I've been contemplating this one myself and I think it is....
Jace Beleren = Mu Yanling > Narset
Beleren can be an incredible draw engine if protected. The more you have to use the +2, the less good he is--symmetrical discard can be leveraged, symmetrical draw, not as much. Ideally you do the +2 once and have an extra draw for the next five turns netting you six cards to your opponent's one. Mu Yanling needs to be protected too, but only for 1 turn. After that she makes an Air Elemental. Being able to control the skies with the token while shrinking and grounding fliers is pretty good. Narset is obviously stupid with Wheel of Fortune type effects, but I run 1 of those and I think most cubes only have a couple at most. Narset needs to get both activations of its -2 ability off to be worth its cost. Being a walker with only a negative loyalty ability and no way to protect itself is problematic. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer has the same cost/loyalty, but is easier to cast/more accessible to different decks and has a static ability that protects it (and is generally more useful than Narset's static ability).
I was trying to create a thread to discuss this, but everytime I would preview my thread, I got taken to some adware website (Fix this please mods). Anyway, I've wanted to run a color based land "cycle" in my cube for eons, but the best red options we had for the longest time were Hanweir Battlements and Kher Keep. Now that we have Castle Embereth which is still admittedly lower power--but not embarassingly so--I want to figure out which options I can include to fill out the "cycle". Ideally the cards included here are strong, and I don't mind paying a little, but not like $50.00+ for a single card.
White Karakas - I actually happen to own a foil EMA copy so price isn't an issue here. I just want some more feedback as to how this has worked out for others and how people feel it compares to the next cards I mention. Like that is has zero drawback in terms of tempo. Kor Haven - Maze of Ith+ since it taps for mana and still allows you to block profitably. Top contender. Kjeldoran Outpost - Sacrificing a land is too high of a cost. Castle Ardenvale - Five mana is too much for a 1/1 token generator.
Blue Tolarian Academy - Probably the strongest but also fairly costly. Not sure my cube has enough artifact support to take advantage of this. Shelldock Isle - CIPT and needing a library to be at half or less are pretty big drawbacks. Card has lots of fans though. Academy Ruins - This card has been a major do-nothing in my cube. Still I'm not sure I have a more attractive option. Faerie Conclave - Not a bad rate for this evasive manland, but monocolor manlands aren't wildly appealing to me. I already run the dual manlands and strongly prefer them. Castle Vantress - Way too expensive just to scry.
Black Volrath's Stronghold - This card has done a lot of work for me. This is almost certainly going to remain in my cube as the black part of this cycle. Castle Lochtwain - Card can do great work in the right deck. I just think the combination of paying four mana and needing to be near madness to avoid a large life payment for 1 card is too much.
Red Castle Embereth - As mentioned at the beginning. the other red options are too embarrassing to even list. Four mana for a until EOT Orcish Oriflamme (notably without the attacking restriction) is not great, but it is medium which I can bless for my cube.
Green Gaea's Cradle - Quite obviously the best option but so insanely expensive (I do not proxy). So until they print a Cradle-lite that doesn't suck like Growing Rites of Itlimoc, I'm stuck with inferior options. Treetop Village - The best of the mono-color man-lands, but as I mentioned previously. I'm not a big fan of these Castle Garenbrig- Five mana for six mana but only for creature or creature abilities? Hard pass.
Any key players that I am missing? What would you run in a list like mine?
Karakas- only gets better with time as more legends enter the cube.
Tolarian- works in powered lists especially, even without dedicated artifact.dec support.
Volrath- endgame champion if your manabase supports a colorless.
Embereth- yeah okay.
Cradle- busted in the right shells.
The creature lands are pretty good too if budget is an issue. The cheap activation cost and evasion makes them special, something most of the dual creature lands are lacking. They can help control planeswalkers and allow turns activating and holding up countermagic or activating plus another creature/spell to develop the board.
- Karakas
- Tolarian Acdemy / Faerie Conclave (Academy skippable if you're really not supporting an artifact theme)
- Volrath's Stronghold
- Castle Embereth
- Gaea's Cradle / Treetop Village (find room for both unless budget is a consideration, IMO)
so i finally got a hold of Daddy Teferi, Trying to decide if I should cut Supreme Verdict or Geist of Saint Traft. I think Supreme Verdict is the better card, but I have been thinking that Geist might be better for the cube at my current size of 411. I am not sure if I really need the wrath with Day of Judgment, Wrath of god at 4 CMC, and Winds of Abandon as a new edition.
Thoughts?
Nissa, Worldwaker by a long shot. Can untap with 4 mana compared to 1 the turn it comes down. Also produces 4/4's with trample, vs. 3/3's with no evasion.
Liliana, Death's Majesty vs. Ob Nixilis Reignited
Koth of the Hammer vs. Chandra, Acolyte of Flame
Sarkhan the Masterless vs. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Merfolk Branchwalker vs. Paradise Druid
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma vs. Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Reflector Mage vs. Teferi, Time Raveler
Judith, the Scourge Diva vs. Falkenrath Aristocrat
Liliana >> Ob Nix.
Koth >> Chandra.
Dragonspeaker > Masterless.
Druid ≥ Branchwalker, but probably neither.
Goreclaw > Surrak, but probably neither.
Teferi > Mage
Your cube probably wants both of those cards or neither of them.
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Liliana
Koth
Dragonspeaker
Druid
Goreclaw
Teferi
I play Liliana because we want another reanimation effect, otherwise Ob
Druid > Branchwalker
Teferi
Judith
The list on cube cobra
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Jace Beleren = Mu Yanling > Narset
Beleren can be an incredible draw engine if protected. The more you have to use the +2, the less good he is--symmetrical discard can be leveraged, symmetrical draw, not as much. Ideally you do the +2 once and have an extra draw for the next five turns netting you six cards to your opponent's one. Mu Yanling needs to be protected too, but only for 1 turn. After that she makes an Air Elemental. Being able to control the skies with the token while shrinking and grounding fliers is pretty good. Narset is obviously stupid with Wheel of Fortune type effects, but I run 1 of those and I think most cubes only have a couple at most. Narset needs to get both activations of its -2 ability off to be worth its cost. Being a walker with only a negative loyalty ability and no way to protect itself is problematic. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer has the same cost/loyalty, but is easier to cast/more accessible to different decks and has a static ability that protects it (and is generally more useful than Narset's static ability).
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
White
Karakas - I actually happen to own a foil EMA copy so price isn't an issue here. I just want some more feedback as to how this has worked out for others and how people feel it compares to the next cards I mention. Like that is has zero drawback in terms of tempo.
Kor Haven - Maze of Ith+ since it taps for mana and still allows you to block profitably. Top contender.
Kjeldoran Outpost - Sacrificing a land is too high of a cost.
Castle Ardenvale - Five mana is too much for a 1/1 token generator.
Blue
Tolarian Academy - Probably the strongest but also fairly costly. Not sure my cube has enough artifact support to take advantage of this.
Shelldock Isle - CIPT and needing a library to be at half or less are pretty big drawbacks. Card has lots of fans though.
Academy Ruins - This card has been a major do-nothing in my cube. Still I'm not sure I have a more attractive option.
Faerie Conclave - Not a bad rate for this evasive manland, but monocolor manlands aren't wildly appealing to me. I already run the dual manlands and strongly prefer them.
Castle Vantress - Way too expensive just to scry.
Black
Volrath's Stronghold - This card has done a lot of work for me. This is almost certainly going to remain in my cube as the black part of this cycle.
Castle Lochtwain - Card can do great work in the right deck. I just think the combination of paying four mana and needing to be near madness to avoid a large life payment for 1 card is too much.
Red
Castle Embereth - As mentioned at the beginning. the other red options are too embarrassing to even list. Four mana for a until EOT Orcish Oriflamme (notably without the attacking restriction) is not great, but it is medium which I can bless for my cube.
Green
Gaea's Cradle - Quite obviously the best option but so insanely expensive (I do not proxy). So until they print a Cradle-lite that doesn't suck like Growing Rites of Itlimoc, I'm stuck with inferior options.
Treetop Village - The best of the mono-color man-lands, but as I mentioned previously. I'm not a big fan of these
Castle Garenbrig- Five mana for six mana but only for creature or creature abilities? Hard pass.
Any key players that I am missing? What would you run in a list like mine?
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Cheers,
rant
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
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Tolarian- works in powered lists especially, even without dedicated artifact.dec support.
Volrath- endgame champion if your manabase supports a colorless.
Embereth- yeah okay.
Cradle- busted in the right shells.
The creature lands are pretty good too if budget is an issue. The cheap activation cost and evasion makes them special, something most of the dual creature lands are lacking. They can help control planeswalkers and allow turns activating and holding up countermagic or activating plus another creature/spell to develop the board.
- Tolarian Acdemy / Faerie Conclave (Academy skippable if you're really not supporting an artifact theme)
- Volrath's Stronghold
- Castle Embereth
- Gaea's Cradle / Treetop Village (find room for both unless budget is a consideration, IMO)
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Thoughts?
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/116289
Nissa, Worldwaker by a long shot. Can untap with 4 mana compared to 1 the turn it comes down. Also produces 4/4's with trample, vs. 3/3's with no evasion.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Agree with this.
Cheers,
rant
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