Was more trying to make my point about the weaker green mana dorks, which is off topic anyway.
I think we had a discussion that went into that direction in the Gilded Goose Thread. I've had the same feeling towards Dorks that tap for G and I feel Gilded Goosr to be the superior card. Anyways, off topic.
I'm wondering why Nature's Claim sees almost no play - its 1 CMC and can remove moxen/ talisman (if on the draw) very efficiently.
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I'm wondering why Nature's Claim sees almost no play - its 1 CMC and can remove moxen/ talisman (if on the draw) very efficiently.
I like Foundation Breaker a lot more.
Nature's Claim doesn't see a lot of play for the same reason Disenchant / Naturalize don't see a lot of play: they're a lot more narrow than more versatile removal options / disenchants equipped to creatures. Being strapped to a creature is especially important in green with its creature synergies / utility belt (Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman / Natural Order / Green Sun's Zenith / etc).
I'm wondering why Nature's Claim sees almost no play - its 1 CMC and can remove moxen/ talisman (if on the draw) very efficiently.
I like Foundation Breaker a lot more.
Nature's Claim doesn't see a lot of play for the same reason Disenchant / Naturalize don't see a lot of play: they're a lot more narrow than more versatile removal options / disenchants equipped to creatures. Being strapped to a creature is especially important in green with its creature synergies / utility belt (Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman / Natural Order / Green Sun's Zenith / etc).
I'm not huge on Disenchant for Powered Cube - I'm likely going to cut Disenchant for Nature's Claim. There are still a lot of cube curators that play Disenchant so I'm reluctant to make the cut as of right now.
The funny part is I been shaving cards from the GSZ, Survival, Fauna archetype - I found this is an archetype that really doesn't lack playables and can often draft 27-28 playables while combo decks have been struggling to find playables.
I'm thinking if there is something I can do about this, without overextending into blue cantrips. One theory was adding a few more black discard like Blackmail or Agonizing Remorse as cards that work great vs combo and in combo (protect the combo/ something to do turn 1)
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
If you support blink in any capacity Clocknapper can be the highest ceiling blue finisher. We ran a silver border package for a while and it was utterly absurd, was a top 10 blue card in my opinion. Even without blink support it's still good though no where near as absurd. Stealing your opponents untap, upkeep, and draw is very good.
if ur only going to run 1 o-ring style effect in ur 720, Faith's Fetter's is prolly a fine choice Wilson
Thanks for the feedback!
Fetters is one of those cards that doesn’t particularly excite me in 2021, but it’s almost always making my white control deck. You need a density of cards that help you beat red aggro while also not being terrible in other matchups. It’s also less of a blowout than O-Ring when they destroy it which is one of the reasons I cut O-Ring. My list may be particularly punishing for O-Ring because part of green’s identity that has worked well recently has been “destroy all the artifacts and enchantments,” and people started boarding out the already mediocre O-Rings against green opponents.
Clocknapper is very powerful and definitely deserves mention among the best cards in cube. Being 5-mana keeps it somewhat in check. If aggro decks can goldfish turn 4 or green decks are casting Natural Order on turn 3, then Clocknapper isn't too out of place. It's a very powerful card, though, mainly because it interacts with so many commonly played cube cards - a single trigger from Clocknapper is strong, multiple triggers are back-breaking.
Cutting the multicolor section in my 450 down from 5 to 4 cards per section in order to add 5 slots for artifacts and an additional slot for each color. Want some opinions on a few of these guilds.
Azorious
I'm cutting Soulherder for certain (Love the card - but just doesn't compete on power). Need help on Dream Trawler v. Supreme Verdict though. Dream Trawler is the bigger outlier I think, but I love the idea of Azorious having a classic control finisher. I'm not sure that I need another wrath, but including one could allow me to cut one of the weaker wrath variants (Doomskar) from my white section.
Golgari Abrupt Decay vs. Life//Death
I know Life//Death is the bigger outlier but reanimate even for one more is still very good. Decay is of course also a great card, but pretty redundant with other catch all multicolor removal (Pulse, Trophy).
Boros Boros Charm v. Lightning Helix v. Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
I used to run Isochron Scepter which I thought was pretty good w/ Boros Charm, but I have since cut the Scepter and I think that Boros Charm is probably worse than Lightning Helix so probably would leans towards cutting the charm. Could also cut Aurelia, but I think she's a strong draw to play a Boros deck and a nice top-end threat for a lot of R/W decks.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Snow lands provided, but some players might play a mix for Tainted Pact/ Field of the Dead.
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With Snow Lands provided I'd definetly go for Dead of Winter. CMC 3 is really good, allowing you to cast it in a pinch earlier - if you have to do that, most creatures don't have 4+ toughness anyways. Also it's splashable.
Since you mentioned it, how have Tainted Pact and Field of the Dead worked for you? I'm very interested in both cards but they always felt a little too hard to make work.
My short answer is Tainted Pact and Field of the Dead are a decent utility land/ black impulse at worst and a combo piece - Inverter Combo for Tainted Pact and Lands Combo for Field of the Dead at worst.
Both playable IMO without their respective combo support.
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1. I'm not too excited about any of them - I think Manaform might be the most interesting of the group as it can potentially deal up to 6-8 damage on the following turn with a burn spell.
2. Sorin probably.
3. Duress is the best of the bunch, but it really depends on how unfair your environment is.
4. I would opt for Plaguecrafter - I find FTK style creatures/ planeswalkers are the often the bottleneck for aristocrats.
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In a vacuum, I would likely play Spell Queller, but I feel Reflector mage occupies an important meta game role as a blink/ tempo enabler.
- I feel Geist's days are nearing an end with all the rabblemaster variants.
- I could see myself playing Detention sphere, but the new 3 CMC white Oblivion Ring kinda pushed it out
- Ojutai feels like a cool card, but I wanted to up my Dimir and I opted for The Scarab Gob, which fills a kinda similar role as Ojutai.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Our group likes Rekindling Phoenix a lot. It’s good in a variety of red controlling strategies. It’s my favorite in that red group, and I’m not a fan of the others.
I like Sorin more than Spider Queen but won’t be playing either.
Duress > Dread Fugue > Despise, only playing Duress in my 720.
Plaguecrafter > Callous Bloodmage > Fell Stinger, only playing Plaguecrafter in my 720.
1. I like Hellkite and Phoenix. Don't care for the others.
2. Sorin
3. Duress > Dread Fugue > Despise
4. Plaguecrafter
Azorious Cards
Geist of St. Traft has definitely fallen from favor from the cubes I've observed. I can see your 720 cube runs 7 guild cards deep so I'd probably rank what you've listed, what you've got, and a couple other considerations accordingly.
1. Fractured Identity
2. Teferi, Time Raveler
3. Supreme Verdict
4. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
5. Dream Trawler - Think this is better than Dragonlord Ojutai.
6. Yorion, Sky Nomad
7. Reflector/Queller - These two are dead even for me.
1. I like Hellkite and Phoenix. Don't care for the others.
2. Sorin
3. Duress > Dread Fugue > Despise
4. Plaguecrafter
Azorious Cards
Geist of St. Traft has definitely fallen from favor from the cubes I've observed. I can see your 720 cube runs 7 guild cards deep so I'd probably rank what you've listed, what you've got, and a couple other considerations accordingly.
1. Fractured Identity
2. Teferi, Time Raveler
3. Supreme Verdict
4. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
5. Dream Trawler - Think this is better than Dragonlord Ojutai.
6. Yorion, Sky Nomad
7. Reflector/Queller - These two are dead even for me.
I can agree with that.
The problem is cannot really cut anything from my other guilds - I'm really reluctant to go down to a strict 6 cards per guild. (I may get around to cutting it one day).
I'm not too excited about Reflector Mage right now, but I figured my Azorious sections needs to be a bit more balanced.
I haven't tested Dream Trawler, but the artwork for Ojutai is really cool so yah.
Anyone want to comment on Grapeshot vs Empty the Warrens?
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I am supporting storm and I think that grapeshot is pretty unplayable outside the Underworld Breach. It's never been main decked into a non storm spellslinger deck that I can remember. I'm of the same opinion of Empty though. I think I'd go Empty first because of the chump blocking to buy time mode but would prefer to run cards like Smoldering Egg or other things that trigger off your repeated spells. Monastery Mentor, the Stx Witch, and things like that can't win on the turn but aren't as bad in any situation other than the Underworld Breaching for the win turn.
I think we had a discussion that went into that direction in the Gilded Goose Thread. I've had the same feeling towards Dorks that tap for G and I feel Gilded Goosr to be the superior card. Anyways, off topic.
I'm wondering why Nature's Claim sees almost no play - its 1 CMC and can remove moxen/ talisman (if on the draw) very efficiently.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I like Foundation Breaker a lot more.
Nature's Claim doesn't see a lot of play for the same reason Disenchant / Naturalize don't see a lot of play: they're a lot more narrow than more versatile removal options / disenchants equipped to creatures. Being strapped to a creature is especially important in green with its creature synergies / utility belt (Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman / Natural Order / Green Sun's Zenith / etc).
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
I'm not huge on Disenchant for Powered Cube - I'm likely going to cut Disenchant for Nature's Claim. There are still a lot of cube curators that play Disenchant so I'm reluctant to make the cut as of right now.
The funny part is I been shaving cards from the GSZ, Survival, Fauna archetype - I found this is an archetype that really doesn't lack playables and can often draft 27-28 playables while combo decks have been struggling to find playables.
I'm thinking if there is something I can do about this, without overextending into blue cantrips. One theory was adding a few more black discard like Blackmail or Agonizing Remorse as cards that work great vs combo and in combo (protect the combo/ something to do turn 1)
If I can ask a second question:
Blackmail vs Divest vs Agonizing Remorse vs Despise vs Unmask
or better off, of the secondary discard effects outside of IOK, Thoughtseize, Duress, Hymn, Brutality, Grief - Which two would you pick?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Agonizing Remorse and Divest are the two I'd play next. Remorse over Divest in unpowered and vice-versa if in powered.
First, how highly would you rank Clocknapper power-wise among all possible blue cube cards?
Then, in a no fast mana, no combo Sealed Cube.
Earthshaker Giant
vs
Great Oak Guardian
Without Kiki combo I don't like Guardian at all.
Common sentiment seems to be O-Ring, but Fetters’ upside against red can be game-winning, and hitting lands is nice.
Thanks for the feedback!
Fetters is one of those cards that doesn’t particularly excite me in 2021, but it’s almost always making my white control deck. You need a density of cards that help you beat red aggro while also not being terrible in other matchups. It’s also less of a blowout than O-Ring when they destroy it which is one of the reasons I cut O-Ring. My list may be particularly punishing for O-Ring because part of green’s identity that has worked well recently has been “destroy all the artifacts and enchantments,” and people started boarding out the already mediocre O-Rings against green opponents.
Tier 1 (unordered)
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Tier 2 (unordered)
Clocknapper
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Opposition
Upheaval
Tier 3 (unordered)
Counterspell
Consecrated Sphinx
Treachery
Clocknapper is very powerful and definitely deserves mention among the best cards in cube. Being 5-mana keeps it somewhat in check. If aggro decks can goldfish turn 4 or green decks are casting Natural Order on turn 3, then Clocknapper isn't too out of place. It's a very powerful card, though, mainly because it interacts with so many commonly played cube cards - a single trigger from Clocknapper is strong, multiple triggers are back-breaking.
[180 classic cube]
Cube for Reference: https://www.cubecobra.com/cube/list/1028
Azorious
I'm cutting Soulherder for certain (Love the card - but just doesn't compete on power). Need help on Dream Trawler v. Supreme Verdict though. Dream Trawler is the bigger outlier I think, but I love the idea of Azorious having a classic control finisher. I'm not sure that I need another wrath, but including one could allow me to cut one of the weaker wrath variants (Doomskar) from my white section.
Dimir
Fallen Shinobi v. Ashiok, Nightmare Muse
One is a fun though often unpredictable effect the other a fair and flexible PW.
Izzet
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer or Fire//Ice
Mediocre spell or mediocre PW?
Golgari
Abrupt Decay vs. Life//Death
I know Life//Death is the bigger outlier but reanimate even for one more is still very good. Decay is of course also a great card, but pretty redundant with other catch all multicolor removal (Pulse, Trophy).
Boros
Boros Charm v. Lightning Helix v. Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
I used to run Isochron Scepter which I thought was pretty good w/ Boros Charm, but I have since cut the Scepter and I think that Boros Charm is probably worse than Lightning Helix so probably would leans towards cutting the charm. Could also cut Aurelia, but I think she's a strong draw to play a Boros deck and a nice top-end threat for a lot of R/W decks.
Simic
Nissa, Steward of Elements v. Edric, Spymaster of Trest
I love both of these but I think Uro, Oko, and Krasis are better than these so one must go.
I never liked Ashiok, so I'd go with Shinobi.
Keep Saheeli. I want to bring her back in my 465.
Keep Decay
Probably keep Helix, but Charm is close.
Keep Edric. UG ramp doesn't really need Nissa since Krasis exists now. If UG in your cube is almost always in big ramp decks, maybe keep Nissa.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Which of the following would you play (and in what order) in a 720 cube with a lot of creature combos:
- Shared Summons
- Eldritch Evolution
- Eladamri's Call
- Chord of Calling
- Traverse the Ulvenwald
- Collected Company
- Grapple with the past
I'm thinking Eladarmi Call > Collected Company > Grapple with the Past. The rest are too narrow/ inefficient.
Does anyone want to sell me on Edric / Boros Charm?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Dead of Winter or Languish
Snow lands provided, but some players might play a mix for Tainted Pact/ Field of the Dead.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Since you mentioned it, how have Tainted Pact and Field of the Dead worked for you? I'm very interested in both cards but they always felt a little too hard to make work.
Both playable IMO without their respective combo support.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
2- Lolth, Spider Queen vs Sorin the Mirthless? I think that Lolth is underperforme sometimes
3- Despise vs Dread Fugue vs Duress ? Wahts order ?
4 - Fell Stinger vs Callous Bloodmage vs Plaguecrafter ? What order ?
2. Sorin probably.
3. Duress is the best of the bunch, but it really depends on how unfair your environment is.
4. I would opt for Plaguecrafter - I find FTK style creatures/ planeswalkers are the often the bottleneck for aristocrats.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
- Reflector Mage
- Spell Queller
- Dragonlord Ojutai
- Detention Sphere
- Geist of Saint Traft
In a vacuum, I would likely play Spell Queller, but I feel Reflector mage occupies an important meta game role as a blink/ tempo enabler.
- I feel Geist's days are nearing an end with all the rabblemaster variants.
- I could see myself playing Detention sphere, but the new 3 CMC white Oblivion Ring kinda pushed it out
- Ojutai feels like a cool card, but I wanted to up my Dimir and I opted for The Scarab Gob, which fills a kinda similar role as Ojutai.
Anyone want to sell me on any of these 5 cards?
The second one:
Grapeshot or Empty the Warrens
- I'm wondering if Grapeshot is the stronger one of the two given Underworld Breach.
- Has anyone played either of the two outside of a dedicate storm shell - i.e. Spells Matter?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Our group likes Rekindling Phoenix a lot. It’s good in a variety of red controlling strategies. It’s my favorite in that red group, and I’m not a fan of the others.
I like Sorin more than Spider Queen but won’t be playing either.
Duress > Dread Fugue > Despise, only playing Duress in my 720.
Plaguecrafter > Callous Bloodmage > Fell Stinger, only playing Plaguecrafter in my 720.
2. Sorin
3. Duress > Dread Fugue > Despise
4. Plaguecrafter
Azorious Cards
Geist of St. Traft has definitely fallen from favor from the cubes I've observed. I can see your 720 cube runs 7 guild cards deep so I'd probably rank what you've listed, what you've got, and a couple other considerations accordingly.
1. Fractured Identity
2. Teferi, Time Raveler
3. Supreme Verdict
4. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
5. Dream Trawler - Think this is better than Dragonlord Ojutai.
6. Yorion, Sky Nomad
7. Reflector/Queller - These two are dead even for me.
I can agree with that.
The problem is cannot really cut anything from my other guilds - I'm really reluctant to go down to a strict 6 cards per guild. (I may get around to cutting it one day).
I'm not too excited about Reflector Mage right now, but I figured my Azorious sections needs to be a bit more balanced.
I haven't tested Dream Trawler, but the artwork for Ojutai is really cool so yah.
Anyone want to comment on Grapeshot vs Empty the Warrens?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i