Despite being a punisher card, Oona's Prowler has been absolutely insane for me. 2 mana 3/1 flyer is incredibly strong in a black aggressive/ reanimator style archetype. I would argue its slightly stronger in table top than MTGO since you're less likely to face the mirror, where your opponent could also benefit from Prowler.
I haven't test Cabal myself, but 2 mana 2/1 without evasion really doesn't cut it for me. I've found threshold to be fairly challenging to turn on and a 2 mana 3/3 really doesn't cut it these days.
I've been testing Bone Shards as a discard outlet recently - I think its worth a consideration, especially given how its 1 CMC.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I have Trinket Mage and Impulse in my 360 powered that supports storm. Spellseeker has been in and out. Agree with wtwlf with one tiny quibble I have Scroll a hair above Solve. It goes in fewer decks but it's better enough in them that I'd have it in if my goal is to try and support storm. Solve is better if I was more interested in promoting combo/reanimator more broadly.
- Tooth and Nail never worked out for me no matter how much I support it, so that gets my vote.
- I like Paradise Druid the least out of the green cards. Hexdrinker is one of green's best creatures, I would never consider cutting that unless you dislike protection.
I wrote up a guide on my calculations for the minimum number of support pieces for an archetype - and Flicker came at around 10.5 enablers for 720. If you can cut flicker, probably Yorion as the CMC for flicker decks are traditionally high, with some very nice targets at 5 CMC.
I would cut Dream Trawler - Reflector mage provides a lot of strong counter play.
Unholy Heat - I don't think Delirium is very easy to hit.
But I also don't think this is a bad card per say - 2 damage to creature or planeswalker at instant speed for 1 red is pretty much what a more reactive deck is looking for. The Delirium clause scales nicely for the late game as it essentially becomes a 1 mana Hero's Downfall a lot of the time. I'll watching Unholy heat more closely, but I don't think its going to cut it.
1. Opt - Blue slots are too competitive. I find these do nothing cards that don't really have any significant contributes to an archetype should not be played.
Its unlikely for people (at least in my group) to draft blue decks without splashing at least two colors - blue cards are too competitive. I've found these decks struggle with consistent mana in the early turns (ETB tapped lands, prefer to play shock lands tapped to avoid taking damage etc.)
2. The format is a little too fast for Tooth and Nail right now.
3. Paradise Druid - It is night and day between 1 CMC and 2 CMC mana dorks - hence why people are willing to play Gilded Goose.
4. I would have to say Anguished Unmaking ... one of my favorite cards + card arts.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
1 - Tireless Provisioner > Dryad of Ilysian Grove > Yavimaya Elder
2 - This one is hard because it depends on what you want the slot to do. Nimble Obstructionist can be good if you’re heavily pushing tempo decks. We’ve run all of these cards at various times except Svyelun, and currently blue 3s (which includes 3s in multi that are part blue) are too crowded to justify any of the cards on the list. We did briefly consider trying Kira again after having success with it on Magic Online.
3 - Nadaar, Selfless Paladin > Hallowed Spiritkeeper (no testing, just gut feeling)
I think Master. Hostage Taker was too slow and fragile. In the late game, you can immediately cast what you steal, but in your experience, it seldom happened. You almost always cast it turn three or four to stop the beatdown, and it would usually get promptly removed. Even rarer were the times you actually stole something that is also beneficial to you and had the time to cast it to gain card advantage.
1. Opt - Blue slots are too competitive. I find these do nothing cards that don't really have any significant contributes to an archetype should not be played.
Its unlikely for people (at least in my group) to draft blue decks without splashing at least two colors - blue cards are too competitive. I've found these decks struggle with consistent mana in the early turns (ETB tapped lands, prefer to play shock lands tapped to avoid taking damage etc.)
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly, but aren't Opt and others the perfect cards to help decks struggling with consistent mana? Using your mana in the early turns to set up future draws is exactly what you want to be doing. Also, they have late game value where you can send unwanted lands to the bottom and keep gas.
I'm more concerned that their playgroup is leaving shocklands tapped to avoid taking damage at the cost of mana consistency and being able to play cards.
1. Opt - Blue slots are too competitive. I find these do nothing cards that don't really have any significant contributes to an archetype should not be played.
Its unlikely for people (at least in my group) to draft blue decks without splashing at least two colors - blue cards are too competitive. I've found these decks struggle with consistent mana in the early turns (ETB tapped lands, prefer to play shock lands tapped to avoid taking damage etc.)
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly, but aren't Opt and others the perfect cards to help decks struggling with consistent mana? Using your mana in the early turns to set up future draws is exactly what you want to be doing. Also, they have late game value where you can send unwanted lands to the bottom and keep gas.
I skipped a few points, but here is a more in depth response:
In constructed, decks need 14 sources of mana on turn 1 in order to cast turn 1 thoughtseize or serum visions. If its turn 2, you need 12 sources for 90% consistency
If its 40 card cube, its closer to 8-9 for turn 1 and 7-8 for turn 2 (depending on 80-90% consistency).
Just for some context, suppose I'm playing a 2 color deck with 18 lands,
- If it is 2 colors, I could easily have 9 Islands and 9 Mountains and have very good mana consistency.
- If it is 3 colors, I could easily have 5 of each and have 3 dual lands of each color combination. This would give me a strong turn 2 consistency, but if I would want the same consistency for turn 1, I would need roughly 4 of each land + 6 dual lands.
With this in mind:
1. Blue decks in cube are often a splash color - the color is just too powerful for drafters to pass. I've seen this many times - Black-Red aristocrats that picked up 2 fetches early splashes for an Ancestral Visions picked up on Pack 3 Pick 1 etc.
2. Blue decks run a few more ETB tapped lands such as Temples, Evolving Wilds, Shock lands, Cycle lands etc. than aggressive decks and struggle even more with color sources on turn 1. (They're also can rely on talisman/ Signets to help hit their color requirements for 4-5 drops). I've had cases where I had serum visions in hand, but I played a shock land tapped on turn 1 because I felt the 2 life was more important than setting up my draw.
3. Blue decks don't have as many 1 drops and not playing a 1 drop doesn't make or break the deck - think about the night and day difference between a turn 1 Birds/ Goblin Guide out of a green/ red deck.
In summary, blue often lack the turn 1 consistency to cast spells like Opt/ Serum Visions.
My second point is, I'm not arguing cards like Opt are bad in the late game for scrying lands to the bottom and its bad for combo, spells matters, control decks etc; Its a fine card and I would love to have more effects like this for my storm deck, but blue slots right now are too competitive right now for cards with this much downside.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I’ll provide an alternative perspective since I voted to keep Opt over Memory Lapse. Our group was low on Opt when we added it, but its value has increased dramatically for us since playing it.
We view Opt as a linchpin “archetype glue” card rather than a base blue consistency increaser. It’s great in any deck with spells matters and delve packages. These decks generally don’t lack payoffs in Cube, but the make or break is the proper density of efficient spells. We might run more of the payoff cards than the average list (we have things like sky whale, Dreadhorde Arcanist, and Talrand), but I recommend the card if you are also pushing these types of interactions.
I’ll provide an alternative perspective since I voted to keep Opt over Memory Lapse. Our group was low on Opt when we added it, but its value has increased dramatically for us since playing it.
We view Opt as a linchpin “archetype glue” card rather than a base blue consistency increaser. It’s great in any deck with spells matters and delve packages. These decks generally don’t lack payoffs in Cube, but the make or break is the proper density of efficient spells. We might run more of the payoff cards than the average list (we have things like sky whale, Dreadhorde Arcanist, and Talrand), but I recommend the card if you are also pushing these types of interactions.
That's a completely fair point - Opt is a decent pickup for any blue deck. I see your list contains more of a spells matters theme and obviously Opt would be fantastic there. I just cannot imagine myself cutting the Memory Lapse - My decks need stronger a counter balance for the combo decks.
This is also a playgroup call. For example, I have Vedalken Shackles cut from my list because blue is so over drafted, I just don't see you being able to assemble that many Islands + my cube has a few too many combos/ archetypes for do nothing style cards. (Other cube curators would call this cut being crazy).
I find there are often 26-27 cards in your draft pool and you need to cut 3-4 cards, Opt is frequently a cut. Its a card most decks can live without. When you're looking for space for new archetypes like Talking Turns, cards like opt are first to go.
The final thing is comparing our lists - I play temples, most other Vintage cubes do not. Temples play the role opt does for alot of decks so I'm clearly biased.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I will be upgrading my cube from 360 to 450 soon and I want to add another cycle of dual lands.
Currently, I'm running ABUR Duals, Shocks, Fetches, Manlands and the five Triomes.
I want to add either Checklands or Painlands since I already own both cycles. Which cycle would you rather add?
I will be upgrading my cube from 360 to 450 soon and I want to add another cycle of dual lands.
Currently, I'm running ABUR Duals, Shocks, Fetches, Manlands and the five Triomes.
I want to add either Checklands or Painlands since I already own both cycles. Which cycle would you rather add?
I think checklands are slightly better overall. That being said, I think the fastlands and horizon lands are both also better than the pain lands and the checklands.
If you're willing to mix and match, green and blue may be more inclined towards painlands or checklands, while aggressive colors like white, black and red would generally rather have the horizon lands or the checklands.
Despite being a punisher card, Oona's Prowler has been absolutely insane for me. 2 mana 3/1 flyer is incredibly strong in a black aggressive/ reanimator style archetype. I would argue its slightly stronger in table top than MTGO since you're less likely to face the mirror, where your opponent could also benefit from Prowler.
I haven't test Cabal myself, but 2 mana 2/1 without evasion really doesn't cut it for me. I've found threshold to be fairly challenging to turn on and a 2 mana 3/3 really doesn't cut it these days.
I've been testing Bone Shards as a discard outlet recently - I think its worth a consideration, especially given how its 1 CMC.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
- Merchant Scroll, Solve the Equation, Spellseeker - (High Tide, Frantic Search, Dark Ritual etc.)
- Fabricate, Trinket Mage (Fetch LED, Lotus, Mana Crypt etc.)
- Impulse, Windfall (General Draw spells)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Trinket Mage >> Fabricate
Impulse >> Windfall
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Condescend, Opt, Memory Lapse, Daze, Forbid, Fact or Fiction.
2) Cut one for Abundant Harvest:
Kazandu Mammoth, Bala Ged Recovery, Tooth and Nail, or none of the above.
3) Cut one for Ignoble Hierarch:
Gilded Goose, Hexdrinker, Paradise Druid.
4) Cut one for Damn
Vanishing Verse, Anguished Unmaking
- Memory Lapse.
- Tooth and Nail never worked out for me no matter how much I support it, so that gets my vote.
- I like Paradise Druid the least out of the green cards. Hexdrinker is one of green's best creatures, I would never consider cutting that unless you dislike protection.
- Anguished Unmaking.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
2 - Unholy Heat vs Galvanic Blast ?
I wrote up a guide on my calculations for the minimum number of support pieces for an archetype - and Flicker came at around 10.5 enablers for 720. If you can cut flicker, probably Yorion as the CMC for flicker decks are traditionally high, with some very nice targets at 5 CMC.
I would cut Dream Trawler - Reflector mage provides a lot of strong counter play.
Unholy Heat - I don't think Delirium is very easy to hit.
But I also don't think this is a bad card per say - 2 damage to creature or planeswalker at instant speed for 1 red is pretty much what a more reactive deck is looking for. The Delirium clause scales nicely for the late game as it essentially becomes a 1 mana Hero's Downfall a lot of the time. I'll watching Unholy heat more closely, but I don't think its going to cut it.
1. Opt - Blue slots are too competitive. I find these do nothing cards that don't really have any significant contributes to an archetype should not be played.
Its unlikely for people (at least in my group) to draft blue decks without splashing at least two colors - blue cards are too competitive. I've found these decks struggle with consistent mana in the early turns (ETB tapped lands, prefer to play shock lands tapped to avoid taking damage etc.)
2. The format is a little too fast for Tooth and Nail right now.
3. Paradise Druid - It is night and day between 1 CMC and 2 CMC mana dorks - hence why people are willing to play Gilded Goose.
4. I would have to say Anguished Unmaking ... one of my favorite cards + card arts.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
a) cut Ilharg, the Raze-Boar
or
b) cut Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Zealous Conscripts (which also allows you to cut Great Oak Guardian from green)?
My cube supports Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, and other cheaty strategies. Kiki support is limited to Conscripts, Great Oak, and Restoration Angel.
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Avatar by Hakai Studios
1 - Yavimaya Elder vs Dryad of the Ilysian Grove vs Tireless Provisioner? What order ?
2 - Svyelun of Sea and Sky vs Nimble Obstructionist vs Kira, Great Glass-Spinner vs Mist-Syndicate Naga ? What order ?
3 - Hallowed Spiritkeeper vs Nadaar, Selfless Paladin (expeculation) ?
I wouldn't play any of the blue cards but if I had to pick I guess Nimble Obstructionst is the best.
Nadaar because it's easier to cast.
2 - This one is hard because it depends on what you want the slot to do. Nimble Obstructionist can be good if you’re heavily pushing tempo decks. We’ve run all of these cards at various times except Svyelun, and currently blue 3s (which includes 3s in multi that are part blue) are too crowded to justify any of the cards on the list. We did briefly consider trying Kira again after having success with it on Magic Online.
3 - Nadaar, Selfless Paladin > Hallowed Spiritkeeper (no testing, just gut feeling)
—————
Master of Death vs Hostage Taker?
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Maybe I am not understanding this correctly, but aren't Opt and others the perfect cards to help decks struggling with consistent mana? Using your mana in the early turns to set up future draws is exactly what you want to be doing. Also, they have late game value where you can send unwanted lands to the bottom and keep gas.
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Avatar by Hakai Studios
I skipped a few points, but here is a more in depth response:
In constructed, decks need 14 sources of mana on turn 1 in order to cast turn 1 thoughtseize or serum visions. If its turn 2, you need 12 sources for 90% consistency
If its 40 card cube, its closer to 8-9 for turn 1 and 7-8 for turn 2 (depending on 80-90% consistency).
Just for some context, suppose I'm playing a 2 color deck with 18 lands,
- If it is 2 colors, I could easily have 9 Islands and 9 Mountains and have very good mana consistency.
- If it is 3 colors, I could easily have 5 of each and have 3 dual lands of each color combination. This would give me a strong turn 2 consistency, but if I would want the same consistency for turn 1, I would need roughly 4 of each land + 6 dual lands.
With this in mind:
1. Blue decks in cube are often a splash color - the color is just too powerful for drafters to pass. I've seen this many times - Black-Red aristocrats that picked up 2 fetches early splashes for an Ancestral Visions picked up on Pack 3 Pick 1 etc.
2. Blue decks run a few more ETB tapped lands such as Temples, Evolving Wilds, Shock lands, Cycle lands etc. than aggressive decks and struggle even more with color sources on turn 1. (They're also can rely on talisman/ Signets to help hit their color requirements for 4-5 drops). I've had cases where I had serum visions in hand, but I played a shock land tapped on turn 1 because I felt the 2 life was more important than setting up my draw.
3. Blue decks don't have as many 1 drops and not playing a 1 drop doesn't make or break the deck - think about the night and day difference between a turn 1 Birds/ Goblin Guide out of a green/ red deck.
In summary, blue often lack the turn 1 consistency to cast spells like Opt/ Serum Visions.
My second point is, I'm not arguing cards like Opt are bad in the late game for scrying lands to the bottom and its bad for combo, spells matters, control decks etc; Its a fine card and I would love to have more effects like this for my storm deck, but blue slots right now are too competitive right now for cards with this much downside.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
We view Opt as a linchpin “archetype glue” card rather than a base blue consistency increaser. It’s great in any deck with spells matters and delve packages. These decks generally don’t lack payoffs in Cube, but the make or break is the proper density of efficient spells. We might run more of the payoff cards than the average list (we have things like sky whale, Dreadhorde Arcanist, and Talrand), but I recommend the card if you are also pushing these types of interactions.
That's a completely fair point - Opt is a decent pickup for any blue deck. I see your list contains more of a spells matters theme and obviously Opt would be fantastic there. I just cannot imagine myself cutting the Memory Lapse - My decks need stronger a counter balance for the combo decks.
This is also a playgroup call. For example, I have Vedalken Shackles cut from my list because blue is so over drafted, I just don't see you being able to assemble that many Islands + my cube has a few too many combos/ archetypes for do nothing style cards. (Other cube curators would call this cut being crazy).
I find there are often 26-27 cards in your draft pool and you need to cut 3-4 cards, Opt is frequently a cut. Its a card most decks can live without. When you're looking for space for new archetypes like Talking Turns, cards like opt are first to go.
The final thing is comparing our lists - I play temples, most other Vintage cubes do not. Temples play the role opt does for alot of decks so I'm clearly biased.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Currently, I'm running ABUR Duals, Shocks, Fetches, Manlands and the five Triomes.
I want to add either Checklands or Painlands since I already own both cycles. Which cycle would you rather add?
I think checklands are slightly better overall. That being said, I think the fastlands and horizon lands are both also better than the pain lands and the checklands.
If you're willing to mix and match, green and blue may be more inclined towards painlands or checklands, while aggressive colors like white, black and red would generally rather have the horizon lands or the checklands.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc