Elspeth Knight-Errant > Gideon, Ally of Zendikar > The Wandering Emperor. I could see playing The Wandering Emperor over Gideon though to diversify a bit since Elspeth and Gideon are extremely similar.
My 420 card Unpowered Vintage Cube:
- Cube Cobra (up-to-date)
- MTG Salvation (outdated; my posts seem to have been deleted at some point, unfortunately)
this depends so much on the cube composition it’s really hard to rank.
All I know is swords is at the top , councils judgement/path is near the top and fateful abscence is near the bottom.
I’m also not a fan of swift reconfiguration at all.
Underperformed hard for me in every cube I played it in.
I even included 2 copies of it for a while to live the devoted Druid combo dream.
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
I'm contrasting your list relative to other popular cube lists, my own and the MTGO vintage cube.
You run less reanimator support than all of them and you run a cube with ~30% more cards.
You have less discard outlets, reanimator spells and top end (in L to R order).
You also have less black sweepers, which are good supplemental cards for reanimator.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's likely why reanimator is underperforming.
Top 10 recommended additions
1) Massacre Wurm
2) Makeshift Mannequin
3) Profane Tutor (storm + reanimator + creature combo)
4) The Meathook Massacre
5) Bone shards
6) The Cruelty of Gix
7) Persist
8) Unmarked Grave
9) Ashen Rider
10) Tainted Indulgence
Top 10 recommended cuts
1) Sedgemoor witch
2) Soul Shatter
3) Cut down
4) Puppeteer clique (ignore if there's a win the game combo Im missing)
5) Agadeeem's Awakening
6) Tainted pact
7) Hero's downfall
8) Shriekmaw
9) Anguished Unmaking
10) Dimir card
It's tough to support black agro, storm, creature combo AND reanimator properly.
I'm confident in the quality of the suggested additions, but not in what's best to cut.
I don't envy making cuts in black!
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
I'm contrasting your list relative to other popular cube lists, my own and the MTGO vintage cube.
You run less reanimator support than all of them and you run a cube with ~30% more cards.
You have less discard outlets, reanimator spells and top end (in L to R order).
You also have less black sweepers, which are good supplemental cards for reanimator.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's likely why reanimator is underperforming.
Top 10 recommended additions
1) Massacre Wurm
2) Makeshift Mannequin
3) Profane Tutor (storm + reanimator + creature combo)
4) The Meathook Massacre
5) Bone shards
6) The Cruelty of Gix
7) Persist
8) Unmarked Grave
9) Ashen Rider
10) Tainted Indulgence
Top 10 recommended cuts
1) Sedgemoor witch
2) Soul Shatter
3) Cut down
4) Puppeteer clique (ignore if there's a win the game combo Im missing)
5) Agadeeem's Awakening
6) Tainted pact
7) Hero's downfall
8) Shriekmaw
9) Anguished Unmaking
10) Dimir card
It's tough to support black agro, storm, creature combo AND reanimator properly.
I'm confident in the quality of the suggested additions, but not in what's best to cut.
I don't envy making cuts in black!
Thank you for a very detailed response. I really appreciate it.
I will def try to go +1 reanimation spell/ +1 discard outlet/ +1 fatty.
- Massacre Worm for Soul Shatter is a no brainer. Recommendation taken 100%
- Tainted Pact for Dragonlord Silumgar. Recommendation taken. (Silumgar is my pet card :()
- I don't think I can make another black cut, so I'm going to re-add Unburial Rites ... Yes its an old card, but 4c mana is very easy these days + providing Gifts Ungiven with a strong use outside of Past in Flames sounds like a good redundancy booster. Plus, I think having another 2 shot reanimation spell is a good add to help creature combo decks.
Plus, I've learned something recently is that secretly Balance is the best reanimation enabler if you think about it
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
this depends so much on the cube composition it’s really hard to rank.
All I know is swords is at the top , councils judgement/path is near the top and fateful abscence is near the bottom.
I’m also not a fan of swift reconfiguration at all.
Underperformed hard for me in every cube I played it in.
I even included 2 copies of it for a while to live the devoted Druid combo dream.
- Fateful/ Portable Hole are closest to the bottom for me.
- Oust has been somewhat decent for me, I recommend people give it a try.
I second what wtwlf said about Shatter/ Depopulate. I like to hear what people's thoughts about Terminus with the new mulligan rule.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Im also adding in veil of summer If anyone has experience/input on that.
I'd probably go with Thrun, Breaker of Silence / Carnage Tyrant if you're trying to get a one-up on control. Can't go wrong with either of the Thruns, but Thrun, the Last Troll can be walled by tokens where Breaker of Silence / Carnage Tyrant can't because of trample. Tyrannex Rex is more of a cheaty face / ramp / reanimator target, so I really wouldn't compare it to the other three.
Im also adding in veil of summer If anyone has experience/input on that.
veil of summer is a staple in my eyes. I’d include it at any size unless you are supporting tons of parasitic archetypes or no sideboards.
Thrunn, the last troll is the best of the cards you mentioned because it’s good against heavy U and against Agro.
Against specifically counter spell heavy control my guess is they all are very close together in power with 5 mana thrunn being the best.
Im experimenting with ways to improve mono g ,but haven’t had the reps to know if my experiments work.
1) uneven color sections (more green, more blue, less white)
2) “devotion” package. Nykthos + land untappers + utopia sprawl type cards
3) v high density of 1 mana ramp
4) top end that gets value through counter magic (hydroid Krasis, cityscape leveler)
Park map is a big card for mono G as finding gaea’s cradle is so important.
I'd play Omnath over Niv-Mizzet, having tried out both. Niv is too much investment both on deckbuilding and drafting, since it incentivizes picking a lot of guild cards.
Omnath is simply a good card that has synergy with cards of high value for any deck (fetchlands) and so will be able to fit and maybe even motivate several decks.
T&G vs Siege Rhino: I never played with Siege Rhino, but in this day and age I would not want to use a wedge-slot for this. Not due to powerlevel, which might differ for cubes, but since it is not a card that motivates me exploring the wedge for a deck. T&G does a lot of things relevant for Abzan colours and thus suits the wedge.
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I agree with this.
[180 classic cube]
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Swift Reconfiguration
Portable Hole
Prismatic Ending
March of Otherworldly Light
Unexpectedly Absent
Fateful Absence
Planar Disruption
Council's Judgment
Leyline Binding
Thank you
- Cube Cobra (up-to-date)
- MTG Salvation (outdated; my posts seem to have been deleted at some point, unfortunately)
this depends so much on the cube composition it’s really hard to rank.
All I know is swords is at the top , councils judgement/path is near the top and fateful abscence is near the bottom.
I’m also not a fan of swift reconfiguration at all.
Underperformed hard for me in every cube I played it in.
I even included 2 copies of it for a while to live the devoted Druid combo dream.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Depopulate
Shatter the Sky
Doomskar
Realm-Cloaked Giant
Terminus
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- Goryo's Vengeance
- Makeshift Mannequin
- Victimize
- Dread Return
- Persist
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Persist and pair it with Unmarked Grave.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I'm contrasting your list relative to other popular cube lists, my own and the MTGO vintage cube.
You run less reanimator support than all of them and you run a cube with ~30% more cards.
You have less discard outlets, reanimator spells and top end (in L to R order).
You also have less black sweepers, which are good supplemental cards for reanimator.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's likely why reanimator is underperforming.
Top 10 recommended additions
1) Massacre Wurm
2) Makeshift Mannequin
3) Profane Tutor (storm + reanimator + creature combo)
4) The Meathook Massacre
5) Bone shards
6) The Cruelty of Gix
7) Persist
8) Unmarked Grave
9) Ashen Rider
10) Tainted Indulgence
Top 10 recommended cuts
1) Sedgemoor witch
2) Soul Shatter
3) Cut down
4) Puppeteer clique (ignore if there's a win the game combo Im missing)
5) Agadeeem's Awakening
6) Tainted pact
7) Hero's downfall
8) Shriekmaw
9) Anguished Unmaking
10) Dimir card
It's tough to support black agro, storm, creature combo AND reanimator properly.
I'm confident in the quality of the suggested additions, but not in what's best to cut.
I don't envy making cuts in black!
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Thank you for a very detailed response. I really appreciate it.
I will def try to go +1 reanimation spell/ +1 discard outlet/ +1 fatty.
- Massacre Worm for Soul Shatter is a no brainer. Recommendation taken 100%
- Tainted Pact for Dragonlord Silumgar. Recommendation taken. (Silumgar is my pet card :()
- I don't think I can make another black cut, so I'm going to re-add Unburial Rites ... Yes its an old card, but 4c mana is very easy these days + providing Gifts Ungiven with a strong use outside of Past in Flames sounds like a good redundancy booster. Plus, I think having another 2 shot reanimation spell is a good add to help creature combo decks.
Plus, I've learned something recently is that secretly Balance is the best reanimation enabler if you think about it
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
2- Tyrranax Rex vs Avenger of Zendikar?
3- Rona's Vortex vs Repeal?
Rex > Avenger (unless you have a deep lands matters theme)
Repeal > Vortex
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Repeal > Vortex
[180 classic cube]
- Fateful/ Portable Hole are closest to the bottom for me.
- Oust has been somewhat decent for me, I recommend people give it a try.
I second what wtwlf said about Shatter/ Depopulate. I like to hear what people's thoughts about Terminus with the new mulligan rule.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Agreed!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
depends on your black section.
If you run a fair # of creatures and/or support black Agro, yawgmoth is much better.
If it’s only control/reanimator/storm/midrange support I prefer Kalitas.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Im also adding in veil of summer If anyone has experience/input on that.
I'd probably go with Thrun, Breaker of Silence / Carnage Tyrant if you're trying to get a one-up on control. Can't go wrong with either of the Thruns, but Thrun, the Last Troll can be walled by tokens where Breaker of Silence / Carnage Tyrant can't because of trample. Tyrannex Rex is more of a cheaty face / ramp / reanimator target, so I really wouldn't compare it to the other three.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
veil of summer is a staple in my eyes. I’d include it at any size unless you are supporting tons of parasitic archetypes or no sideboards.
Thrunn, the last troll is the best of the cards you mentioned because it’s good against heavy U and against Agro.
Against specifically counter spell heavy control my guess is they all are very close together in power with 5 mana thrunn being the best.
Im experimenting with ways to improve mono g ,but haven’t had the reps to know if my experiments work.
1) uneven color sections (more green, more blue, less white)
2) “devotion” package. Nykthos + land untappers + utopia sprawl type cards
3) v high density of 1 mana ramp
4) top end that gets value through counter magic (hydroid Krasis, cityscape leveler)
Park map is a big card for mono G as finding gaea’s cradle is so important.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
2 - Omnath, Locus of Creation vs Niv-Mizzet Reborn?
Omnath is simply a good card that has synergy with cards of high value for any deck (fetchlands) and so will be able to fit and maybe even motivate several decks.
T&G vs Siege Rhino: I never played with Siege Rhino, but in this day and age I would not want to use a wedge-slot for this. Not due to powerlevel, which might differ for cubes, but since it is not a card that motivates me exploring the wedge for a deck. T&G does a lot of things relevant for Abzan colours and thus suits the wedge.