I feel the painlands are generally better than the checklands, since they'll always enter untapped, and can tap for colorless once your other mana sources can provide fixing later on to save on life loss. I do agree that the horizon lands are better overall, especially for aggro decks, so I'd rate them as Horizon > Pain > Check, and agree that the first two may swap for slower guilds.
I could see Checklands performing better in a smaller cube if the other lands are fetch, shock, dual.
But I agree with Morphling and Cythare that aggressive decks would prefer Horizon lands and slower guilds may want checklands - but in all seriousness, I've found that Temples, Pain, manland, Cycle lands, Checklands, Zendikar Flip lands, Canopy Lands, Fastlands, Filter lands (for some guilds) are all pretty good.
The distance between the worst and best minus Fetch, Shock, Dual isn't that great - I would just play the first X you can get your hands on.
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I feel the painlands are generally better than the checklands, since they'll always enter untapped, and can tap for colorless once your other mana sources can provide fixing later on to save on life loss. I do agree that the horizon lands are better overall, especially for aggro decks, so I'd rate them as Horizon > Pain > Check, and agree that the first two may swap for slower guilds.
I could see Checklands performing better in a smaller cube if the other lands are fetch, shock, dual.
But I agree with Morphling and Cythare that aggressive decks would prefer Horizon lands and slower guilds may want checklands - but in all seriousness, I've found that Temples, Pain, manland, Cycle lands, Checklands, Zendikar Flip lands, Canopy Lands, Fastlands, Filter lands (for some guilds) are all pretty good.
The distance between the worst and best minus Fetch, Shock, Dual isn't that great - I would just play the first X you can get your hands on.
I really like the Pathway lands if you aren't already playing those.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll go with the painlands for now since I already own them, but I can definitly see myself switch to horizon lands if I can get my hand on those.
I always felt that it's important for my red decks to have some tools to effectively fight all the white and green incidental lifegain stuff, so I personally wouldn't cut the Ferocidon in particular. That Flameskull does look like a blast though. Still, I would look to cut a different card.
No opinion on the other cards since I don't run them in my cube.
I want to add either Checklands or Painlands since I already own both cycles. Which cycle would you rather add?
Painlands, and by a lot.
Inclined to agree there. They also help enable some powerful Eldrazicolorlesspayoffs, if you're into that, but I'd run them over the checklands regardless.
Probably Bone Shards even without reanimate support ( ) or aristocrats.
I guess Dancing Sword seems OK, kinda?
I prefer Kefnet, then Iymrith, but maybe you need a 4/5 drop in particular. I didn't run Meloku for years, it was getting too slow, but it still has its fans.
Duskwatch Recruiter was a recent cut and I liked it quite a bit, I think I may prefer it to Ranger Class but the latter was only just revealed so nobody tested it yet.
- I'd cut Sinew and Steel because that is literally the most feast and famine sword (no pun intended). I don't like how its effects are 100% reliant on your opponent's board state.
- Second pick would either be either Light and Shadow or Feast and Famine, whichever you like the least. People generally prefer Feast and Famine, but I personally like Light and Shadow more since creature recursion is important to keep the sword train going on.
- I think Sword of Body and Mind is easily the second best sword after Fire and Ice. It's very hard for your opponent after they get hit once because if they couldn't stop the first attack, the second attack is going to be even more difficult to block. And you're just dead if you get hit twice.
Out of the four, I think I like Steel and Sinew the most. Removal is always good, especially when you don't waste swings on opposing PWs. Body and Mind is also very good obviously. I like Feast and Famine the least for sure. The discard is nice but most decks running the Sword and connecting with it weren't positioned to take a lot of advantage from the untap.
Actually I went down to two swords myself recently (S&S and F&I, which I think is the best one by a fair bit), I assumed everyone else was still running 4 or 5 but there is usually a glut of 3 drops in the decks running swords and they can clog up the board a bit. I feel a bit equipment light now and might end up cutting Stoneforge Mystic.
Ferocidon, it is more splashable and more aggressive.
Nightmare Shepherd heavily disappointed us, I'd comfortaby say it is the worst of the three. Braids is fun, but slow, fragile and inconsistent, so I'd test Dracolich over it. It might be worse in the long run though.
Shardless Agent. It is the narrower card of the two, as it doesn't work with counterspells, but it is a solid two for one in the right decks. Growth Spiral is not meaningfully better than the mono green options for me to cube it.
Maul >= Blade >> Sword. Not coming with a creature attached is a big drawback. Maul has a high initial impact, and while inefficient, does provide reach to the white deck. Blade is just some very convenient value that slots easily into decks. Reads bad but plays quite well.
Bone Shards (but I don't run either)
Maul > Dancing Sword > Ancestral Blade - Maul is just narrowly outside of my 450 unpowered list, at 540 I would run it
Meloku > Kefnet > Iymrith (I run Meloku and Kefnet)
Ranger Class > Dustwatch (I don't/would not run either)
Bone Shards (but I don't run either)
Maul > Dancing Sword > Ancestral Blade - Maul is just narrowly outside of my 450 unpowered list, at 540 I would run it
Meloku > Kefnet > Iymrith (I run Meloku and Kefnet)
Ranger Class > Dustwatch (I don't/would not run either)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
But I agree with Morphling and Cythare that aggressive decks would prefer Horizon lands and slower guilds may want checklands - but in all seriousness, I've found that Temples, Pain, manland, Cycle lands, Checklands, Zendikar Flip lands, Canopy Lands, Fastlands, Filter lands (for some guilds) are all pretty good.
The distance between the worst and best minus Fetch, Shock, Dual isn't that great - I would just play the first X you can get your hands on.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
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2 - Sarkhan the Masterless vs Zariel, Archduke of Avernus ?
3 - Nightmare Shepherd vs Ebondeath, Dracolich vs Braids, Cabal Minion ? What order ?
Thanks for the feedback! I'll go with the painlands for now since I already own them, but I can definitly see myself switch to horizon lands if I can get my hand on those.
I always felt that it's important for my red decks to have some tools to effectively fight all the white and green incidental lifegain stuff, so I personally wouldn't cut the Ferocidon in particular. That Flameskull does look like a blast though. Still, I would look to cut a different card.
No opinion on the other cards since I don't run them in my cube.
Hoping for some ranking opinions, thanks!
Growth Spiral vs. Shardless Agent?
Klothys, God of Destiny vs. Voltaic Brawler vs. Domri, Anarch of Bolas?
Liliana, Heretical Healer vs. Woe Strider vs. Gonti, Lord of Luxury?
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
Flameskull > Rampaging Ferocidon
Zariel > Sarkhan, but neither are that great
Growth Spiral > Shardless Agent
Domri, AoB > Klothys > Brawler
Woe Strider >> Liliana, HH >> Gonti
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Painlands, and by a lot.
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Inclined to agree there. They also help enable some powerful Eldrazi colorless payoffs, if you're into that, but I'd run them over the checklands regardless.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
1 - Flay Essence vs Bone Shards? (assuming I don't run deep reaniame any aristocrats package)
2 - Dancing Sword vs Ancestral Blade vs Maul of the Skyclaves ? What order ?
3 - Meloku the Clouded Mirror vs God-Eternal Kefnet vs Iymrith, Desert Doom ? What order ?
4 - Ranger Class vs Duskwatch Recruiter ?
I guess Dancing Sword seems OK, kinda?
I prefer Kefnet, then Iymrith, but maybe you need a 4/5 drop in particular. I didn't run Meloku for years, it was getting too slow, but it still has its fans.
Duskwatch Recruiter was a recent cut and I liked it quite a bit, I think I may prefer it to Ranger Class but the latter was only just revealed so nobody tested it yet.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Also, I assume no one thinks Sword of Hearth and Home should get added, correct?
Cheers,
rant
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- I'd cut Sinew and Steel because that is literally the most feast and famine sword (no pun intended). I don't like how its effects are 100% reliant on your opponent's board state.
- Second pick would either be either Light and Shadow or Feast and Famine, whichever you like the least. People generally prefer Feast and Famine, but I personally like Light and Shadow more since creature recursion is important to keep the sword train going on.
- I think Sword of Body and Mind is easily the second best sword after Fire and Ice. It's very hard for your opponent after they get hit once because if they couldn't stop the first attack, the second attack is going to be even more difficult to block. And you're just dead if you get hit twice.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Actually I went down to two swords myself recently (S&S and F&I, which I think is the best one by a fair bit), I assumed everyone else was still running 4 or 5 but there is usually a glut of 3 drops in the decks running swords and they can clog up the board a bit. I feel a bit equipment light now and might end up cutting Stoneforge Mystic.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Ferocidon, it is more splashable and more aggressive.
Nightmare Shepherd heavily disappointed us, I'd comfortaby say it is the worst of the three. Braids is fun, but slow, fragile and inconsistent, so I'd test Dracolich over it. It might be worse in the long run though.
Shardless Agent. It is the narrower card of the two, as it doesn't work with counterspells, but it is a solid two for one in the right decks. Growth Spiral is not meaningfully better than the mono green options for me to cube it.
Maul >= Blade >> Sword. Not coming with a creature attached is a big drawback. Maul has a high initial impact, and while inefficient, does provide reach to the white deck. Blade is just some very convenient value that slots easily into decks. Reads bad but plays quite well.
Cut Feast and Famine
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Bone Shards (but I don't run either)
Maul > Dancing Sword > Ancestral Blade - Maul is just narrowly outside of my 450 unpowered list, at 540 I would run it
Meloku > Kefnet > Iymrith (I run Meloku and Kefnet)
Ranger Class > Dustwatch (I don't/would not run either)
I think this sounds exactly right to me.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
Unless you got a heavy lands package, I like Voice of Resurgence more. It plays well with the hate bears theme I have going on in GW.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
[180 classic cube]
Heartless Act
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Heartless Act
Timeless Witness vs Bala Ged Recovery
Seat of the Synod vs Academy Ruins
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Seat vs Ruins really depends on the make up of your cube. If Seat is good it's probably better, but it's hard for it to be good.
Teleportation Circle vs Gideon, Ally of Zendikar