Someone on reddit commented that floating mana into this card is disgusting--and he's right if you can make it work; it's like the mono-white upheaval-sorta. Unfortunately, WWWW is a crazy cost, and removing all the cards in play can really screw you. I'm not too sure what to think about it.
This is hands down the most annoying card in my cube. You'll have the other player down to their last few life on an empty board, and they'll cast this card out of nowhere. It's the ultimate *** since it recovers you from ANY board position. Even worse, if you're on the winning side, you likely played your good cards - guess what you don't get to use during the minigame?
I hate and love this card at the same time. On one hand, it's the epitome of Un-shenanigans. On the other, it's ridiculously OP and I hate seeing it on the other side of the table.
Quadruple white (and frankly, heavy mono colour cards) aren't difficult to build around, and this card is certainly one worth building around. You won't be casting this card anyway until it's clear that you're out of the running.
Unless you are encouraging players to play mono white, WWWW is almost uncastable in time. Even on turn 11, this is harder to cast than a WW card on turn 2 (64-71% with 10 white sources and no mulligan).
It look like a good card, but this looks too rough. About what "mana" would this be around in an average 2 color deck? 7? 8? 9?
Heh. Gatecrash was so bad for cube people are digging through the Un-sets for buried treasure.
The effect of this card is good. Even if you are not floating much mana, an aggro deck restarting the game with everyone on ten life should be in a strong position. The quadruple white casting cost is pretty rough. If you have access to that much white mana, your deck is likely to be heavy white, so you'll be wanting to float white mana to play your white spells. I think that kills it for me.
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It look like a good card, but this looks too rough. About what "mana" would this be around in an average 2 color deck? 7? 8? 9?
Well the upside is that you only want to play it when you are losing, just before you die, so its slowness doesn't matter that much as you never want to play it turn four (superfast aggro or crazy powered starts notwithstanding).
I don't think the set was as bad as it initially looked, unless you're playing a 360 or smaller cube.
Well, I am running a 360 cube, so in my opinion, it's as bad as initially evaluated.
Luckily, Dragon Maze is almost around a corner. I'll actually start to become real remember of society this coming June, though. So it'll get rough soon.
This card looks really, really good for the same reasons as Upheaval is. In your average white weenie deck, this seems pretty ridiculously powerful. Casting it with only 4 mana is actually good for an aggro deck, and when you cast it with 6-7 mana it seems great. If you ever cast it with 8 or more mana, it seems really hard to lose.
After the last few drafts and the comments on the board lately I am going to stockup on some Un set cards. My group likes them, many are quite powerful, and the price can't be beat. I only assume these sets will go up in time as they start to get scarce and new casual players find them.
On topic. This card is bonkers, 4 mana restart the game. Yes please. On power level it makes it and it doesn't use any of the Un mechanics I don't like(Deterity, language, humor).
I can't remember the specific incident that made us stop using this but its kind of a pain if you have a player who complains about subgames. However, what I think bears noting is that its not only Upheaval #2 its a better Shahrazad. The Upheaval mode is much harder due to the mana cost -- also, remember, you have to exile your lands so your library will be thinned of mana. Against ramp decks, that can actually be important if they lose 7 lands to your 4 or something.
Shahrazad is actually not that good because its value goes down quickly (if they are at 10 they would only lose 5) and because it doesn't make you at all favored in the subgame. Most of the time, it almost feels pointless.
But Once More is actually a card that heavily encourages you to go (near) mono-W when we played it. I never saw anyone use it like Upheaval/Karn ultimate. I rated it a little higher than Armageddon and after I read this thread I lobbied to bring it back, so I think it'll be in our new draft we do (soon hopefully)
On the subject of subgames, Upheaval/Karn is a much bigger offender of making games take longer than a card like Once More or Enter the Dungeon. Both of those favor aggro decks that tend to win or lose fast anyway. But there are some players who ride "subgame?!" as a hobby horse.
I played it three or four times and its really like an Upheaval for aggro. You got them to a low life, stalled, and now you're waiting to lose. They're filling their graveyard with spells and playing tons of land while you just sit their.
Then, barring counterspell you can play OMWF and all the sudde you're significantly ahead.
Come to think of it, maybe "slightly better" than Armageddon is being conservative.
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I hate and love this card at the same time. On one hand, it's the epitome of Un-shenanigans. On the other, it's ridiculously OP and I hate seeing it on the other side of the table.
Quadruple white (and frankly, heavy mono colour cards) aren't difficult to build around, and this card is certainly one worth building around. You won't be casting this card anyway until it's clear that you're out of the running.
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It look like a good card, but this looks too rough. About what "mana" would this be around in an average 2 color deck? 7? 8? 9?
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The effect of this card is good. Even if you are not floating much mana, an aggro deck restarting the game with everyone on ten life should be in a strong position. The quadruple white casting cost is pretty rough. If you have access to that much white mana, your deck is likely to be heavy white, so you'll be wanting to float white mana to play your white spells. I think that kills it for me.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Well the upside is that you only want to play it when you are losing, just before you die, so its slowness doesn't matter that much as you never want to play it turn four (superfast aggro or crazy powered starts notwithstanding).
This also combos nicely with the Parallax cards:o
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I don't think the set was as bad as it initially looked, unless you're playing a 360 or smaller cube.
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Well, I am running a 360 cube, so in my opinion, it's as bad as initially evaluated.
Luckily, Dragon Maze is almost around a corner. I'll actually start to become real remember of society this coming June, though. So it'll get rough soon.
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On topic. This card is bonkers, 4 mana restart the game. Yes please. On power level it makes it and it doesn't use any of the Un mechanics I don't like(Deterity, language, humor).
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
I think your % played are pretty cool data, but I'm just curious, what sort of sample size are we talking about in general?
Shahrazad is actually not that good because its value goes down quickly (if they are at 10 they would only lose 5) and because it doesn't make you at all favored in the subgame. Most of the time, it almost feels pointless.
But Once More is actually a card that heavily encourages you to go (near) mono-W when we played it. I never saw anyone use it like Upheaval/Karn ultimate. I rated it a little higher than Armageddon and after I read this thread I lobbied to bring it back, so I think it'll be in our new draft we do (soon hopefully)
On the subject of subgames, Upheaval/Karn is a much bigger offender of making games take longer than a card like Once More or Enter the Dungeon. Both of those favor aggro decks that tend to win or lose fast anyway. But there are some players who ride "subgame?!" as a hobby horse.
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I played it three or four times and its really like an Upheaval for aggro. You got them to a low life, stalled, and now you're waiting to lose. They're filling their graveyard with spells and playing tons of land while you just sit their.
Then, barring counterspell you can play OMWF and all the sudde you're significantly ahead.
Come to think of it, maybe "slightly better" than Armageddon is being conservative.
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