I've run a light Goblin tribal theme before, because Goblins have multiple tutors, giving them a lot of redundancy (and Red access to actual tutors), plus a lot of token generation, and one of the better self-contained tribal cards in Siege-gang Commander. Ultimately, I ended up cutting a fair amount of them after seeing Goblin Recruiter going 15th-16th pick every draft.
Elves and Zombies are probably your other best bets.
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It's true, there's little outside of those that I really want. A couple cards interest me - Vraska, Relic Seeker is sort of interesting, and I picked up a Thaumatic Compass which might prove too slow - but pirates and dinosaurs haven't exactly taken over.
Speaking of tribes, has anyone tried out tribal themes in their cubes? After the Commander 2017 decks left me with a bunch of powerful tribal nonsense, I've been wanting to try them out. Past attempts have been a weak, but I want to know if you all have had success.
Yeah, my cube started out Tribal... I had a Lorwyn common/uncommon playset that filled the holes in the initial 360, and it took off from there.
6+ years on, and the more powerful tribes are still in. The ones that work best for me are Elves, Zombies and Knights, but it's really dependent on having about 10-11 cards good enough to be drafted on their own (assuming a 360 cube), and the players will do the rest. If you can do that, it will work.
My group is looking at Thaumatic Compass too... perhaps bringing it in for Trading Post, just because we love to durdle.
Thaumatic Compass is pretty big game. I ran it at the Ixalan pre-release and it was a huge deal. Journeyer's Kite is more or less good enough in Commander as-is, and the ability to flip into a Maze of Ith-type effect when you're set on lands is great. Works especially well with land untappers like Krosan Restorer or Stone-Seeder Hierophant, though not quite as well as Maze which infinites with Restorer.
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Thaumatic Compass is pretty big game. I ran it at the Ixalan pre-release and it was a huge deal. Journeyer's Kite is more or less good enough in Commander as-is, and the ability to flip into a Maze of Ith-type effect when you're set on lands is great. Works especially well with land untappers like Krosan Restorer or Stone-Seeder Hierophant, though not quite as well as Maze which infinites with Restorer.
I hate to be the bearer of non-bos... but Spires of Orazca specifically says "...attacking creature an opponent controls...". And no, I didn't know this either until one of my playgroup buddies pointed this out.
TBH, it at least helps me consider it to be not too broken for my cube... putting a Maze in when I've got six cards total that are capable of land removal? Probably not too wise...
Those look like solid changes overall except for Primal Amulet in for Trading Post. IMHO the Post is much more interesting and fun. Amulet seems slow and fairly boring.
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Those look like solid changes overall except for Primal Amulet in for Trading Post. IMHO the Post is much more interesting and fun. Amulet seems slow and fairly boring.
Yah, Amulet is definitely helped by the fact I have a strong Izzet Spells Matter archetype nowadays (where it should shine), though my group is bullish about it being OK outside of Izzet... I'll see. I'm fond of Trading Post too (although it is pretty durdly).
There's a golden rule about cards that offer your opponents two choices.... they always take the one you don't want them to.
If you have ways of playing around the exile clause (i.e. via Misthollow Griffin or other janky combos), Death or Glory is worth it. Outside of that, there are better options. One of my buddies is on a tear with Immortal Servitude in normal free-for-all at the moment - he pairs it with an Aristocrats-style build, and then ganks it all back into play once we think we've finally culled his resources.
I'm also running Miraculous Recovery in my cube, which is highly, highly underrated (HINT: INSTANT).
I wanted to talk about a subject that is particularly important to multiplayer cube design: mitigating variance. By that, I mostly mean mana screw since missing early land drops and falling behind in a 4+ player game is unforgiving, which can lead to a very boring experience if the player is taken out fast in an hour+ long game.
So, how can you reduce mana screw? First of all bounce lands and/or Temples can go a long way to helping. Beyond that, there are some cheap (CC wise) cards that filter/draw.
Preordain, Ponder,... Those are pretty much a lock in most cubes, but what about more marginal effects?
Do you think for example that Chart a Course is worth it? Not power-level wise (since blue has so many better draw spells), but in the aim to smooth out draws. Same with Night's Whisper, Tormenting Voice.
What else do you do to avoid non-games for your players?
My cube isn't strictly multiplayer, but we often use it for 3 player games.
I would say Chart a Course is there on power level, it's a decent draw spell with the usual discard synergies and it has done well 1v1 or 3-man. I would recommend Brainstorm,especially since you have doubled upon fetches. Green could add some of it's spells that put lands into play as fixing and ramp.
The rainbow lands like City of Brass and Gemstone Mine could help. Thawing Glaciers is good for slower multiplayer games, its basically uncounterable card advantage that fixes your mana (and can even ramp if you can flicker/untap it). More colour-fixing artifacts might help aswel, I'm a big fan of coalition relic
How you work your mulligans could help; letting players mulligan for free on 0 or 7 land hands helps a bit, I used to use that for commander in my group.
I didn't add Brainstorm, because it often isn't a great early play, but when you are desperate, you got to do what you got to do!
Green has Traverse the Ulvenwald and Oath of Nissa that are pretty good at fixing and have late game relevance. White has a few good ones like Land Tax, Oreskos Explorer, Knight of the White Orchard, and the other variants.
I'm not sure I understand how the rainbow lands help, but Thawing Glaciers could be playable (probably at lower power level than what I have though).
Personally I like to keep a low Mana curve for the entire cube. Even though we usually play multiplayer which tends to drag out into long games, I still keep the curve low for all potential archetypes in the cube. Very few cards at 5+ CMC in all colors. For my dual lands, I use fast lands (Seachrome coast, Blooming Marsh) and also scry lands (Temple of Malice, Temple of Enlightenment).
Blue typically has tons of filtering built into their piece of the color pie so I try to do what I can for the other colors. My red has Looting effects, white has equip/enchant tutors and recursion, green has creature tutors and color fixing, black also typically doesn't have a problem drawing extra cards and tutoring.
My cube is on the powerful side but nothing major OP such Force of Will or Mana Crypt.
I tried once to go lower curve and cut some finishers for some more efficient beaters, but that wasn't well accepted in my playgroup. They enjoy some splashier plays, but I do like your approach!
Mastermind's Acquisition in for Diabolic Tutor (still discussing what constitutes "outside of the game" - will be either sideboard, leftovers in the cube box, or your other decks from the night).
There were lots of other cards that were really close, too. Mostly we were specifically concerned with how easy/often City's Blessing would be turned on in some cards when there were likely other cards in the cube already that were stronger without it.
Just for the record, I'm considering Profane Procession to be the most slept-on card in the entire set. I ran into it at RIX pre-release and got utterly mangulated by it. If left unchecked, it's going to spend Turns 5-7 removing the biggest threat off the board, and then start sticking them all back into play one-by-one from Turn 8. That's a pretty good deal for Orzhov, which is likely grinding away with life totals already.
I'm not the biggest fan of Angrath, to be quite honest. I definitely wouldn't drop Aristocrat for it. I could get behind a change that removes the mediocre Murder king though.
I'm not sold on Elenda. She doesn't work particularly well as a commander because you can't trigger her last ability and still send her to the command zone.
Mastermind's Acquisition in for Diabolic Tutor (still discussing what constitutes "outside of the game" - will be either sideboard, leftovers in the cube box, or your other decks from the night).
This seems like a fine swap as Acquisition is strictly better. I'd recommend limiting it to the rest of your draft pool for pulling though.
This seems fine, Teysa is one of the most boring Orzhov commanders. What does your lineup look like? How many total commanders. I feel like, at 3, my choices would be one of Karlov for Life matters, OG Teysa for Tokens/Sac, and Obzedat for generic goodstuff.
Not a fan of this change, Staff of Nin is the card I've been holding up to show that Immortal Sun seems underwhelming.
There were lots of other cards that were really close, too. Mostly we were specifically concerned with how easy/often City's Blessing would be turned on in some cards when there were likely other cards in the cube already that were stronger without it.
Just for the record, I'm considering Profane Procession to be the most slept-on card in the entire set. I ran into it at RIX pre-release and got utterly mangulated by it. If left unchecked, it's going to spend Turns 5-7 removing the biggest threat off the board, and then start sticking them all back into play one-by-one from Turn 8. That's a pretty good deal for Orzhov, which is likely grinding away with life totals already.
I feel like City's Blessing is going to get turned on fairly easily. I like Arch of Orazca as a lategame draw engine. Orazca Relic is basically another Commander Sphere that trades fixing for lifegain. Tilonali's Summoner seems pretty strong as well, because he easily turns on Ascend just by attacking with 5 lands and nothing else on the board. Timestream Navigator seems imminently breakable, though you may want to avoid that. Twilight Prophet seems solid. Vona's Hunger also seems solid - even just being a one-sided Instant Innocent Blood is great, throw in the ability to easily eat half of your opponents' boards and this definitely gets the thumbs up.
The other card that it seems like you're missing is Journey to Eternity. The card just screams value.
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I'm not the biggest fan of Angrath, to be quite honest. I definitely wouldn't drop Aristocrat for it. I could get behind a change that removes the mediocre Murder king though.
Yeah, we're leaning towards Tymaret being the drop. I shall... er... influence that decision...
I'm not sold on Elenda. She doesn't work particularly well as a commander because you can't trigger her last ability and still send her to the command zone.
Hmm, there's a good point. That'll probably change things. She'd be really good in a sac/reanimate shell (I've done this with Gisa, Vat and Dictate of Erebos before, with Gary as the reanimation target), but I dunno if she's strong enough to crack the 360.
This seems fine, Teysa is one of the most boring Orzhov commanders. What does your lineup look like? How many total commanders. I feel like, at 3, my choices would be one of Karlov for Life matters, OG Teysa for Tokens/Sac, and Obzedat for generic goodstuff.
I've literally just tacked a commander section onto my 360 (which already included potential commanders). So Ayli and Karlov are in the main 360 historically. The commander section has two Orzhov slots, currently filled by Teysa and Ghost Dad. We're slowly moving the legendaries out of the 360 and into the commander section to fit awesome non-commander cards in (like this one).
Not a fan of this change, Staff of Nin is the card I've been holding up to show that Immortal Sun seems underwhelming.
Yeah, it was a tough one, and I'm going to be interested to see how it plays. One of my playgroup buddies was advocating dropping Mind's Eye for it instead.
I feel like City's Blessing is going to get turned on fairly easily. I like Arch of Orazca as a lategame draw engine. Orazca Relic is basically another Commander Sphere that trades fixing for lifegain. Tilonali's Summoner seems pretty strong as well, because he easily turns on Ascend just by attacking with 5 lands and nothing else on the board. Timestream Navigator seems imminently breakable, though you may want to avoid that. Twilight Prophet seems solid. Vona's Hunger also seems solid - even just being a one-sided Instant Innocent Blood is great, throw in the ability to easily eat half of your opponents' boards and this definitely gets the thumbs up.The other card that it seems like you're missing is Journey to Eternity. The card just screams value.
Yeah, Twilight Prophet, Vona's Hunger and Journey to Eternity were all really, really close - they were more victims of how awesome the cards existing in those slots already really are. You pretty much need to sell your firstborn child to crack into my Golgari section in particular (which is historically the tightest guild in my cube).
Twilight Prophet was probably dropping Marauding Knight to get in, but that helps two separate tribes (it's a Zombie too nowadays), and my concern was that the Prophet was going to have days where it was nothing but a French Vanilla 2/4 (even if it goes utterly bananas once you've got ten permanents). Was close, though.
Vona's Hunger would've had to unseat Hero's Downfall, and I think we'll be needing the targeted planeswalker removal when the redirection rules get removed soon.
I've literally just tacked a commander section onto my 360 (which already included potential commanders). So Ayli and Karlov are in the main 360 historically. The commander section has two Orzhov slots, currently filled by Teysa and Ghost Dad. We're slowly moving the legendaries out of the 360 and into the commander section to fit awesome non-commander cards in (like this one).
At two, I'd suggest Ayli as a combination sacs and life matters general and then Obzedat for goodstuff.
Yeah, it was a tough one, and I'm going to be interested to see how it plays. One of my playgroup buddies was advocating dropping Mind's Eye for it instead.
Whoah now, that's just heresy.
Yeah, Twilight Prophet, Vona's Hunger and Journey to Eternity were all really, really close - they were more victims of how awesome the cards existing in those slots already really are. You pretty much need to sell your firstborn child to crack into my Golgari section in particular (which is historically the tightest guild in my cube).
Twilight Prophet was probably dropping Marauding Knight to get in, but that helps two separate tribes (it's a Zombie too nowadays), and my concern was that the Prophet was going to have days where it was nothing but a French Vanilla 2/4 (even if it goes utterly bananas once you've got ten permanents). Was close, though.
Vona's Hunger would've had to unseat Hero's Downfall, and I think we'll be needing the targeted planeswalker removal when the redirection rules get removed soon.
Marauding Knight seems really mediocre. I'd definitely give the Prophet a try over him. It's not even Crusading Knight which can combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for shenanigans.
Also note, the redirection rules being removed will be coupled with every targeted burn spell getting the text "Or planeswalker" tacked onto it. IDK yet how they're handling sweepers like Earthquake or other untargeted burn like Eidolon of the Great Revel, but I wouldn't sweat losing too many answers to walkers.
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Right now I'm working on a multiplayer cube, with a few custom cards created for it, and lots of returning mechanics from Conspiracy 2 (Monarch, Goad, and Melee).
I'd like to have a loose archetype for each wedge and shard, with synergies between the archetypes, but I'm not quite sure about the archetype for UBR and WUR. So far I've got:
GWU: Defensive creatures and pillowfort
Example cards: Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Wall of Blossoms
Synergies: WG in WGR due to creatures with high toughness, WG in WGB due to lots of defensive enchantments, UG in UBG since has long game-plan and doesn't need to win through attacking
BRG: Reanimator and other ways of cheating big creatures into play
Example cards: Exhume, Sneak Attack, Natural Order
Synergies: RG in RGU since big creatures can also be ramped into play, RG in RGW since your big creatures can also survive damage-based sweepers, BG in UBG since mill can create more reanimation targets
RGW: Damage-based sweepers and resilient creatures
Example cards: Earthquake, Hurricane, Wave of Reckoning
Synergies: GW in GWU due to defensive creatures with high toughness, RG in RGU since lots of expensive sorceries, RW in BRW since sweepers can also hit players
WUR: ?
UBG: Mill, green for recursion from your graveyard to the top of your library to make you less llikely to deck yourself
Example cards: Glimpse the Unknown, Lord of Extinction, Anurid Scavenger
Synergies: BG in BRG since mill can create more reanimation targets, UG in GWU since has long game-plan and doesn't need to win through attacking
RGU: Ramp and expensive or X-spells, with a sorcery theme
Example cards: Heartbeat of Spring, Braingeyser, Rolling Thunder
Synergies: RG in BRG since big creatures can also be ramped into play, RG in RGW since lots of expensive sorceries
For the two remaining color combos, these are some of my ideas:
URW
Goad, misdirection, controlling other players attack steps through cards like Master Warcraft. My only issue is this isn't necessarily a "build around," just a collection of the same effect that isn't inherently synergistic with itself. Could work well with UBW voting, though, which needs more synergy.
Artifacts...might feel a bit done to death, though.
Dragon tribal? A bit out of left field, but it is fine and works in multiplayer.
Basically, Zedruu, with a whooole lot of custom cards. Stuff like Gilded Drake, Brand, etc. Also would go well with WUB voting.
UBR
Sacrificing creatures "aristocrat" style. Could be good to have at least one creature-based strategy that isn't a horrible match-up to the GRW board wipes. Could be combined with temporary creature stealing effects too, like Reins of Power and Threaten.
Cheap cards, prowess, and wheel effects to refill hand. Would go well with UBG mill since the wheel effects would deck people faster.
For the two remaining color combos, these are some of my ideas:
URW
Goad, misdirection, controlling other players attack steps through cards like Master Warcraft. My only issue is this isn't necessarily a "build around," just a collection of the same effect that isn't inherently synergistic with itself. Could work well with UBW voting, though, which needs more synergy.
Artifacts...might feel a bit done to death, though.
Dragon tribal? A bit out of left field, but it is fine and works in multiplayer.
Basically, Zedruu, with a whooole lot of custom cards. Stuff like Gilded Drake, Brand, etc. Also would go well with WUB voting.
UBR
Sacrificing creatures "aristocrat" style. Could be good to have at least one creature-based strategy that isn't a horrible match-up to the GRW board wipes. Could be combined with temporary creature stealing effects too, like Reins of Power and Threaten.
Cheap cards, prowess, and wheel effects to refill hand. Would go well with UBG mill since the wheel effects would deck people faster.
I think that knowing what you want to do with your sections is a good idea, but all 10 shard/wedges seem a lot (especially if you aren't sure what to do with a few).
Maybe pick 5 shard or wedges you want to support and flesh out all 10 of the guilds plan and how it works with your goal for each shard/wedge. Otherwise I'm afraid you are trying to do too much for a cube draft.
Then in your Golgari guild, have cards that hint to the game plan. Grim Flayer and Lotleth Troll for example, both enable you to get your reanimation spells going. But they also might fit in your self-mill Sultai decks.Meren of Clan Nel Toth can potentially recur big things and is great in a sacrifice deck.
The red cheat spells all have cards sacrificed or sent to the graveyard. A Deathreap Ritual would synergize well with them.
Then you realize that Pattern of Rebirth and Recurring Nightmare go well in your Abzhan enchantment theme, so that is a great bonus. They even go in your sacrifice decks. Basically trying to layer as much as possible so that when you draft, you aren't drafting on rails as KLT mentioned.
Anger vs Hamilar Battlements: I'm thinking of switching the land for Anger. Not that the land is bad, but the potential upside of Anger seems higher since it's a free activation. What I don't know how to factor in is land vs deck slot. How much more valuable is it being a land? Enough that it's still better than Anger?
Wheel of Fortune: Red is really bad at drawing cards, but wheel seems tough to play since it gives new cards to everybody. I support reanimator strategies, artifact.dec and have some fast mana (5 ABU moxen, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith). Is that enough to make up for the downside of giving everybody cards (we are talking 3-4 player FFA).
The other option is to cut it and replace it with a second Faithless Looting.
Anger vs Hamilar Battlements: I'm thinking of switching the land for Anger. Not that the land is bad, but the potential upside of Anger seems higher since it's a free activation. What I don't know how to factor in is land vs deck slot. How much more valuable is it being a land? Enough that it's still better than Anger?
Wheel of Fortune: Red is really bad at drawing cards, but wheel seems tough to play since it gives new cards to everybody. I support reanimator strategies, artifact.dec and have some fast mana (5 ABU moxen, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith). Is that enough to make up for the downside of giving everybody cards (we are talking 3-4 player FFA).
The other option is to cut it and replace it with a second Faithless Looting.
Thanks!
Lands are strong because they don't *really* take up deck construction slots when building, though if you draft too many colorless lands you can run into issues.
Anger, on the other hand, is a card I'm rather fond of, so this is a tough call. Do you run Flamekin Village? I like EBT tapped most of the time over the colorless, since it means it doesn't hurt your ability to produce colored mana.
Wheel of Fortune is so much better than Looting. Sure, everyone else gets cards, but you get to control when it happens. The player to your right just draw a ton off of Recurring Insight or just double-tutored with Increasing Ambition? Seems like the perfect time for everyone to get a new hand.
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Elves and Zombies are probably your other best bets.
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Yeah, my cube started out Tribal... I had a Lorwyn common/uncommon playset that filled the holes in the initial 360, and it took off from there.
6+ years on, and the more powerful tribes are still in. The ones that work best for me are Elves, Zombies and Knights, but it's really dependent on having about 10-11 cards good enough to be drafted on their own (assuming a 360 cube), and the players will do the rest. If you can do that, it will work.
My group is looking at Thaumatic Compass too... perhaps bringing it in for Trading Post, just because we love to durdle.
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I hate to be the bearer of non-bos... but Spires of Orazca specifically says "...attacking creature an opponent controls...". And no, I didn't know this either until one of my playgroup buddies pointed this out.
TBH, it at least helps me consider it to be not too broken for my cube... putting a Maze in when I've got six cards total that are capable of land removal? Probably not too wise...
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Yah, Amulet is definitely helped by the fact I have a strong Izzet Spells Matter archetype nowadays (where it should shine), though my group is bullish about it being OK outside of Izzet... I'll see. I'm fond of Trading Post too (although it is pretty durdly).
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It seems like it would be pretty easy to set up 2 decent piles. And with the casting cost, it seems pretty splashable.
I'd like to give white some graveyard options in order to open up different archetypes in the cube.
So far white has:
I could see myself also adding Increasing Devotion and Dusk // Dawn in addition to a few multicolored cards already present (Lingering Souls, Prepare // Fight, Renegade Rallier, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death)
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There's a golden rule about cards that offer your opponents two choices.... they always take the one you don't want them to.
If you have ways of playing around the exile clause (i.e. via Misthollow Griffin or other janky combos), Death or Glory is worth it. Outside of that, there are better options. One of my buddies is on a tear with Immortal Servitude in normal free-for-all at the moment - he pairs it with an Aristocrats-style build, and then ganks it all back into play once we think we've finally culled his resources.
I'm also running Miraculous Recovery in my cube, which is highly, highly underrated (HINT: INSTANT).
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I wanted to talk about a subject that is particularly important to multiplayer cube design: mitigating variance. By that, I mostly mean mana screw since missing early land drops and falling behind in a 4+ player game is unforgiving, which can lead to a very boring experience if the player is taken out fast in an hour+ long game.
So, how can you reduce mana screw? First of all bounce lands and/or Temples can go a long way to helping. Beyond that, there are some cheap (CC wise) cards that filter/draw.
Preordain, Ponder,... Those are pretty much a lock in most cubes, but what about more marginal effects?
Do you think for example that Chart a Course is worth it? Not power-level wise (since blue has so many better draw spells), but in the aim to smooth out draws. Same with Night's Whisper, Tormenting Voice.
What else do you do to avoid non-games for your players?
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I would say Chart a Course is there on power level, it's a decent draw spell with the usual discard synergies and it has done well 1v1 or 3-man. I would recommend Brainstorm,especially since you have doubled upon fetches. Green could add some of it's spells that put lands into play as fixing and ramp.
The rainbow lands like City of Brass and Gemstone Mine could help. Thawing Glaciers is good for slower multiplayer games, its basically uncounterable card advantage that fixes your mana (and can even ramp if you can flicker/untap it). More colour-fixing artifacts might help aswel, I'm a big fan of coalition relic
How you work your mulligans could help; letting players mulligan for free on 0 or 7 land hands helps a bit, I used to use that for commander in my group.
I didn't add Brainstorm, because it often isn't a great early play, but when you are desperate, you got to do what you got to do!
Green has Traverse the Ulvenwald and Oath of Nissa that are pretty good at fixing and have late game relevance. White has a few good ones like Land Tax, Oreskos Explorer, Knight of the White Orchard, and the other variants.
I'm not sure I understand how the rainbow lands help, but Thawing Glaciers could be playable (probably at lower power level than what I have though).
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Blue typically has tons of filtering built into their piece of the color pie so I try to do what I can for the other colors. My red has Looting effects, white has equip/enchant tutors and recursion, green has creature tutors and color fixing, black also typically doesn't have a problem drawing extra cards and tutoring.
My cube is on the powerful side but nothing major OP such Force of Will or Mana Crypt.
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I will use the results to produce a 2017 version of the optimal Multiplayer cube again (for giggles... or punishment... or something)...
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Just for the record, I'm considering Profane Procession to be the most slept-on card in the entire set. I ran into it at RIX pre-release and got utterly mangulated by it. If left unchecked, it's going to spend Turns 5-7 removing the biggest threat off the board, and then start sticking them all back into play one-by-one from Turn 8. That's a pretty good deal for Orzhov, which is likely grinding away with life totals already.
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Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
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I'm not the biggest fan of Angrath, to be quite honest. I definitely wouldn't drop Aristocrat for it. I could get behind a change that removes the mediocre Murder king though.
This seems fine.
I'm not sold on Elenda. She doesn't work particularly well as a commander because you can't trigger her last ability and still send her to the command zone.
This seems like a fine swap as Acquisition is strictly better. I'd recommend limiting it to the rest of your draft pool for pulling though.
This seems fine, Teysa is one of the most boring Orzhov commanders. What does your lineup look like? How many total commanders. I feel like, at 3, my choices would be one of Karlov for Life matters, OG Teysa for Tokens/Sac, and Obzedat for generic goodstuff.
Not a fan of this change, Staff of Nin is the card I've been holding up to show that Immortal Sun seems underwhelming.
I feel like City's Blessing is going to get turned on fairly easily. I like Arch of Orazca as a lategame draw engine. Orazca Relic is basically another Commander Sphere that trades fixing for lifegain. Tilonali's Summoner seems pretty strong as well, because he easily turns on Ascend just by attacking with 5 lands and nothing else on the board. Timestream Navigator seems imminently breakable, though you may want to avoid that. Twilight Prophet seems solid. Vona's Hunger also seems solid - even just being a one-sided Instant Innocent Blood is great, throw in the ability to easily eat half of your opponents' boards and this definitely gets the thumbs up.
The other card that it seems like you're missing is Journey to Eternity. The card just screams value.
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Yeah, we're leaning towards Tymaret being the drop. I shall... er... influence that decision...
Hmm, there's a good point. That'll probably change things. She'd be really good in a sac/reanimate shell (I've done this with Gisa, Vat and Dictate of Erebos before, with Gary as the reanimation target), but I dunno if she's strong enough to crack the 360.
I've literally just tacked a commander section onto my 360 (which already included potential commanders). So Ayli and Karlov are in the main 360 historically. The commander section has two Orzhov slots, currently filled by Teysa and Ghost Dad. We're slowly moving the legendaries out of the 360 and into the commander section to fit awesome non-commander cards in (like this one).
Yeah, it was a tough one, and I'm going to be interested to see how it plays. One of my playgroup buddies was advocating dropping Mind's Eye for it instead.
Yeah, Twilight Prophet, Vona's Hunger and Journey to Eternity were all really, really close - they were more victims of how awesome the cards existing in those slots already really are. You pretty much need to sell your firstborn child to crack into my Golgari section in particular (which is historically the tightest guild in my cube).
Twilight Prophet was probably dropping Marauding Knight to get in, but that helps two separate tribes (it's a Zombie too nowadays), and my concern was that the Prophet was going to have days where it was nothing but a French Vanilla 2/4 (even if it goes utterly bananas once you've got ten permanents). Was close, though.
Vona's Hunger would've had to unseat Hero's Downfall, and I think we'll be needing the targeted planeswalker removal when the redirection rules get removed soon.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
At two, I'd suggest Ayli as a combination sacs and life matters general and then Obzedat for goodstuff.
Whoah now, that's just heresy.
Marauding Knight seems really mediocre. I'd definitely give the Prophet a try over him. It's not even Crusading Knight which can combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth for shenanigans.
Also note, the redirection rules being removed will be coupled with every targeted burn spell getting the text "Or planeswalker" tacked onto it. IDK yet how they're handling sweepers like Earthquake or other untargeted burn like Eidolon of the Great Revel, but I wouldn't sweat losing too many answers to walkers.
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I'd like to have a loose archetype for each wedge and shard, with synergies between the archetypes, but I'm not quite sure about the archetype for UBR and WUR. So far I've got:
GWU: Defensive creatures and pillowfort
Example cards: Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Wall of Blossoms
Synergies: WG in WGR due to creatures with high toughness, WG in WGB due to lots of defensive enchantments, UG in UBG since has long game-plan and doesn't need to win through attacking
WUB: Voting
Example cards: Ballot Broker, Illusion of Choice, Grudge Keeper
Synergies:
UBR: ?
BRG: Reanimator and other ways of cheating big creatures into play
Example cards: Exhume, Sneak Attack, Natural Order
Synergies: RG in RGU since big creatures can also be ramped into play, RG in RGW since your big creatures can also survive damage-based sweepers, BG in UBG since mill can create more reanimation targets
RGW: Damage-based sweepers and resilient creatures
Example cards: Earthquake, Hurricane, Wave of Reckoning
Synergies: GW in GWU due to defensive creatures with high toughness, RG in RGU since lots of expensive sorceries, RW in BRW since sweepers can also hit players
WUR: ?
UBG: Mill, green for recursion from your graveyard to the top of your library to make you less llikely to deck yourself
Example cards: Glimpse the Unknown, Lord of Extinction, Anurid Scavenger
Synergies: BG in BRG since mill can create more reanimation targets, UG in GWU since has long game-plan and doesn't need to win through attacking
BRW: Group slug and surviving it through lifegain
Example cards: Soulcage Fiend, Hidetsugu the Heartless, Dega Sanctuary
Synergies: RW in RGW since sweepers can also hit players
RGU: Ramp and expensive or X-spells, with a sorcery theme
Example cards: Heartbeat of Spring, Braingeyser, Rolling Thunder
Synergies: RG in BRG since big creatures can also be ramped into play, RG in RGW since lots of expensive sorceries
GWB: Enchantress
Example cards: Enchantress's Presence, Sigil of the Empty Throne, Doomwake Giant
Synergies: WG in UWG due to lots of defensive enchantments
For the two remaining color combos, these are some of my ideas:
URW
UBR
Any thoughts/suggestions?
Corrupt Control B | Burn R | UG Turbofog UG | White Weenie W | GW Tethmos WG | BG Cycling Combo BG
Enchantress GBW | Colorless Tron C | Red Deck Wins R | UG Madness UG | Mono-G Tron G | UR Puzzlehorns UR
Rhystic Tron WU| WU Prowess WU | BR Reanimator BR | Mono-R Control R | Stompy G | Temur Tron URG
Mardu Infinite Priest WBR | 85-Card Dredge BRG | Elves GU | Boros Bully RW | Jeskai Familiars RWU
Spell Redirection - Willbender, Redirect, Misdirection
Spell Copy - Reverberate, Wild Ricochet, Dualcaster Mage, Reiterate
Attack Redirection - Portal Mage, Illusionist's Gambit, Disrupt Decorum
Damage Redirection - Boros Reckoner, Spitemare, Mogg Maniac, Vengeful Archon, Harm's Way, Kor Chant, Razia, Boros Archangel, Reflect Damage, Shining Shoal
I don't think this would work in a duel, but in multiplayer, it can be effective.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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Maybe pick 5 shard or wedges you want to support and flesh out all 10 of the guilds plan and how it works with your goal for each shard/wedge. Otherwise I'm afraid you are trying to do too much for a cube draft.
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
For example your Jund shard of cheating big creatures could look like:
Red: Sneak Attack, Feldon of the Third Path, Goblin Welder, Daretti, Scrap Savant
Black: Animate Dead, Living Death, Recurring Nightmare
Green: Oath of Druids, Selvala's Stampede, Pattern of Rebirth
Then in your Golgari guild, have cards that hint to the game plan. Grim Flayer and Lotleth Troll for example, both enable you to get your reanimation spells going. But they also might fit in your self-mill Sultai decks.Meren of Clan Nel Toth can potentially recur big things and is great in a sacrifice deck.
The red cheat spells all have cards sacrificed or sent to the graveyard. A Deathreap Ritual would synergize well with them.
Then you realize that Pattern of Rebirth and Recurring Nightmare go well in your Abzhan enchantment theme, so that is a great bonus. They even go in your sacrifice decks. Basically trying to layer as much as possible so that when you draft, you aren't drafting on rails as KLT mentioned.
Anyways, good luck! This is the fun part in cube
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Anger vs Hamilar Battlements: I'm thinking of switching the land for Anger. Not that the land is bad, but the potential upside of Anger seems higher since it's a free activation. What I don't know how to factor in is land vs deck slot. How much more valuable is it being a land? Enough that it's still better than Anger?
Wheel of Fortune: Red is really bad at drawing cards, but wheel seems tough to play since it gives new cards to everybody. I support reanimator strategies, artifact.dec and have some fast mana (5 ABU moxen, Mox Diamond, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith). Is that enough to make up for the downside of giving everybody cards (we are talking 3-4 player FFA).
The other option is to cut it and replace it with a second Faithless Looting.
Thanks!
My 450ish 1vs1 cube
Lands are strong because they don't *really* take up deck construction slots when building, though if you draft too many colorless lands you can run into issues.
Anger, on the other hand, is a card I'm rather fond of, so this is a tough call. Do you run Flamekin Village? I like EBT tapped most of the time over the colorless, since it means it doesn't hurt your ability to produce colored mana.
Wheel of Fortune is so much better than Looting. Sure, everyone else gets cards, but you get to control when it happens. The player to your right just draw a ton off of Recurring Insight or just double-tutored with Increasing Ambition? Seems like the perfect time for everyone to get a new hand.
Currently Playing:
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