I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and argue that 2 mana green dorks are not playable outside of:
- Devoted Druid
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Lotus Cobra
I think you all the 1 mana dorks should be played first, including:
- Exploration
- Utopia Sprawl
- Wild Growth
Other fast mana I would consider playing over a turn 2 mana dork:
- Azusa, Lost but Seeking
- Earthcraft
- Growing Rites of Itlimoc
- Kodma's Reach
The problem with 2 mana dorks is you're wasting your first 3 mana (turn 1 + turn 2) for a mana investment that you will only get back by turn 5, unlike a turn 1 dork that will get it turn 3 (not including the benefit gained from acceleration.
I would consider the myr cycle over any green 2 drop mana dork.
For this reason, I would give the edge to wall of blossom.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
@Breathe1234 I agree with parts of this assessment, but Wall of Roots exceeds your proposed situation. It produces mana instantly. It produces mana on your opponent’s turn, after producing on yours. It blocks better than any mana dork mentioned. It never taps.
@Breathe1234 I agree with parts of this assessment, but Wall of Roots exceeds your proposed situation. It produces mana instantly. It produces mana on your opponent’s turn, after producing on yours. It blocks better than any mana dork mentioned. It never taps.
Wall of Roots > Wall of Blossoms
I never thought about that actually - you can use it on your opponent's turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
thanks guys! I havent played either of them in my own list and they are both staples for a lot of people. My green section has been hurting and aggro has been running a bit rampant so I thought one or both of these might give green a bit of a buff.
I actually want to come back to the discussion about of Wall of Roots:
I've ran some numbers on the minimum number of artifact ramp needed to support WildFire/ Upheaval/ Balace etc Archetype. I've noticed that our cube lists are consistently underplaying the number of artifact ramp required for a consistency level similar to other archetypes. (See my Calculations on Minimum Archetype Support).
Wall of Roots has good utility in Pod/ Aristocrat decks, but I've noticed these decks are frequently over supported and 2 are easily replacable, while mana rocks are not.
If you are supporting WildFire (which unfortunately OP isn't), I would recommend playing more mana rocks over 2 mana green mana dorks and potentially open those slots for other archetypes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
@Breathe1234 I always feel like I need more mana rocks, thanks for the suggestions. Personally, I could never cut green slots for more colorless slots, though. Unless you mean working a higher # of 2-drop rampers into colorless more and finding other green 2’s, which I also wouldn’t prefer, because Rofellos and Cobra are busted, and Sylvan Caryatid does a lot of things.
-Tezzeret The Seeker vs. Tezzeret, Artifice Master vs. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (regardless of slot use)
I’m assuming Urza, Lord High Artificer is better than all 3 in most peoples’ eyes.
Also:
Questing Beast vs. Nightpack Ambusher
Crawling Barrens vs. erratic portal vs. darksteel colossus
(moreso I’d just like to hear if people have tried/still play the Iron Giant, since Infect is a no-go for my design.)
@Breathe1234 I always feel like I need more mana rocks, thanks for the suggestions. Personally, I could never cut green slots for more colorless slots, though. Unless you mean working a higher # of 2-drop rampers into colorless more and finding other green 2’s, which I also wouldn’t prefer, because Rofellos and Cobra are busted, and Sylvan Caryatid does a lot of things.
-Tezzeret The Seeker vs. Tezzeret, Artifice Master vs. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (regardless of slot use)
I’m assuming Urza, Lord High Artificer is better than all 3 in most peoples’ eyes.
Also:
Questing Beast vs. Nightpack Ambusher
Crawling Barrens vs. erratic portal vs. darksteel colossus
(moreso I’d just like to hear if people have tried/still play the Iron Giant, since Infect is a no-go for my design.)
Urza is better than all the Tezzerets. We only play Artifice Master, as it is the most playable of the three outside of a dedicated artifacts deck.
Right now, I'm deciding to cut either Spectral Procession or Hallowed Spiritkeeper to include some cards from Kaldheim. I am leaning towards cutting Procession. What do you think?
Right now, I'm deciding to cut either Spectral Procession or Hallowed Spiritkeeper to include some cards from Kaldheim. I am leaning towards cutting Procession. What do you think?
I like Spectral Procession a lot more than Spiritkeeper.
Thanks for the quick answers! I'm updating my list at this moment, and I'll cut Spiritkeeper for now then.
Could you elaborate why you think Procession is better? In my experience, the heavy white requirement means that it only makes it to mono-white decks. At the same time, I've been impressed with Spiritkeeper since it gives aggressive decks some protection from wraths. It's been about a year since our last draft, so I might be a little rusty in my evaluation.
Thanks for the quick answers! I'm updating my list at this moment, and I'll cut Spiritkeeper for now then.
Could you elaborate why you think Procession is better? In my experience, the heavy white requirement means that it only makes it to mono-white decks. At the same time, I've been impressed with Spiritkeeper since it gives aggressive decks some protection from wraths. It's been about a year since our last draft, so I might be a little rusty in my evaluation.
The value from Spiritkeeper is from when it dies, and Spectral Procession already gives you that upfront.
Vivien > Freyalise. Removing Flyers is critical. Adding a mana dork at this stage of the game is pretty insignificant.
Radha is decent 3 drop creature in any GR deck. Escape to the wilds requires a bit of a GR lands theme for it to really shine.
God- Eternal Bontu > Cavalier. Triple black is a non-starter. Menace is hell of an ability in cube - its insane for pushing damage.
Orcish Hellraiser > Rimrock Knight. Unfortunately, red 2 drops have gotten so good, these two didn't even warrant a discussion. However, Orcish is stronger in a red aristocrats shell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Krasis > Nissa
[180 classic cube]
Krasis > Nissa
Carver > Scavenger > Engineer
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Krasis >> Nissa
Scavenger > Carver > Engineer
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and argue that 2 mana green dorks are not playable outside of:
- Devoted Druid
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Lotus Cobra
I think you all the 1 mana dorks should be played first, including:
- Exploration
- Utopia Sprawl
- Wild Growth
Other fast mana I would consider playing over a turn 2 mana dork:
- Azusa, Lost but Seeking
- Earthcraft
- Growing Rites of Itlimoc
- Kodma's Reach
The problem with 2 mana dorks is you're wasting your first 3 mana (turn 1 + turn 2) for a mana investment that you will only get back by turn 5, unlike a turn 1 dork that will get it turn 3 (not including the benefit gained from acceleration.
I would consider the myr cycle over any green 2 drop mana dork.
For this reason, I would give the edge to wall of blossom.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I like Wall of Blossoms quite a bit, but Wall of Roots is an outstanding cube card.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Wall of Roots > Wall of Blossoms
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
I never thought about that actually - you can use it on your opponent's turn.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I've ran some numbers on the minimum number of artifact ramp needed to support WildFire/ Upheaval/ Balace etc Archetype. I've noticed that our cube lists are consistently underplaying the number of artifact ramp required for a consistency level similar to other archetypes. (See my Calculations on Minimum Archetype Support).
There are some playable 2 mana rocks
- Star Compass
- Sphere of the Suns
- Fractured Powerstone
- Thought Vessel
- Prismatic Lens
- Charcoal Diamond
- Fire Diamond
- Marble Diamond
- Moss Diamond
- Sky Diamond
Wall of Roots has good utility in Pod/ Aristocrat decks, but I've noticed these decks are frequently over supported and 2 are easily replacable, while mana rocks are not.
If you are supporting WildFire (which unfortunately OP isn't), I would recommend playing more mana rocks over 2 mana green mana dorks and potentially open those slots for other archetypes.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
-Tezzeret The Seeker vs. Tezzeret, Artifice Master vs. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas (regardless of slot use)
I’m assuming Urza, Lord High Artificer is better than all 3 in most peoples’ eyes.
Also:
Questing Beast vs. Nightpack Ambusher
Crawling Barrens vs. erratic portal vs. darksteel colossus
(moreso I’d just like to hear if people have tried/still play the Iron Giant, since Infect is a no-go for my design.)
This is still the best place for high-power-level cube chat & debate.
Here's to many more years at MTGS *clink*
Beast >> Ambusher
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Urza is better than all the Tezzerets. We only play Artifice Master, as it is the most playable of the three outside of a dedicated artifacts deck.
Beast is at least a league above ambusher.
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
2 - Heart of Kiran vs Skysovereign, Consul Flagship ?
3 - Aether Spellbomb vs Callous Dismissal ?
[180 classic cube]
Probably Skysovereign
Dismissal, but I wouldn't cube either one
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Right now, I'm deciding to cut either Spectral Procession or Hallowed Spiritkeeper to include some cards from Kaldheim. I am leaning towards cutting Procession. What do you think?
I like Spectral Procession a lot more than Spiritkeeper.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Could you elaborate why you think Procession is better? In my experience, the heavy white requirement means that it only makes it to mono-white decks. At the same time, I've been impressed with Spiritkeeper since it gives aggressive decks some protection from wraths. It's been about a year since our last draft, so I might be a little rusty in my evaluation.
The value from Spiritkeeper is from when it dies, and Spectral Procession already gives you that upfront.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
2 - Radha, Heart of Keld vs Escape to the Wilds ?
3 - Rimrock Knight vs Orcish Hellraiserr ?
4 - God-Eternal Bontu vs Cavalier of Night ?
My cube: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/5eab433209bbf1105e2dcd86
Vivien > Freyalise. Removing Flyers is critical. Adding a mana dork at this stage of the game is pretty insignificant.
Radha is decent 3 drop creature in any GR deck. Escape to the wilds requires a bit of a GR lands theme for it to really shine.
God- Eternal Bontu > Cavalier. Triple black is a non-starter. Menace is hell of an ability in cube - its insane for pushing damage.
Orcish Hellraiser > Rimrock Knight. Unfortunately, red 2 drops have gotten so good, these two didn't even warrant a discussion. However, Orcish is stronger in a red aristocrats shell.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
1 - Flame Slash vs Mizzium Mortars vs Thundering Rebuke ? What order ?
2 - Inscription of Abundance vs Winding Way ?
3 - Behold the Multiverse vs Gush ? (Assuming I'm running storm.dec)
4 - Bloodbraid Elf vs Huntmaster of the Fells ? (in 720 unpowered cube - because I think Elf in better in small cubes)