Melira Combo shares a characteristic with Splinter Twin Combo: many of the cards are already in the Cube. However, you need three cards in order to get Melira Combo going, whereas Splinter Twin is a two card combo.
I thought of adding Blasting Station and/or Goblin Bombardment anyway to take advantage of the many recurring creatures added to black as part of the Pox Archetype. Would it be enough to add one of these and Melira, Sylvok Outcast? Or should I add additional sacrifice outlets, especially creature based ones, and Safehold Elite as an additional persist creature?
Does anyone have experience with Melira Combo in Cube? Can anyone think of more ways to abuse the combo pieces discussed? Is it worth a try or is it doomed to fail? Discuss!
I guess I would be okay with it if there was a third persist/undying creature. Geralf's Messenger is just too black I think.
Note that Melira + Redcap is infinite ETB and death triggers, if anyone cares (redcap just targets itself), but unless you're playing Soul Warden, that's useless and even if, we're back to a three-card combo.
Rules question: Can you activate Gargadon's ability if there are no time counter on it? Does it still count as "suspended"?
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I guess I would be okay with it if there was a third persist/undying creature. Geralf's Messenger is just too black I think.
Well, it has to be persist, because Melira only cares about -1/-1 counters. That's why I brought up Safehold Elite, or is there another remotely playable persist creature?
Well, it has to be persist, because Melira only cares about -1/-1 counters. That's why I brought up Safehold Elite, or is there another remotely playable persist creature?
I forgot about that one, likely because I focused on green, red and black. Now talk about protecting the combo! With Melira out, Glen Elendra Archmage basically never allows them to cast a non-creature spell, ever (provided you have U available for every spell they try to cast).
Cathars' Crusade
Ghave, Guru of Spores (sort of)
Sigil Captain (only works with Redcap and Safehold Elite)
Graft cards (not infinitely repeatable)
meh. There's also the twisted version of Mikaeus plus
Soul Snuffers
Tatterkite
Pith Driller
Skinrender
Canker Abomination
Carnifex Demon
Chainbreaker
Cultbrand Cinder
Grief Tyrant
Grim Poppet
Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
Leech Bonder
the Hatchlings from Eventide
Lots of crap on that list and the enabler is a six-mana creature instead of a bear, but the list of possible combos is a lot longer.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
Unfortunately, it's not the lack of persist creatures that make this combo not-viable in my opinion. It's the fact that there is just one Melira, and you need her. Mikaeus just isn't worth it for the combo potential, as he is a 6-mana finisher.
The thing about the "Splinter Twin" combo, is that there are a lot of ways to get it going:
Splinter Twin or Kiki-Jiki + Deceiver Exarch, Zealous Conscripts, Pestermite or Restoration Angel
These all set up an instant win with just two cards. And even then, it's only just good/consistent enough to be added to a cube imo, particularly because most of the cards are playable anyway (particularly Kiki-Jiki, Restoration Angel and Conscripts).
The Melira combo seems almost as hard as trying to support High Tide/Palinchron combo in a cube.
Unfortunately, it's not the lack of persist creatures that make this combo not-viable in my opinion. It's the fact that there is just one Melira, and you need her. Mikaeus just isn't worth it for the combo potential, as he is a 6-mana finisher.
I don't think only having one Melira is the main problem, the main problem is that the combo requires three cards which is so much harder to assemble than two. That is why Splinter Twin and Tinker work.
The Melira combo seems almost as hard as trying to support High Tide/Palinchron combo in a cube.
Don't crush my dreams! I always keep a High Tide and a Palinchron close at hand in case I can think of a way to support it in Cube! There are several tutors that get High Tide, the only problem I have to solve is what to do with all the mana or that storm count. The natural answer is Stroke of Genius (over Braingeyser because of aforementioned tutors) or Brain Freeze.
I guess I like to dedicate a few slots to enable niche combos. I have some hopes for the Melira combo despite the fact that it is a three card combo because it can be assembled with all the creature tutors in green. I'm currently debating whether I want to try a minimal package (just add Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Blasting Station) or an extended package (additionally add Juniper Order Ranger, Scarland Thrinax and maybe Goblin Bombardment). Either way I have to make some cuts, so I have to wait because I want to play first with other recent changes.
Now that we have Master Biomancer as Melira #3, do we now have a critical mass for this combo? Or is it a pipe dream, since it's still a 3-card combo? I really want this to be playable in cube...
I think that is playgroup dependent. If all your players want to do is win the draft, then this combo is not consistent enough. But if they like to play this combo even if it means they are less likely to win the draft, go for it. I think the cost is relatively low, because the persist creatures are Cube staples, the sac outlets are also very good in other decks, and two of the Meliras are good additions to token decks. The only really bad card is Melira, I guess, but at least she is a bear
I know this isn't good, just found the interaction and was intrested in it as most cubes probably run three of the four listed
This is just another way to go infinite, from the point of view of the Cube designer it does not change anything, because the real question is whether or not to add Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Master Biomancer and/or Juniper Order Ranger.
Other combo cards like kiki jiki or splintertwin, or pestermite are pretty good cards on their own but the combo is icing on the cake. Melira is a sexy ginger grizzly bear. I'm reluctant to try adding this combo.
Id say biomancer and Mikaeus are better in cube at being melira, then melira herself.
Okay, so one of my regular players asked if we could add a bit more combo to the cube. I currently run the Pestermite/Exarch/Zealous Conscripts/Kiki-Jiki/Restoration Angel set, and also have Oath of Druids as a one-card build-around. He suggested Melira, which intrigued me.
I already have Woodfall Primus, Finks, Redcap, Puppeteer Clique, and Glen Elendra, with Gargadon and Goblin Bombardment as sac outlets. (And heck, even if it isn't infinite, I'd probably run Melira in a green deck with Primus and Finks...)
However, Muzzio's Preparations makes this combo MUCH stronger, since it is guaranteed to be in play, thus changing the three-card combo into a two-card. Does this push it over the edge?
There is yet another card for this combo package: Archangel of Thune, who allows you to gain infinite life (and arbitrarily large creatures) in combination with Kitchen Finks and a sac outlet.
I don't run the combo, but there are so many intriguing pieces - including a few cube staples - that I am thinking about including Melira, Mikaeus and Archangel to enable it.
Admittedly, Melira, Sylvok Outcast plays much like Grizzly Bears. The good thing is that if they have no way of knowing your hand it is a bear with built in lightning rod. And occasionally you get a combo together. So it is really a playgroup dependent thing. If what you are looking for is mainly efficiency this combo is not for you, it is for tinkerers.
Muzzio's Preparations only enables one persist creature, but reduces the number of cards required for the combo. With Muzzio's I'd probably go for a grixis build because you have a lot of tutoring and card manipulation available in blue and black and the red is good for sac outlets (and for casting Murderous Redcap, I guess).
Melira Combo works with the fact that with Melira, Sylvok Outcast on the board, persist creatures come back every time they die. This makes Murderous Redcap an instant kill and Kitchen Finks infinite life, provided you have something that lets you sacrifice creatures at no cost (like suspended Greater Gargadon, Carrion Feeder or Blasting Station.
Melira Combo shares a characteristic with Splinter Twin Combo: many of the cards are already in the Cube. However, you need three cards in order to get Melira Combo going, whereas Splinter Twin is a two card combo.
The combo can be assembled using only creatures, some of them green, and creatures can be tutored for with Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Birthing Pod, Green Sun's Zenith, Worldly Tutor and Primal Command. Birthing Pod only gets Carrion Feeder as a sacrifice outlet though and only if you have a token you can sacrifice. Green Sun's Zenith does not get any sacrifice outlet unless you add Scarland Thrinax to the Cube.
I thought of adding Blasting Station and/or Goblin Bombardment anyway to take advantage of the many recurring creatures added to black as part of the Pox Archetype. Would it be enough to add one of these and Melira, Sylvok Outcast? Or should I add additional sacrifice outlets, especially creature based ones, and Safehold Elite as an additional persist creature?
Does anyone have experience with Melira Combo in Cube? Can anyone think of more ways to abuse the combo pieces discussed? Is it worth a try or is it doomed to fail? Discuss!
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
Note that Melira + Redcap is infinite ETB and death triggers, if anyone cares (redcap just targets itself), but unless you're playing Soul Warden, that's useless and even if, we're back to a three-card combo.
Rules question: Can you activate Gargadon's ability if there are no time counter on it? Does it still count as "suspended"?
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
You can respond to an activation with another activation, so you can get infinite activations, no problem.
edit: thanks for pointing out Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, mrbrightside!
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
There's always Puppeteer Clique...
You're welcome. You've brought up an interesting topic, maybe I'll add the combo myself as well...
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
Juniper Order Ranger should work as an additional Melira as well.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
The Great Cube Map!
My Powered Cube
Draft it here!
I forgot about that one as well, most likely because it costs 8. Thanks for pointing it out!
edit: Oh, and Natural Order is one more tutor.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Cathars' Crusade
Ghave, Guru of Spores (sort of)
Sigil Captain (only works with Redcap and Safehold Elite)
Graft cards (not infinitely repeatable)
meh. There's also the twisted version of Mikaeus plus
Soul Snuffers
Tatterkite
Pith Driller
Skinrender
Canker Abomination
Carnifex Demon
Chainbreaker
Cultbrand Cinder
Grief Tyrant
Grim Poppet
Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
Leech Bonder
the Hatchlings from Eventide
Lots of crap on that list and the enabler is a six-mana creature instead of a bear, but the list of possible combos is a lot longer.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
You're right, it doesn't. DD needs to tap to produce mana. So summoning sickness prevents the infinite mana loop.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
The thing about the "Splinter Twin" combo, is that there are a lot of ways to get it going:
Splinter Twin or Kiki-Jiki + Deceiver Exarch, Zealous Conscripts, Pestermite or Restoration Angel
These all set up an instant win with just two cards. And even then, it's only just good/consistent enough to be added to a cube imo, particularly because most of the cards are playable anyway (particularly Kiki-Jiki, Restoration Angel and Conscripts).
The Melira combo seems almost as hard as trying to support High Tide/Palinchron combo in a cube.
Juju Alters - Altered MTG Cards
Don't crush my dreams! I always keep a High Tide and a Palinchron close at hand in case I can think of a way to support it in Cube! There are several tutors that get High Tide, the only problem I have to solve is what to do with all the mana or that storm count. The natural answer is Stroke of Genius (over Braingeyser because of aforementioned tutors) or Brain Freeze.
I guess I like to dedicate a few slots to enable niche combos. I have some hopes for the Melira combo despite the fact that it is a three card combo because it can be assembled with all the creature tutors in green. I'm currently debating whether I want to try a minimal package (just add Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Blasting Station) or an extended package (additionally add Juniper Order Ranger, Scarland Thrinax and maybe Goblin Bombardment). Either way I have to make some cuts, so I have to wait because I want to play first with other recent changes.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Former DCI L2 Judge
My old Cube podcast on ManaDeprived, with Goodking and artbcnco: http://manadeprived.com/podcasts/mtgin3d/
You can find me on Twitter as well.
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
I know this isn't good, just found the interaction and was intrested in it as most cubes probably run three of the four listed
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Id say biomancer and Mikaeus are better in cube at being melira, then melira herself.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=484979
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is a pretty good black finisher. I like him a lot, and he would be another sensible inclusion for going down this road.
Melira herself is underwhelming though, which is the real issue here. Juniper Order Ranger isn't anywhere near good enough in G/W either.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I already have Woodfall Primus, Finks, Redcap, Puppeteer Clique, and Glen Elendra, with Gargadon and Goblin Bombardment as sac outlets. (And heck, even if it isn't infinite, I'd probably run Melira in a green deck with Primus and Finks...)
However, Muzzio's Preparations makes this combo MUCH stronger, since it is guaranteed to be in play, thus changing the three-card combo into a two-card. Does this push it over the edge?
Does anyone still run this? Opinions?
My $40 MTGO cube
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I don't run the combo, but there are so many intriguing pieces - including a few cube staples - that I am thinking about including Melira, Mikaeus and Archangel to enable it.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
CUBE TOP 10 - Help us vote for the best cards in cube
Muzzio's Preparations only enables one persist creature, but reduces the number of cards required for the combo. With Muzzio's I'd probably go for a grixis build because you have a lot of tutoring and card manipulation available in blue and black and the red is good for sac outlets (and for casting Murderous Redcap, I guess).
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."