I am supporting storm and I think that grapeshot is pretty unplayable outside the Underworld Breach. It's never been main decked into a non storm spellslinger deck that I can remember. I'm of the same opinion of Empty though. I think I'd go Empty first because of the chump blocking to buy time mode but would prefer to run cards like Smoldering Egg or other things that trigger off your repeated spells. Monastery Mentor, the Stx Witch, and things like that can't win on the turn but aren't as bad in any situation other than the Underworld Breaching for the win turn.
I'm not a fan of either - I just don't want to have this situation where someone drafts a "storm deck" and has no win con.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think it depends on the environment. Looking at your list, I'd go with Glory-bound initiate. You have aggro threats in White, Black, Red and Green, so 1-toughness is likely to die, plus you have a lot of 2-mana 0/4s that Glory-bound can attack through.
Cutting the multicolor section in my 450 down from 5 to 4 cards per section in order to add 5 slots for artifacts and an additional slot for each color. Want some opinions on a few of these guilds.
Azorious
I'm cutting Soulherder for certain (Love the card - but just doesn't compete on power). Need help on Dream Trawler v. Supreme Verdict though. Dream Trawler is the bigger outlier I think, but I love the idea of Azorious having a classic control finisher. I'm not sure that I need another wrath, but including one could allow me to cut one of the weaker wrath variants (Doomskar) from my white section.
Golgari Abrupt Decay vs. Life//Death
I know Life//Death is the bigger outlier but reanimate even for one more is still very good. Decay is of course also a great card, but pretty redundant with other catch all multicolor removal (Pulse, Trophy).
Boros Boros Charm v. Lightning Helix v. Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
I used to run Isochron Scepter which I thought was pretty good w/ Boros Charm, but I have since cut the Scepter and I think that Boros Charm is probably worse than Lightning Helix so probably would leans towards cutting the charm. Could also cut Aurelia, but I think she's a strong draw to play a Boros deck and a nice top-end threat for a lot of R/W decks.
2. Ashiok, Nightmare Muse. I like Recoil so I'm clearly biased.
3. Both fairly good - But Fire // Ice is prob better. Saheeli is prob my cut when i need to cut to 9 guild cards in the coming days.
4. This is hard - But since your list is unpowered, I opt for Life // Death
5. Lightning Helix - Boros Charm might be on its way out for me.
6. Traditionally I would recommend keeping Nissa as the number of cards that ramp the number lands you have on the field is fairly low in cube right now - but you don't have Entreat the Angels or any cards that cares about the specific number of lands on the field (Field of the Dead, Time Spiral, Treachery, Nissa Vastewood Seer etc.) So I would recommend Edric.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I like Abbot the most out of all of those. Gatekeeper might be #2 if you have any combination of Strip Mine, Mox Diamond or Double-fetchlands. It still might be #2 if you don't. Might be #1 if you have all of those. No opinion on what #3 and #4 are.
Of note, the non-haste red 3-drop “army in a can” creatures dropped way down for me this past year. Also I’m a little higher on Endurance and lower on Cemetery Prowler than what seems to be the common sentiment.
1. Endurance is pretty good - Flash + Ambush is great vs aggressive decks, great vs combo decks to play around sweepers.
2. Menace has been an incredibly strong ability. However, I personally opted Garrison because I have an aristocrats/ Embercleave package in red.
3. Wight's Life Drain feels mostly like favor text - I would give the edge to Graf Reaver. It can exploit itself to remove a planeswalker.
4. I don't think a triple blue is playable in cube and on top of that, Archmage's Charm really doesn't feel that great. I would opt for a 2 CMC counter spell. I would almost never recommend playing a 3 CMC counter spell - Forbid is an exception. I'm not super onboard with it, but I could see it as a playable.
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2. I would like to try Cematary Gatekeeper - its ability to punish your opponent for playing lands/ storm decks feels invaluable. It feels like a "build around" as you do need a bit of a graveyard package to really get it going.
3. Oust is very good - it did drop off a bit with this package of good white 1 CMC removal - On Thin ice, Portahole, Solitude, Prismatic Ending etc. It used to be really high on my picks, but its still fairly efficient.
4. I would say Barrin is stronger. From my experience if you have two cards - one with a restricted CMC but is stronger and one with a less restrictive CMC but weaker, its usually the more restricted CMC card that wins. In general I found that cube decks often have more playables than they need (especially with cards like Ragavan/ Uro/ Rankle etc. that could literally be played in any deck), the more narrow, but stronger options is always the better choice.
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1 - Henrika > Dracolich > Shepherd - The only experience I have with Dracolich and Shepard are in the MTGO cubes. I was mildly impressed by Dracolich and haven't been impressed by Shepherd. I'm not terribly impressed by either, though, so I'd test Henrika if I were considering any of them. I don't know if it's actually better than either of them. And though Shepherd wasn't good for me in the MTGO cube, if it's been good in your environment, it could be the best for your environment.
2 - Very environment dependent, I think. Servitude is very good, but slow. In a more fast-paced environment, Persist is probably better. I only have experience with Servitude, though, so Persist might be better than I think it is.
3 - Forbid. I really don't like UUU on Charm. I don't think either card is a must-include, but I think more decks will be willing to play Forbid than Charm.
Doom Whisperer is an amazing card and has been a must answer permanent in my environment since you can't chump it. Death Tyrant however can also not favourably be chumped and reads like a very interesting card. I think Doom Whisperer is a faster clock in most boardstates, so I'd say it has an edge there.
I disagree and put Sarcomancy before Carnophage, as it does not cost 1 life all the time and is 2 permanents for 1 mana. Carrion Feeder is better or worse than both, depending on your Aristocrats support.
Also I'd go with Trostani Discordant (mv=3 is pretty stacked all around, especially in GW) and Doom Whisperer (both have no immediate value, so it's more of a preference thing).
- My experience with Carrion Feeder is primarily in Aristocrats/ Persist decks and I think its very good. I personally would opt for Carnophage as you don't have too many cards to take advantage of the enchantment-creature like Kor SkyFisher, Polymorph etc.
The life loss from Sarcomancy isn't irrelevant either and I find adding a card like Sarcomancy/ Carrion Feeder might mislead your drafters.
- Trostani Discordant just feels really bad
- Doom Whisper has performed fairly well for me - the Surveil has been decent actually. He's just been rotated out of my cube for me to give Ob Nixilis another shot.
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I'm expecting these cards to be primarily played in the Melira/ Persist deck - but bonus points if it can make it into other archetypes.
I'm leaning towards Path of Discovery for its ability to help explore into your combo and its harder to remove than the other combo pieces, but I've heard good things about The Great Henge - it is slightly on the win-more side, but I found cube games are so back and forth that I've found Maelstorm Wanderer into Oko and Uro wasn't enough.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Having played with the Great Henge and Renata, I'd say that the Henge will be the most universally useful card. Coincidentally, it plays very well with a more aggressively slanted green pattern using Mana Dorks and Midrange creatures - Imagine playing Questing Beast or similar beaters, enabling you to curve directly into the Henge while also giving you some insulation against a race (due to the lifegain) and turning topdecks of otherwise limited usefulness both into bigger threats and more gas. Frankly, that card is amazing.
Renata on the other hand is in purely for being an additional Persist enabler that I'll be happy to swap out as soon as a better one arrives. On the other hand, Renata is a creature, lending itself better to the Patterns of a Persist deck full of creature tutors and payoffs for creatures or sacrifice outlets.
In essence, The Great Henge can be used in Persist and is a generally very good card, whereas Renata is a more specific tool for a creature combo, which is even nicer since she herself is a creature. This last point brings me to why I'd never play Path of Discovery. It's not a creature and also a very unreliable part of the Combo since it can whiff - also, it does exactly nothing on its own, whereas the Henge ramps you and gains you life.
Having played with the Great Henge and Renata, I'd say that the Henge will be the most universally useful card. Coincidentally, it plays very well with a more aggressively slanted green pattern using Mana Dorks and Midrange creatures - Imagine playing Questing Beast or similar beaters, enabling you to curve directly into the Henge while also giving you some insulation against a race (due to the lifegain) and turning topdecks of otherwise limited usefulness both into bigger threats and more gas. Frankly, that card is amazing.
Renata on the other hand is in purely for being an additional Persist enabler that I'll be happy to swap out as soon as a better one arrives. On the other hand, Renata is a creature, lending itself better to the Patterns of a Persist deck full of creature tutors and payoffs for creatures or sacrifice outlets.
In essence, The Great Henge can be used in Persist and is a generally very good card, whereas Renata is a more specific tool for a creature combo, which is even nicer since she herself is a creature. This last point brings me to why I'd never play Path of Discovery. It's not a creature and also a very unreliable part of the Combo since it can whiff - also, it does exactly nothing on its own, whereas the Henge ramps you and gains you life.
I'll give The Great Henge a second try!
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I'm not a fan of either - I just don't want to have this situation where someone drafts a "storm deck" and has no win con.
Maybe Tendrils, Brain Freeze, Thassa's Oracle, Thousand Year, Sharknado is enough?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I think it depends on the environment. Looking at your list, I'd go with Glory-bound initiate. You have aggro threats in White, Black, Red and Green, so 1-toughness is likely to die, plus you have a lot of 2-mana 0/4s that Glory-bound can attack through.
[180 classic cube]
From my experience, the 1 toughness on any creature has been very problematic - I would avoid it as much as possible.
Hey sorry i completely missed this!
1. Supreme Verdict - I rather cut Dream Trawler and play a blue or white finished instead.
I think Linvala, the Preserver is a bit of a sleeper IMO
2. Ashiok, Nightmare Muse. I like Recoil so I'm clearly biased.
3. Both fairly good - But Fire // Ice is prob better. Saheeli is prob my cut when i need to cut to 9 guild cards in the coming days.
4. This is hard - But since your list is unpowered, I opt for Life // Death
5. Lightning Helix - Boros Charm might be on its way out for me.
6. Traditionally I would recommend keeping Nissa as the number of cards that ramp the number lands you have on the field is fairly low in cube right now - but you don't have Entreat the Angels or any cards that cares about the specific number of lands on the field (Field of the Dead, Time Spiral, Treachery, Nissa Vastewood Seer etc.) So I would recommend Edric.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
2- Wandering Mind vs Expressive Iteration vs Sprite Dragon ? What order ?
3- Graf Reaver vs Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia vs Skyclave Shade vs Glint-Sleeve Siphoner ? What order ?
4- Briarbridge Tracker vs Cemetery Prowler ?
Oddity >= Poulkranos >> Master
Iteration > Sprite > Mind
Shade > Siphoner > Reaver > Jadar
Tracker > Prowler
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
It can be tight but if you include the secondary win cons like Monastery Mentor, Young Pyro and Sedgemoor I think that is enough.
2 - "Cemetary Gatekeeper" (VOW spoiler) vs Abbot of Keral Keep vs Viashino Pyromancer vs Heartfire Immolator ? What order ?
3- Quarantine Field vs Oust in void ?
4 - Barrin, Tolarian Archmage vs Exclusion Mage ?
my cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/cjf
I think that's the correct order.
I like Abbot the most out of all of those. Gatekeeper might be #2 if you have any combination of Strip Mine, Mox Diamond or Double-fetchlands. It still might be #2 if you don't. Might be #1 if you have all of those. No opinion on what #3 and #4 are.
I like Oust more, but I think I rank Oust higher than most people typically do.
Barrin
[180 classic cube]
2 - Hanweir Garrison vs Reckless Stormseeker vs Rampaging Ferocidon ? What order ?
3 - Graf Reaver vs Wight ? For unpowered large cube that have lesser planeswalker density
4 - Archmage's Charm vs Neutralize ?
I’m going to bite on this one, because it’s a very tough this or that. Everything is extremely close.
1 - Endurance > Briarbridge Tracker > Cemetery Prowler
2 - Rampaging Ferocidon >> Reckless Stormseeker > Hanweir Garrison
3 - Graf Reaver >> Wight
4 - Archmage’s Charm > Neutralize
Of note, the non-haste red 3-drop “army in a can” creatures dropped way down for me this past year. Also I’m a little higher on Endurance and lower on Cemetery Prowler than what seems to be the common sentiment.
1. Endurance is pretty good - Flash + Ambush is great vs aggressive decks, great vs combo decks to play around sweepers.
2. Menace has been an incredibly strong ability. However, I personally opted Garrison because I have an aristocrats/ Embercleave package in red.
3. Wight's Life Drain feels mostly like favor text - I would give the edge to Graf Reaver. It can exploit itself to remove a planeswalker.
4. I don't think a triple blue is playable in cube and on top of that, Archmage's Charm really doesn't feel that great. I would opt for a 2 CMC counter spell. I would almost never recommend playing a 3 CMC counter spell - Forbid is an exception. I'm not super onboard with it, but I could see it as a playable.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
1. DRC is fairly very good.
2. I would like to try Cematary Gatekeeper - its ability to punish your opponent for playing lands/ storm decks feels invaluable. It feels like a "build around" as you do need a bit of a graveyard package to really get it going.
3. Oust is very good - it did drop off a bit with this package of good white 1 CMC removal - On Thin ice, Portahole, Solitude, Prismatic Ending etc. It used to be really high on my picks, but its still fairly efficient.
4. I would say Barrin is stronger. From my experience if you have two cards - one with a restricted CMC but is stronger and one with a less restrictive CMC but weaker, its usually the more restricted CMC card that wins. In general I found that cube decks often have more playables than they need (especially with cards like Ragavan/ Uro/ Rankle etc. that could literally be played in any deck), the more narrow, but stronger options is always the better choice.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
2- Persist vs Diabolic Servitude ?
3- Archmage's Charm vs Forbid ? SOmetimes I think the Forbid is a sacred cow in cube, because it seems so slow nowadays
2 - Very environment dependent, I think. Servitude is very good, but slow. In a more fast-paced environment, Persist is probably better. I only have experience with Servitude, though, so Persist might be better than I think it is.
3 - Forbid. I really don't like UUU on Charm. I don't think either card is a must-include, but I think more decks will be willing to play Forbid than Charm.
[180 classic cube]
2- Trostani Discordant vs Torens, Fist of the Angels?
3- Carrion Feeder vs Sarcomancy vs Carnophage? Whar order ?
my 720 unpowred cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/cjf
Can't help with the first 2 much but with your cube I'd go Carrion Feeder >>>> Carnophage > Sarcomancy.
Also I'd go with Trostani Discordant (mv=3 is pretty stacked all around, especially in GW) and Doom Whisperer (both have no immediate value, so it's more of a preference thing).
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The life loss from Sarcomancy isn't irrelevant either and I find adding a card like Sarcomancy/ Carrion Feeder might mislead your drafters.
- Trostani Discordant just feels really bad
- Doom Whisper has performed fairly well for me - the Surveil has been decent actually. He's just been rotated out of my cube for me to give Ob Nixilis another shot.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
2- Elspeth Conquers Death vs Cast Out ?
Gilded Goose >> Rift Sower >= Paradise Druid
ECD > Cast Out
[180 classic cube]
Agreed.
I'm debating between The Great Henge, Path of Discovery and Renata, Called to the Hunt
I'm expecting these cards to be primarily played in the Melira/ Persist deck - but bonus points if it can make it into other archetypes.
I'm leaning towards Path of Discovery for its ability to help explore into your combo and its harder to remove than the other combo pieces, but I've heard good things about The Great Henge - it is slightly on the win-more side, but I found cube games are so back and forth that I've found Maelstorm Wanderer into Oko and Uro wasn't enough.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Having played with the Great Henge and Renata, I'd say that the Henge will be the most universally useful card. Coincidentally, it plays very well with a more aggressively slanted green pattern using Mana Dorks and Midrange creatures - Imagine playing Questing Beast or similar beaters, enabling you to curve directly into the Henge while also giving you some insulation against a race (due to the lifegain) and turning topdecks of otherwise limited usefulness both into bigger threats and more gas. Frankly, that card is amazing.
Renata on the other hand is in purely for being an additional Persist enabler that I'll be happy to swap out as soon as a better one arrives. On the other hand, Renata is a creature, lending itself better to the Patterns of a Persist deck full of creature tutors and payoffs for creatures or sacrifice outlets.
In essence, The Great Henge can be used in Persist and is a generally very good card, whereas Renata is a more specific tool for a creature combo, which is even nicer since she herself is a creature. This last point brings me to why I'd never play Path of Discovery. It's not a creature and also a very unreliable part of the Combo since it can whiff - also, it does exactly nothing on its own, whereas the Henge ramps you and gains you life.
I'll give The Great Henge a second try!
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i