MTG Salvation

Hello,

My Cube is a 360 themed cube using only cards from 1994 and older. This means that Legends features many contributions to the cube, including Enchant World cards such as The Abyss.

While playing with the cube over the weekend, my friend and I were playing sealed deck (6 packs each) and he was able to build a mono-black deck around The Abyss and several artifact creatures. Once the card hit the table, I had basically lost the game with a white/blue control deck. There is little enchantment removal in 1994 magic and I didn't get Disenchant in the 6 packs.

Despite the power of this card, I feel it belongs in the cube since it's very iconic and I wanted each color to have one Enchant World from Legends. But I could be wrong.

Do you all feel that this card is too powerful for '94 Magic cards? Do you use The Abyss in your cube?

-Frog

I would certainly play the abyss in a cube that only includes the first 6 Magic sets. It's a solid card. I don't include it in my cube though.

Yeah, The Abyss would be a shoe-in for your particular list. It doesn't make the cut in my 450 powered list however, there are just less finicky options.

I had the Abyss years ago, but cut it because it made games drag on too long.

I played it for coolness and the "old" feel but when I went to 360 I had to let it go, I would play it in a 1994 cube for sure, I guess you just have to play and disenchant effect they made in those first 6 sets and hope its enough

We still run it in our 450, but it's very much borderline and could be cut in one of the next updates. It's a cool card though and can be oppressive in the right deck, but it needs some work during the draft to get there. I'd say it's only for cubes drafted by at least 6 people. I guess our cube still running it is mostly the result of using 8-man Rochester, a format that makes sculpting your deck around a card easier than most other formats.

It looks sweet, too, for what it's worth.

Quote from Nof

While its powerlevel is not the same than in 1994, The Abyss is still played in 71% of MD here, hiting the "staple" status in my crowd's heart.

Really? What decks are playing this maindeck? While your group might really like this card for whatever reason, I can't see almost anyone else's playgroup having a number that high for this card.

Quote from Blimpy

Really? What decks are playing this maindeck? While your group might really like this card for whatever reason, I can't see almost anyone else's playgroup having a number that high for this card.

I don't have percentages, but the card sees a heavy amount of play here as well. It's a powerful effect and it is a card that excels in a heavy control deck, often populated with shroud-creatures, artifact creatures, man-lands, and/or planewalkers that break the "symmetry" of this card.

Crap the price of that card has pretty much doubled recently. I was thinking about getting one, but looking at the price, I'm like

Quote from Juju

Crap the price of that card has pretty much doubled recently. I was thinking about getting one, but looking at the price, I'm like

Yeah, I got mine for 50 like ~8 months ago.

Seems cool for 1994 Magic. Definitely a solid, iconic Legends card.

Quote from Darkmindtone

I don't have percentages, but the card sees a heavy amount of play here as well. It's a powerful effect and it is a card that excels in a heavy control deck, often populated with shroud-creatures, artifact creatures, man-lands, and/or planewalkers that break the "symmetry" of this card.

This is exactly the reason why I'm thinking that this card has potential.

Add things like:

• squee, goblin nabob
  
• bitterblossom
  
• gravecrawler
  
• bloodghast
  
• vengevine
  
• genesis
  
• mimic vat

or any mass token producer and you have a nice engine.

Powerfull by itself, bonkers in combination with a lot of cube staples. Sounds like the description of a card I want to play. I'll try to find room for it in my next update.

Its a powerful card, even in todays Power Creep. Worth a spot at 500+ at least. Probably is better if you have 6+ drafters, not in 1v1 or 2hg

In addition to the above, I find that it is a very strong card in Planeswalker control decks and in heavy-artifact decks (since the Abyss can't kill artifact creatures).

It also increases the value of Sphinx of Jwar Isle (a card i'm not very fond of, because it's boring), because shroud prevents targeting by the effect. Morphling too, I suppose.

But yes, it can lead to oppressive games.

I don't find it as oppressive as Moat. Killing a creature a turn is amazing against decks with low creature counts, but not so great against aggro, where Abyss usually has to deal with a swarm that can be cheaply replaced. Like Moat, there's a subsection of creatures that are unaffected by it (shroud and artifact creatures). Losing creatures to your own Abyss can be a drawback too unless you have a way to remove it, or somehow picked up lots of noncreature threats like walkers.

I consider it to be a fine card at larger sizes, but I don't think control decks need the help. I'm cutting it for more aggro support at 720.

Back in 94 one of the ways I used for dealing with it was playing Concordant Crossroads. Certainly not an ideal solution but when you don'y have a disenchant....

But I would never cut it from an older themed cube, and if I sill owned one I would play it over Braids any day.

Saw it in action tonight and it was really good. It's crazy that it doesn't cost 2BB.

With the rise of Planeswalkers, and the power creep of artifact creatures and man lands, I'm surprised more people aren't retrying The Abyss, especially those who are adding the Pox (and/or tokens) subtheme.

I've certainly been considering it. But that Pox deck is so good even without it, and I don't want to cut too hard into black's other good spells/creatures.

Quote from Phantizle

With the rise of Planeswalkers, and the power creep of artifact creatures and man lands, I'm surprised more people aren't retrying The Abyss, especially those who are adding the Pox (and/or tokens) subtheme.

If black had the planeswalker support that blue or white had we would see it more in cubes.

I think it's a pretty good card and I would run it if I owned one.

Sure it might be oppressive to an extent, but it fits in multiple decks as it can go in Tokens, black recursion (Ghast/Crawler), and even Lands.dec. Also it promotes drafting for your sideboard as much as for your main plan, so that you have answers to cards like this.

The problem the Abyss faces is that black decks that would want it aren't hurting for powerful 4 drops. In general I prefer Smokestack, Braids, or Nether Void to the Abyss, and there's only so many 4 drops you need.

It's not that it isn't good enough, it's that there are other things that are better.

Quote from JeffDerek

The problem the Abyss faces is that black decks that would want it aren't hurting for powerful 4 drops. In general I prefer Smokestack, Braids, or Nether Void to the Abyss, and there's only so many 4 drops you need.

It's not that it isn't good enough, it's that there are other things that are better.

The Abyss is more for the artifact deck imo.

Quote from JeffDerek

The problem the Abyss faces is that black decks that would want it aren't hurting for powerful 4 drops. In general I prefer Smokestack, Braids, or Nether Void to the Abyss, and there's only so many 4 drops you need.

It's not that it isn't good enough, it's that there are other things that are better.

I don't think they're even the same deck really. Braids has a much harder colour commitment and while Nether Void goes in a similar deck it preforms a different function.

Honestly, I think the card is for creatureless decks, ones that run Man Lands and Man-Rocks like Rakdos keyrune the best of the Keyrunes and one that's on colour.

When you play The Abyss you're not really going for a Stax or Pox deck, as you're targeting their creatures and part of the benefit of the card is shutting down a specific aspect of the game, not just attempting to blow up everything as a whole like Stacks or Braids.

So yea, I honestly think it's a whole different design space than Stax or Pox when it really comes to it.

Quote from bondafong

The Abyss is more for the artifact deck imo.

This was the main thing I used it for the last time I cubed it.