision does get a lot better if your cube is pretty grindy.
Voice of Resurgence > Qasali Pridemage >>> Torens, Fist of Angels.
Briarbridge Tracker > Lovestruck Beast > Chatterfang, Squirrel General. Would also like to write in Caldaia Guardian >>> all of those if that's a choice.
1. Qasali and Voice are both very good cards and I wouldn't fault anyone for playing either one of them. But I give the edge to Qasali.
The problem with Voice is 2 mana 2/2 is not a really good rate right now; I found the 3rd point of power/ toughness to be incredibly important in aggressive matches but also with pressure opposing walkers/ life total.
Qasali does qualify as a 2 mana 3/3 - If it comes down with a 1 drop or 2 drop on the field, its exalted can pump the creature the turn it comes down. Similarly, if its the first creature that comes down, it can attack for 3 on the following turn.
Qasali at its best is to blow up an opponent's critical artifact - Time vault/ Grim Monolith etc. but 70-80% of its time, its strength comes from its ability to threaten to blow up an artifact/ enchantment. It makes opposing swords useless, it can break up combos, it blow up something in response to a removal spell/ sweeper.
My experience drafting in the last 2-3 years (retail/ cube) is that cards have become much more snowball in nature - Ragavan/ Wreen and Six/ White Plume Adventurer/ planeswalkers etc. and operates on the bases of "This will incur value every turn it stays on the field". Voice likely provides the stronger value overall, but its inability to really "snowball" really hinders the card in 2022.
The problem is the recent printing of Cathar Commando/ Outland Liberator have pushed Qasali out of most cubes, but in all honestly, I think I may make room for all 3.
Qasali > Voice > Torens.
2. Chatterfang is what I consider a weak build around - its effect isn't that strong and it requires other cards to be good. These normally don't perform well in cube.
Lovestruck Beast suffers from the same problem as Voice is it doesn't "snowball" and can be answered 1 for 1. I've found the bar for 3 CMC cards is it needs to provide snowball value/ provide a strong utility - Courser/ Ramunap/ Reclamation Sage/ Eternal Witness etc. I also found the bar for Unga Bunga 3-4 drops is it needs haste (or trample). Green needs to be able to run into planeswalkers + race the opponent in order to be competitive.
I'm not that stoked about Tracker to be honest.
Tracker > Lovestruck > Chatterfang.
3. I'm not too stoked about either. But I would give the edge to Sorin for his ability to pump the team and give 2-3 damage the turn he comes in.
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I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Can't go wrong with either, but I give the edge to Thragtusk since it gains more life and leave the battle field trigger is so much more flexible than a death trigger.
Have you considered Ondu Inversion or Realm-Cloaked Giant? I would consider these interesting options if I was looking for a sweeper that was a bit different to the normal 4-mana Wraths.
Of those 2, I think I'd play cleansing nova just because it's cheaper (unless you see the control decks regularly getting into situations where a 6-mana sweeper would have been good). Does it need to have the destroy artifacts and enchantments mode? If not I'd try fumigate - I think it's the best of the 5cmc sweeper options against aggro, which is where control struggles the most.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
To answer your questions, here are a few more details:
-I used to play Rout at 5cmc, but it turned out that with the years passing by, 5 mana for a sweeper that destroys only creatures was a bit too much. Fumigate and Realm-Cloaked Giant caught my eye and may be better than Rout, but not by much. So I am looking towards a 5+cmc sweeper that does more than destroy creatures (going from Wrath of God+DoJ+Rout+Command to Wrath of God+DoJ+NewCard).
-I try to avoid functionnal reprints, and since I already play DoJ on top of Wrath of God, I'd really like my 3rd white board sweeper to be different. If I really were to play a third 4cmc board sweeper, I'd probably play Settle the Wreckage, since it's a little bit different.
-I agree that Farewell is a much more interesting card than Cleansing Nova, but 6 mana is also much more expensive than 5! That's basically why I am hesitating.
Edit: had to replace all the W o G instances with the full name of Wrath of God, as it turned out that W o G all attached is a pretty heinous insult, which I did not know (English is not my mother tongue)!
My Old School Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/19up
My High School Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/4hrlq
My Artifact Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/mirrodin4
My UN-Cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/1vc6p
[180 classic cube]
Mox Diamond, or Gaea’s Cradle?
Depends on what you want: Mox Diamond is the better general good stuff card and will see much more play, but Gaea's Cradle is a huge archetype payoff. From a finance standpoint, I think it might be better to get Cradle first since it's more expensive and its value might rise faster than Mox Diamond.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Diamond will go in a lot more decks, but cradle will be more powerful in the decks specifically meant to take advantage of it. I'd vote Diamond so that the person who opens it in pack 3 can take it more of the time, which is a fun feeling.
They are both great cards, though, unless your cube never sees green decks that ramp with mana elves.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
2 - Attrition vs Altar to Bhaal vs Whip of Erebos ? What order?
3 - Portent vs Careful Study ?
3 - Portent > Careful Study. I'm not big on either of these, but more decks will want to play Portent.
[180 classic cube]
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My vote goes for Mox Diamond. But I will admit that I play Mox Diamond in my own cube, but not Gaea's Cradle. I think the card will see a lot more play, and see play in a lot of different situations/decks, compared to Cradle. I personally really like Mox Diamond - it's a super clean design and has fun interactions with the more loam-based strategies (Wrenn and Six and such).
1. Very hard to compare, the three cards do completely different things. I think I personally would rank Ulvenwald Oddity on top, as hasty beaters have increased in value to clear out walkers, at least in my own meta. The other two cards are slower, more grindy cards. I personally don't like the design of Adventurer and probably would like to stay clear of adding "Taking the initiative" unless something very strong comes a long. I do really like the design of Timeless Witness, the eternalize feels great with looting and cards like Survival of the Fittest, or simply in super-ramp decks. So I would say
Ulvenwald Oddity > Timeless Witness > Undermountain Adventurer
2. Again, fairly hard to compare. I think the new Altar of Bhaal seems better than Whip, but as mentioned - whip gets better if you need the lifelink. Attrition can be a fun deck if you lean towards the recursion style decks, but I personally don't think it is worth a cube slot - I would probably rank it over whip though.
Altar of Bhaal > Attrition > Whip of Erebos
3. Very different cards. Portent is a decent cantrip, ranking right under Opt/Consider in my book. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and in most cubes only reanimator would be interested. Not having the flashback of Faithless Looting really hurts its playability. In a vacuum I would therefore say
Portent >> Careful Study
But Careful Study can provide a special effect if you play stuff like Dredge.
Consider > Portent > Thought Scour > Opt > Careful Study
I like Portent a lot better than most people here I guess. I like card selection, and it's the only one on this list that offers much of it. Careful Study is card disadvantage, and I don't see it as very playable. Nor do I particularly like Opt at all. But Thought Scour has always been decent for me, and I think it's a good bit better than Careful Study, though you don't get to choose what goes to the grave.
I've still never tried consider, but it does have a mix of a lot of good traits.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I wouldn't play either - I think the bar for 2 CMC artifact ramp should be it should be able to tap for mana the turn it comes into play.
- I feel Undermountain Adventure suffers from a similar problem as Court of Bounty. I prob rank it as Ulvenwald > Timeless > Undermountain. Timeless first if Pod is an archetype
- Attrition looked great on paper, but the double black to cast + 1 black to activate often meant I needed to wait a turn before activating. Whip is more of a reanimator/ welder card rather than an aristocrats attrition card. I think Altar has some potential (haven't tested) so I would rank it as Altar > Whip > Attrition.
- Portent > Careful Study. Portent digs 4 cards (shuffle), allows the player to cut lands (Turbo Xerox) + digs into combo pieces. I've found that Faithless Looting isn't that great in fair decks without sufficient graveyard synergies (and this is with the flashback). I'm skeptical towards Careful Study,
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
[180 classic cube]
Depends on what archetypes you have. Krenko is great in R/x aggro overall and pushes token themes. I have not played with Fable yet but it seems more like a midrange card.
1- Treasure Map vs Mazemind Tome ?
2- Murktide Regent vs Ethereal Forager?
3- Ancestral Vision vs Portent?
Mazemind Tome > Treasure Map. Being able to draw cards and not pay mana to scry are huge.
Can go either way on the other two. Regent is a better finisher, Forager is a better value spell. If you want more spells matters support, Forager is the way to go. Ancestral Vision can be a better payoff card, but Portent is a tad bit more consistent and is easier to re-cast from the graveyard. Ancestral Vision does get a lot better if your cube is pretty grindy.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
1- Qasali Pridemage vs Voice of Resurgence vs Torens, Fist of the Angels? What order ?
2- Chatterfang, Squirrel General vs Briarbridge Tracker vs Lovestruck Beast? What order?
3- Sorin, Lord of Innistrad vs Kaya, Ghost Assassin?
Voice of Resurgence > Qasali Pridemage >>> Torens, Fist of Angels.
Briarbridge Tracker > Lovestruck Beast > Chatterfang, Squirrel General. Would also like to write in Caldaia Guardian >>> all of those if that's a choice.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad > Kaya, Ghost Assassin.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
1. Qasali and Voice are both very good cards and I wouldn't fault anyone for playing either one of them. But I give the edge to Qasali.
The problem with Voice is 2 mana 2/2 is not a really good rate right now; I found the 3rd point of power/ toughness to be incredibly important in aggressive matches but also with pressure opposing walkers/ life total.
Qasali does qualify as a 2 mana 3/3 - If it comes down with a 1 drop or 2 drop on the field, its exalted can pump the creature the turn it comes down. Similarly, if its the first creature that comes down, it can attack for 3 on the following turn.
Qasali at its best is to blow up an opponent's critical artifact - Time vault/ Grim Monolith etc. but 70-80% of its time, its strength comes from its ability to threaten to blow up an artifact/ enchantment. It makes opposing swords useless, it can break up combos, it blow up something in response to a removal spell/ sweeper.
My experience drafting in the last 2-3 years (retail/ cube) is that cards have become much more snowball in nature - Ragavan/ Wreen and Six/ White Plume Adventurer/ planeswalkers etc. and operates on the bases of "This will incur value every turn it stays on the field". Voice likely provides the stronger value overall, but its inability to really "snowball" really hinders the card in 2022.
The problem is the recent printing of Cathar Commando/ Outland Liberator have pushed Qasali out of most cubes, but in all honestly, I think I may make room for all 3.
Qasali > Voice > Torens.
2. Chatterfang is what I consider a weak build around - its effect isn't that strong and it requires other cards to be good. These normally don't perform well in cube.
Lovestruck Beast suffers from the same problem as Voice is it doesn't "snowball" and can be answered 1 for 1. I've found the bar for 3 CMC cards is it needs to provide snowball value/ provide a strong utility - Courser/ Ramunap/ Reclamation Sage/ Eternal Witness etc. I also found the bar for Unga Bunga 3-4 drops is it needs haste (or trample). Green needs to be able to run into planeswalkers + race the opponent in order to be competitive.
I'm not that stoked about Tracker to be honest.
Tracker > Lovestruck > Chatterfang.
3. I'm not too stoked about either. But I would give the edge to Sorin for his ability to pump the team and give 2-3 damage the turn he comes in.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Workshop Warchief vs Thragtusk
Can't go wrong with either, but I give the edge to Thragtusk since it gains more life and leave the battle field trigger is so much more flexible than a death trigger.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra