If your group is interested in exploring aggressive green decks, I'd say yes. Because it can be powerful and a lot of fun. But you need multiple players interested in drafting aggro. If you only ever have one aggro drafter, you likely don't need it. We constantly have players drafting aggro decks in pretty much every color combination, so we love having it around as an option. Other groups have had different results. I'd test it out and see, or at least discuss it thoroughly with your playgroup.
If your group is interested in exploring aggressive green decks, I'd say yes. Because it can be powerful and a lot of fun. But you need multiple players interested in drafting aggro. If you only ever have one aggro drafter, you likely don't need it. We constantly have players drafting aggro decks in pretty much every color combination, so we love having it around as an option. Other groups have had different results. I'd test it out and see, or at least discuss it thoroughly with your playgroup.
What pulls you into green aggro? (Honest question, not trying to be sarcastic.) Red has burn and furious speed, white and black have disruption, anthems and sometimes tokens. What makes you say, this deck will be better with green because ________.
The day they printed Kessig Prowler was one of the best days of my life, but I still feel like green lags behind the other colors in this arena. I really hope we get more aggressive one drops.
I don't think straight green aggro is a thing. But green can be a good support color. It has a handful of strong aggro cards (Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Rancor). And it bleeds well into other colors with other really desirable things (Bloodbraid, Kird Ape, Wild Nacatyl). Green has also gotten some decent aggressive 3 drop options as of late, though I still think white/red are a better base simply because of the abundance and usefulness of removal/burn. I'm not super excited about straight black aggro because it's worse at everything compared to white/red (too much self damage, weaker removal and reach options).
Speaking of which, green desperately lacks reach in low-to-the-ground style decks which for me is the main reason it's not viable by itself. Green is the ultimate midrange color unfortunately. Wizards can print all the green 2 power 1 drops they want and it won't ever fix the fundamental reach problem green aggro has.
If we only look only at monocolor cards, Rancor, Lotus Cobra, Collected Company, Sylvan Library, Vengevine, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Plow Under are among cards that would drag me into considering drafting G/X aggro. There are also plenty of 2-color key pieces. There's also a GB/X aristocrat deck in my cube that is pretty good at winning early, but it's a little bit more grindy and does feel midrange at some point (while not being classic rampy stuff).
Plow Under and Rancor are the two that most pull me into green aggro, but going outside green an early Bloodbraid Elf or Warden of the First Tree might put me there too. I love Rg and Bg aggro decks.
No one in my group but me ever wants to draft even Xg aggro, so I don't include pieces for Gx aggro. Greenish one drops that are playable in aggro include Warden of the First Tree, Dryad Militant, and Wild Nacatl. Rancor and Plow Under also help. I like playing it with red for reach, white for disruption and anthems, and very occasionally black for the disruption.
I love playing aggro, but green aggro doesn't do much for me, and does even less for others in my group.
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Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I think green aggro is very helpful to make sure aggro is a full third of your metagame. It's also so much fun.
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This is why i support it.
By adding green aggro you inherintly weaken green midrange and green ramp. The players who are in these strategies will branch more into another color and will then spread the late and midgame power out of the other colors. While individual drafts may differ, in the long run it balances things out more. In my play group at first know one was super keen on green aggro, but after a few times through it is almost always played. I found it also helps the other aggro players a bit since you dont step on each others toes as much in the draft
With the new Hexdrinker being printed my playgroup is having discussions about bringing back green aggro (and black aggro but that is not the focus of this thread). Trying to figure out how many spots in my 540 I would need to dedicate to make aggro work in green. I'm thinking 12-15? I know it's not exact but any advice would be appreciated.
I don’t even think you need that many given that there is so much overlap with other archetypes. Consider which curve-toppers you choose because cards like Verdurous Gearhulk get better when you support green aggro.
Best 1-drop creatures to add for green aggro that are likely not in your Cube currently:
Experiment One
Pest Collector
Wolfbitten Captive
Kessig Prowler
*Hexdrinker*
Also Dryad Militant in GW which many consider to be a white 2/1 but certainly adds to your green aggro density.
Best non-creature spells:
Rancor
Curse of Predation
Apart from these cards, I wouldn’t skew the green section too much. Jungle Lion sucks, and I would never run it even supporting green aggro.
I don’t even think you need that many given that there is so much overlap with other archetypes. Consider which curve-toppers you choose because cards like Verdurous Gearhulk get better when you support green aggro.
Best 1-drop creatures to add for green aggro that are likely not in your Cube currently:
Experiment One
Pest Collector
Wolfbitten Captive
Kessig Prowler
*Hexdrinker*
Also Dryad Militant in GW which many consider to be a white 2/1 but certainly adds to your green aggro density.
Best non-creature spells:
Rancor
Curse of Predation
Apart from these cards, I wouldn’t skew the green section too much. Jungle Lion sucks, and I would never run it even supporting green aggro.
Some of the best cards for green aggro are kind of aced out IMO because of the rigid structure most owners use for multicolor cards. Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Voltaic Brawler etc.
It seems very faulty to consider dross like Jungle Lion or Tattermunge Maniac just because each color has to be internally balanced rather than simply admitting that its better to balance by color pairs.
It seems faulty to ignore the benefit that including one versatile card has over including a bunch of cards to reach the same critical mass. Kird Ape is better in RG, but I can't play it in any other color combinations that green aggro is used in.
I don’t even think you need that many given that there is so much overlap with other archetypes. Consider which curve-toppers you choose because cards like Verdurous Gearhulk get better when you support green aggro.
Best 1-drop creatures to add for green aggro that are likely not in your Cube currently:
Experiment One
Pest Collector
Wolfbitten Captive
Kessig Prowler
*Hexdrinker*
Also Dryad Militant in GW which many consider to be a white 2/1 but certainly adds to your green aggro density.
Best non-creature spells:
Rancor
Curse of Predation
Apart from these cards, I wouldn’t skew the green section too much. Jungle Lion sucks, and I would never run it even supporting green aggro.
Some of the best cards for green aggro are kind of aced out IMO because of the rigid structure most owners use for multicolor cards. Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Voltaic Brawler etc.
It seems very faulty to consider dross like Jungle Lion or Tattermunge Maniac just because each color has to be internally balanced rather than simply admitting that its better to balance by color pairs.
Thanks for the reply! I'm at 540 for reference. I did add Jungle Lion and Tattermunge Maniac though both are meh. The 3 other cards listed (Loam, Kird and Brawler) I did not add. I'm way more flexible with my guild spots than most Cube owners so you think all 3 of those are worth adding at 540? I'll make the numbers work if they are worth it. I ran them years ago when I did green aggro. Here is my Cube as a point of reference:
Any other feedback that can be provided around enhancing my newly added green (and black) aggro. 540 card max power Cube and I'm flexible about color balancing.
Whatever info you provide can help others too so I'm not trying to threadjack just for my benefit.
I think many people here will disagree with this, but I am not a fan of Kird Ape, Loam Lion, and Wild Nacatl even if you support green aggro. Those cards were in my Cube for 7 years, and according to my Cubetutor draft stats they were 3 of the bottom 5 picks by a large margin over a significant sample size. I listened to an episode of Solely Singleton called "The Naya Problem," and they essentially had the same conclusion about these cards.
I wouldn't lump Nacatl into the same category as Ape/Lion. Those two are good in exactly one deck, respectively. Gruul aggro is all the better with a one mana 2/3, but if no one at the table is drafting that deck or it's a deck that just doesn't come up often in your group, Ape will be a low pick most of the time. Nacatl, however, is great in Gruul aggro OR Selesnya aggro OR Naya aggro. Having all of these as options for potential decks means Nacatl will likely be picked and played each time it's in the draft, even if the pick order for remains relatively low.
This is why Tattermunge Maniac is a better option for Gruul sections than Ape, despite Ape being a better card in Gruul decks. It's a necessary evil for aggro support. It's good in Gruul aggro, but it's also good in any R/X or G/X aggro decks.
I've been fairly impressed with Evolving Adaptive in draft - just getting to have a creature grow potentially to 4+ power for 1 CMC investment has been INSANE.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It's been a while since I supported green aggro, but I think Caldaia Guardian is an extremely slept on card due to it being an obscure SNC commander card. Since last year, it's the #2 most represented non-basic land card, second only to Chrome Mox. It hits really hard really fast, can blindside a planeswalker / steal initiative or monarch, works great with Skullclamp, and sets up Gaea's Cradle / Natural Order very well.
The new format, Phyrexian All will be one, is incredibly aggressive and my experience with a card like Evolving Adaptive is that getting to play something on turn 1 and can grow into a 3/3 or 4/4 in the mid game has been absolutely difficult for the opponent to come back from.
There are several cards I would recommend everyone to re-evaluate, regardless of power level. Green decks lack answers to combo/ planeswalkers and getting pressure early has been incredibly important in my experience. This is a bit unconventional, but I would recommend playing these green 1-drops inside any deck - ramp, lands, midrange, melira for their ability to put on pressure early (against slower decks/ combo), block aggressive creatures (against aggro) or just grown into a 3/3 (against midrange).
I would reconsider these cards:
- Ascendant Packleader - This is obviously strong in UG tempo with Force/ Cruise, but my experience is he's been fairly decent in almost any green deck. I've played him in a ramp deck/ bant-oko style decks where I was able to easily grow him to a 3/2 or 4/3.
- Teething Wurmlet - If you have 5 artifacts, you can consistent grow him to a 2/2 on turn 2, which I've found to be more or less a given in vintage cube anyways. My experience was Crucible of Worlds decks were often clunky and would get ran over by aggro. I had a game where I had him out turn 1 and grown him to a 4/4 deathtouch with Crucible/ Urza's Saga. I also had games where I've used a 1/1 to block for an early planeswalker.
- Elvish Reclaimer - Its very easy to grow him to a 3/4 as you can crop rotate for a fetch land to put another land into the graveyard while tutoring for a utility land.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
What pulls you into green aggro? (Honest question, not trying to be sarcastic.) Red has burn and furious speed, white and black have disruption, anthems and sometimes tokens. What makes you say, this deck will be better with green because ________.
The day they printed Kessig Prowler was one of the best days of my life, but I still feel like green lags behind the other colors in this arena. I really hope we get more aggressive one drops.
Speaking of which, green desperately lacks reach in low-to-the-ground style decks which for me is the main reason it's not viable by itself. Green is the ultimate midrange color unfortunately. Wizards can print all the green 2 power 1 drops they want and it won't ever fix the fundamental reach problem green aggro has.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
I love playing aggro, but green aggro doesn't do much for me, and does even less for others in my group.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
This is why i support it.
By adding green aggro you inherintly weaken green midrange and green ramp. The players who are in these strategies will branch more into another color and will then spread the late and midgame power out of the other colors. While individual drafts may differ, in the long run it balances things out more. In my play group at first know one was super keen on green aggro, but after a few times through it is almost always played. I found it also helps the other aggro players a bit since you dont step on each others toes as much in the draft
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
Best 1-drop creatures to add for green aggro that are likely not in your Cube currently:
Experiment One
Pest Collector
Wolfbitten Captive
Kessig Prowler
*Hexdrinker*
Also Dryad Militant in GW which many consider to be a white 2/1 but certainly adds to your green aggro density.
Best non-creature spells:
Rancor
Curse of Predation
Apart from these cards, I wouldn’t skew the green section too much. Jungle Lion sucks, and I would never run it even supporting green aggro.
Some of the best cards for green aggro are kind of aced out IMO because of the rigid structure most owners use for multicolor cards. Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Voltaic Brawler etc.
It seems very faulty to consider dross like Jungle Lion or Tattermunge Maniac just because each color has to be internally balanced rather than simply admitting that its better to balance by color pairs.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Thanks for the reply! I'm at 540 for reference. I did add Jungle Lion and Tattermunge Maniac though both are meh. The 3 other cards listed (Loam, Kird and Brawler) I did not add. I'm way more flexible with my guild spots than most Cube owners so you think all 3 of those are worth adding at 540? I'll make the numbers work if they are worth it. I ran them years ago when I did green aggro. Here is my Cube as a point of reference:
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/131
Any other feedback that can be provided around enhancing my newly added green (and black) aggro. 540 card max power Cube and I'm flexible about color balancing.
Whatever info you provide can help others too so I'm not trying to threadjack just for my benefit.
Thanks!
My 540 card Powered Cube last updated March 2022
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This is why Tattermunge Maniac is a better option for Gruul sections than Ape, despite Ape being a better card in Gruul decks. It's a necessary evil for aggro support. It's good in Gruul aggro, but it's also good in any R/X or G/X aggro decks.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
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- Wild Nacatl
- Elvish Reclaimer
- Evolving Adaptive
- Experimental One
- Hexdrinker
- Pelt Collector
- Ascendant Packleader
I've been fairly impressed with Evolving Adaptive in draft - just getting to have a creature grow potentially to 4+ power for 1 CMC investment has been INSANE.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Chrome Mox: 32
Caldaia Guardian: 31
City of Brass: 27
Palace Jailer: 24
Skullclamp: 24
Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes: 23
White Plume Adventurer: 22
Flooded Strand: 22
Marsh Flats: 22
Badlands: 22
Hullbreacher: 20
Godless Shrine: 20
Fable of the Mirror-Breaker: 20
Bloodstained Mire: 20
Demonic Tutor: 20
Wooded Foothills: 20
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
There are several cards I would recommend everyone to re-evaluate, regardless of power level. Green decks lack answers to combo/ planeswalkers and getting pressure early has been incredibly important in my experience. This is a bit unconventional, but I would recommend playing these green 1-drops inside any deck - ramp, lands, midrange, melira for their ability to put on pressure early (against slower decks/ combo), block aggressive creatures (against aggro) or just grown into a 3/3 (against midrange).
I would reconsider these cards:
- Ascendant Packleader - This is obviously strong in UG tempo with Force/ Cruise, but my experience is he's been fairly decent in almost any green deck. I've played him in a ramp deck/ bant-oko style decks where I was able to easily grow him to a 3/2 or 4/3.
- Teething Wurmlet - If you have 5 artifacts, you can consistent grow him to a 2/2 on turn 2, which I've found to be more or less a given in vintage cube anyways. My experience was Crucible of Worlds decks were often clunky and would get ran over by aggro. I had a game where I had him out turn 1 and grown him to a 4/4 deathtouch with Crucible/ Urza's Saga. I also had games where I've used a 1/1 to block for an early planeswalker.
- Elvish Reclaimer - Its very easy to grow him to a 3/4 as you can crop rotate for a fetch land to put another land into the graveyard while tutoring for a utility land.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i