It's a bit narrow for my liking. Thespian's Stage is kind of *****ty w/o dark depths a lot of the time, and Dark Depths is really ***** w/o Stage/Hexmage the other part of the time. Plus it is not impossible to answer the token, even if against some match ups its improbable. When it works, it's pretty sweet, but when it doesn't you have some cards that no one really wants, kind of like voltaic key/time vault except with less of a chance to lock them out when you pull the combo off.
It's a bit narrow for my liking. Thespian's Stage is kind of *****ty w/o dark depths a lot of the time, and Dark Depths is really ***** w/o Stage/Hexmage the other part of the time. Plus it is not impossible to answer the token, even if against some match ups its improbable. When it works, it's pretty sweet, but when it doesn't you have some cards that no one really wants, kind of like voltaic key/time vault except with less of a chance to lock them out when you pull the combo off.
This
Dark Depths is a Time Vault type of card. The problem is that the card doesn't do anything on its own.
Time Vault is just so damn powerful, that it deserves a inclusion in powered cube that dediate notable space to combos. And I'm just trying to figure out if Dark Depths also is. Doesn't know yet, but I'm definitly going to test it because there's enough playable enablers out there.
Time Vault is just so damn powerful, that it deserves a inclusion in powered cube that dediate notable space to combos. And I'm just trying to figure out if Dark Depths also is. Doesn't know yet, but I'm definitly going to test it because there's enough playable enablers out there.
Be sure to report back your findings, I don't have very much experience with it in cube and would like to hear your conclusions.
We've been playing the combo for almost a year now (with Primetime, Rotation, Map, Gifts, Loam, Crucible, KotR, Tolaria Weat, and a custom that searches land for support). It isn't super strong, but the fact that the pieces are weak independently makes it easier to get both in the same deck (without spending early picks), and we've found the gameplay pretty fun so far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Time Vault is just so damn powerful, that it deserves a inclusion in powered cube that dediate notable space to combos. And I'm just trying to figure out if Dark Depths also is. Doesn't know yet, but I'm definitly going to test it because there's enough playable enablers out there.
Time vault is absurdly powerful, and P1P1 is equal to power if the cube supports it properly.
DD/stage is very good in the right deck, but is definitely not on time vault's level.
The biggest differences between time vault and dark depths are the greater number of playable cube cards that interact with it.
Time vault = win the game if they can't interact with your artifact at instant speed. (very rare)
combos with: ral zarek, tezzeret, voltaic key, kiora's follower.
Dark depths = win if they can't interact with your 20/20. Bounce, white instant speed exile, control magic, edicts, terminus, flying token chump blocks, having > 20 life,.
combos with: thespian stage, vampire hexmage
My initial evaluation of time vault was that it would be too narrow, but in testing, found it was assembled to almost broken effect 90%+ drafts it was opened early.
I think DD/stage is a more balanced and interesting interaction than timevault/key, but I'm concerned only comboing with 2 cards is too big a gap to overcome.
I might test it for funsies, because I have been surprsied with the high frequency of DD/stage coming together in the legacy cube.
I did some testing and I wanted to say I think with the Dark Depths combo, we gone in the wrong direction.
I would argue the best enablers is not the traditional Vampire Hexmage - Its double black and 20/20 is too vulnerable has been very problematic.
But are in this order:
- Mirage Mirror
- Thespian Stage (Best if you have Knight/ Land Tutors)
- Solemnity (Also combo with Urza Saga to lock it at 2 to make constructs every turn)
- Blood Sun (Depths ETB without counters and white can easily remove/ flicker it)
The problem I felt we been thinking of the Dark Depths combo too much in the traditional Lands/ Turbo Depths shell (or even Black based combo shell) of Legacy and I would argue neither of these two shells are sufficient in cube given that we need redundant copies.
and I realized white might be the best support color for lands not because it provides any cards to enabler play extra lands/ recursion etc. but its play style of control (board wipes, removal, moat etc), some landfall matters, recursion - Sun Titan/ Sevinne's Reclamation, good finishers, Flicker - Flickerwisp, Kor Skyfisher etc. provide some incidental landfall.
Its very easy to setup dark depth loops with Mirror/ Solemnity.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
The most success I had with Dark Depths in Cube so far was in Maverick like shells, where silver bullets are alway at the ready with Green Sun's Zenith or Survival of the Fittest, card advantage comes in over Collected Company or Sevinne's Reclamation and there is a surprise Persist Combo kill in addition to the ability to produce a 20/20.
The most success I had with Dark Depths in Cube so far was in Maverick like shells, where silver bullets are alway at the ready with Green Sun's Zenith or Survival of the Fittest, card advantage comes in over Collected Company or Sevinne's Reclamation and there is a surprise Persist Combo kill in addition to the ability to produce a 20/20.
By far my favpurite deck in Cube!
I feel the same. I tried Depths in the two most common shells - Black-Green Turbo Depths/ Green-Red Lands and both decks failed to play sufficiently well in the meta. It also plays incredibly well with the existing Green-White Creature tutor/ Control package.
I'm surprised to say GW is the best shell for a lands archetype
The other funny reason why it works so well in GW is you drafted 40-50% of the unconditional white removal making it far less likely your opponent has a relevant answer.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
It's not a necro, it's literally the way the Card and Archetype Discussion forum was designed.
Before posting a thread, use the search feature to make sure that there hasn’t already been one. If you find a duplicate thread, report it and a moderator will merge them.
This would have been a problem in the other forums on MTG Salvation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I think it’s harder to support dark depths now, but this picked up a pretty cool new interaction in a lands package with Urza’s Saga. Hard to justify on a raw power basis but if you’re looking for sub themes it’s part of a fun one still.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
This
Dark Depths is a Time Vault type of card. The problem is that the card doesn't do anything on its own.
Twitter
Youtube Channel
Cube Podcast
Draft my Cube!
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Be sure to report back your findings, I don't have very much experience with it in cube and would like to hear your conclusions.
Twitter
Youtube Channel
Cube Podcast
Draft my Cube!
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Time vault is absurdly powerful, and P1P1 is equal to power if the cube supports it properly.
DD/stage is very good in the right deck, but is definitely not on time vault's level.
The biggest differences between time vault and dark depths are the greater number of playable cube cards that interact with it.
Time vault = win the game if they can't interact with your artifact at instant speed. (very rare)
combos with: ral zarek, tezzeret, voltaic key, kiora's follower.
Dark depths = win if they can't interact with your 20/20. Bounce, white instant speed exile, control magic, edicts, terminus, flying token chump blocks, having > 20 life,.
combos with: thespian stage, vampire hexmage
My initial evaluation of time vault was that it would be too narrow, but in testing, found it was assembled to almost broken effect 90%+ drafts it was opened early.
I think DD/stage is a more balanced and interesting interaction than timevault/key, but I'm concerned only comboing with 2 cards is too big a gap to overcome.
I might test it for funsies, because I have been surprsied with the high frequency of DD/stage coming together in the legacy cube.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
I would argue the best enablers is not the traditional Vampire Hexmage - Its double black and 20/20 is too vulnerable has been very problematic.
But are in this order:
- Mirage Mirror
- Thespian Stage (Best if you have Knight/ Land Tutors)
- Solemnity (Also combo with Urza Saga to lock it at 2 to make constructs every turn)
- Blood Sun (Depths ETB without counters and white can easily remove/ flicker it)
The problem I felt we been thinking of the Dark Depths combo too much in the traditional Lands/ Turbo Depths shell (or even Black based combo shell) of Legacy and I would argue neither of these two shells are sufficient in cube given that we need redundant copies.
I started looking at the GW Depths in Legacy - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3391605
I started experimenting with a GW lands package with cards like:
- Felidar Retreat
- Solemnity
- Elvish Reclaimer
- Knight of the Reliquary
and I realized white might be the best support color for lands not because it provides any cards to enabler play extra lands/ recursion etc. but its play style of control (board wipes, removal, moat etc), some landfall matters, recursion - Sun Titan/ Sevinne's Reclamation, good finishers, Flicker - Flickerwisp, Kor Skyfisher etc. provide some incidental landfall.
Its very easy to setup dark depth loops with Mirror/ Solemnity.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Don’t reply to threads not active for over 6 years.Don't backseat mod, thread necro-ing is not against the rules of the Cube Forum.
- steve_man
By far my favpurite deck in Cube!
Apologies.
Whats the policy with Necro thread on the cube forum?
I feel the same. I tried Depths in the two most common shells - Black-Green Turbo Depths/ Green-Red Lands and both decks failed to play sufficiently well in the meta. It also plays incredibly well with the existing Green-White Creature tutor/ Control package.
I'm surprised to say GW is the best shell for a lands archetype
The other funny reason why it works so well in GW is you drafted 40-50% of the unconditional white removal making it far less likely your opponent has a relevant answer.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This is the very first rule from the Card and Archetype Discussion Rules.
SonofaBith75 is incorrect and rude, and he has been reported for backseat modding. Keep up the good discussion, Breathe1234
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
- No backseat modding.
- Thread necro-ing is not against the rules of the Cube Forum. See rule #1 of the Card and Archetype Discussion Rules.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
This would have been a problem in the other forums on MTG Salvation.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).