The Peasant subforum has a This or That, and they'll probably have more firsthand experience with these cards in a cube environment, but here are my favorites out of those:
1 - I assume you're looking for 1 cut?
...
4 - Again, you are wondering which one to cut?
Thanks guys, yeah, for those with three options, it was very much "Is it worth dropping one of the two existing cards to get this KLD card in?"
I tend to bring this cube in here given its cut-down mechanics, but I do throw it past the Peasant thread too on occasion.
Looks like I'll bring all of the new cards in apart from Dhund Operative. Thanks for your help!
Actually, looking at my cube I can cut Abyssal Persecutor for Gearhulk.
I found vapors too slow for the matchups where it is in theory supposed to shine, for what it's worth. I think it's the at best the 5th best edict effect (diabolic and chainers, 2 mana is huge against the decks trying to cheat a big threat into play, liliana, and far//away are all better, and I might even be forgetting one). I've never played with persecutor, but it certainly seems more interesting a card than vapors.
Agree with asmallcat. Persecutor is really powerful with even minimal sacrifice outlets. I've never seen anyone lose a game to the drawback.
I like Persecutor quite a bit and have also never seen anybody lose to his drawback. That being said, he's a bit boring to draft / build with and is ultimately cube filler for me. Consuming Vapors is getting worse with all the token generators, and Gearhulk needs to cost 5. That being said, they're all still passable and I still need to fill a slot. I think I'm going to test Gearhulk for a bit and just wait until something better comes along.
Great Abyssal Persecutor story that I had recently: I was playing a 3-man multiplayer game and stole my opponent's Abyssal Persecutor with Gilded Drake to take down his planeswalkers. One Fact or Fiction and several Recurring Nightmare / Prime Time loops later, I found myself to just two cards left in my library and no way to deal with my Persecutor (my Recurring Nightmare eventually got countered). I attacked with Prime Time and decided to look what was left in my library and saw that I still had AEtherling and Pernicious Deed and realized I could still win if I draw the AEtherling first. The next turn I luckily drew the AEtherling and took one of my opponents to zero (not dead yet because I had Persecutor). Next turn I go all in with AEtherling / Persecutor on my other opponent, taking him down to zero too and cast / blew up everything with Pernicious Deed ftw. I'm pretty happy with retiring Abyssal Persecutor on that note.
Vapors was very underwhelming for me against aggressive decks, it usually gained 2-3 life and did not really slow down the clock considering it costs 4 mana. So I'd say Gearhulk >> Vapors > Persecutor
That being said, he's a bit boring to draft / build with and is ultimately cube filler for me.
Daaammmmn. This is how I know the gap between a lower rare cube and high power cubes is getting really really large. I had to cut persecutor (despite loving the design) for being too good in my list. 6/6 flying tramplers for 4 are just too unfair. Some decks simply cannot get rid of that, and it's virtually impossible to kill it in combat or chump it effectively. So there are games that just comes down and if you can't race it, the game is over.
I feel that both Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard suffer from the ever increasing tempo in Cube decks, at least for smaller lists. But I agree with wtwlf123, I'd probably add neither or both.
Angel of Invention > Baneslayer Angel > Cloudgoat Ranger
Cloudgoat Ranger's role is diminished with Angel of Invention in town, so that bumps him down since Baneslayer Angel plays a completely different role. If you really want to go all in tokens though, Ranger > Baneslayer
I think Cloudgoat is a better card than Baneslayer, but Cloudgoat is a better cut for Angel of Invention because of the role they play and the decks they're drafted for. So I agree with steve_man's ranking. Not on powerlevel, but on their importance for the cube.
I'd cut F&F and L&S and add War and Peace. Sword decks tend to want to kill ASAP and care less about GY shenanigans, and War and Peace seems to be on more than L&S in my experience. Realistically I'd try to play them all but if you had to make a switch that would be the one I do.
I want to fit Fleetwheel Cruiser in my 360 powered, but I need to make a cut from my colorless section and it's kind of tight. I'm thinking one of the 3CMC swords cycle has to go. My gut reaction is this order:
1) Body and Mind
2) Light and Shadow
3) War and Peace
4/5) Fire and Ice - Feast and Famine
Body and Mind is my #1 pick because my group often complains that it isn't fun to get milled out (but I'm still running Nemesis of Reason, so if I drop the sword I might have to drop the horror for something else, too).
Light and Shadow is #2 because it's boring and not very impactful usually.
War and Peace as my last choice because I don't like the effect despite being powerful.
And F/I-F/F won't be getting cut so they aren't even in the running.
Here's my Colorless section for reference. Maybe I'm coming at this wrong and thinking of it like Grafted Wargear 2.0/pseudo-equipment.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Winter Orb
Smokestack
Sensei’s Divining Top
Tangle Wire
Pithing Needle
Mimic Vat
Karn Liberated
Crystal Shard
Crucible of Worlds
Black Vise
Grim Monolith
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Diamond
Mana Vault
Mana Crypt
Coalition Relic
Black Lotus
Umezawa’s Jitte
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Body and Mind
Sword of War and Peace
Skullclamp
Grafted Wargear
Bonesplitter
Batterskull
Wurmcoil Engine
Hangarback Walker
Solemn Simulacrum
Sundering Titan
Phyrexian Revoker
Phyrexian Metamorph
Myr Battlesphere
Thanks guys, yeah, for those with three options, it was very much "Is it worth dropping one of the two existing cards to get this KLD card in?"
I tend to bring this cube in here given its cut-down mechanics, but I do throw it past the Peasant thread too on occasion.
Looks like I'll bring all of the new cards in apart from Dhund Operative. Thanks for your help!
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I found vapors too slow for the matchups where it is in theory supposed to shine, for what it's worth. I think it's the at best the 5th best edict effect (diabolic and chainers, 2 mana is huge against the decks trying to cheat a big threat into play, liliana, and far//away are all better, and I might even be forgetting one). I've never played with persecutor, but it certainly seems more interesting a card than vapors.
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http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
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I like Persecutor quite a bit and have also never seen anybody lose to his drawback. That being said, he's a bit boring to draft / build with and is ultimately cube filler for me. Consuming Vapors is getting worse with all the token generators, and Gearhulk needs to cost 5. That being said, they're all still passable and I still need to fill a slot. I think I'm going to test Gearhulk for a bit and just wait until something better comes along.
Great Abyssal Persecutor story that I had recently: I was playing a 3-man multiplayer game and stole my opponent's Abyssal Persecutor with Gilded Drake to take down his planeswalkers. One Fact or Fiction and several Recurring Nightmare / Prime Time loops later, I found myself to just two cards left in my library and no way to deal with my Persecutor (my Recurring Nightmare eventually got countered). I attacked with Prime Time and decided to look what was left in my library and saw that I still had AEtherling and Pernicious Deed and realized I could still win if I draw the AEtherling first. The next turn I luckily drew the AEtherling and took one of my opponents to zero (not dead yet because I had Persecutor). Next turn I go all in with AEtherling / Persecutor on my other opponent, taking him down to zero too and cast / blew up everything with Pernicious Deed ftw. I'm pretty happy with retiring Abyssal Persecutor on that note.
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100% this. If the Gearhulk were one mana cheaper, it might beat out Vapors, but as is, I think this is a good ranking.
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Daaammmmn. This is how I know the gap between a lower rare cube and high power cubes is getting really really large. I had to cut persecutor (despite loving the design) for being too good in my list. 6/6 flying tramplers for 4 are just too unfair. Some decks simply cannot get rid of that, and it's virtually impossible to kill it in combat or chump it effectively. So there are games that just comes down and if you can't race it, the game is over.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
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Angel of Invention
Cloudgoat Ranger
Baneslayer Angel
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Cloudgoat Ranger's role is diminished with Angel of Invention in town, so that bumps him down since Baneslayer Angel plays a completely different role. If you really want to go all in tokens though, Ranger > Baneslayer
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Is it doable to cut one of:
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Body and Mind
Grafted Wargear
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tell them to pull the triggercut Feast and Famine.My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
1) Body and Mind
2) Light and Shadow
3) War and Peace
4/5) Fire and Ice - Feast and Famine
Body and Mind is my #1 pick because my group often complains that it isn't fun to get milled out (but I'm still running Nemesis of Reason, so if I drop the sword I might have to drop the horror for something else, too).
Light and Shadow is #2 because it's boring and not very impactful usually.
War and Peace as my last choice because I don't like the effect despite being powerful.
And F/I-F/F won't be getting cut so they aren't even in the running.
Here's my Colorless section for reference. Maybe I'm coming at this wrong and thinking of it like Grafted Wargear 2.0/pseudo-equipment.
Winter Orb
Smokestack
Sensei’s Divining Top
Tangle Wire
Pithing Needle
Mimic Vat
Karn Liberated
Crystal Shard
Crucible of Worlds
Black Vise
Grim Monolith
Sol Ring
Mox Sapphire
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Mox Diamond
Mana Vault
Mana Crypt
Coalition Relic
Black Lotus
Umezawa’s Jitte
Sword of Light and Shadow
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Body and Mind
Sword of War and Peace
Skullclamp
Grafted Wargear
Bonesplitter
Batterskull
Wurmcoil Engine
Hangarback Walker
Solemn Simulacrum
Sundering Titan
Phyrexian Revoker
Phyrexian Metamorph
Myr Battlesphere
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