I've been looking all over for a thread discussing this Legacy staple, but couldn't find one that specifically talks about it
I currently do not have it in my Cube, but after having found a couple of boxes containing my long lost Odyssey & Onslaught block cards, I wondered why I was not playing it
Of course, the major drawback of playing the Therapy is that in a Limited Singleton format, having to name a card without first looking at your opponent's hand sucks big time. Having said that, the second drawback is that there is a shortage of selective discard in my Cube. Cabal Therapy is an amazing follow up to a Duress/Thoughtseize/Tidehollow Sculler/Mesmeric Fiend, but that is all I have
The major reason I am considering it is because it allows you a 2nd chance if you whiff the first time around, and is a sweet sac outlet for some creatures that want to hit the yard
Not enough value on the front end. Nobody's playing enough Telepathy/Urza's Glasses effects to make this reliable enough.
I think its pretty close in the new style black Cubes. But having to cast it blind first isn't so great. We thought it might be needed to help get Academy Rector reliably in the bin but its definitely not with all the other Pox type effects you have.
So I give it a 'No' unless we get a couple more Gravecrawler level undead..which me might in the short term and probably will in the longer term.
It's good with Duress variants and bounce spells, but it was too narrow and unreliable for even my classic cube.
Should I take from the phrasing here that you actually tested it and it didn't work? I've always assumed it wouldn't be good enough but I like hearing actual testing data.
Should I take from the phrasing here that you actually tested it and it didn't work? I've always assumed it wouldn't be good enough but I like hearing actual testing data.
We tested it a little. If you smartly anticipated the worst thing that could be coming you get a little edge on the first cast. But the first cast is HORRIBLE and its not like you actively *want* to sacrifice a guy very often (you only have 1 Gravecrawler and 1 Bloodghast). Its great with Academy Rector obviously but we never pulled that off since she rarely makes such a deck due to lack of targets.
That was the only thing that prompted us to consider it. In the end, we figured Innocent Blood was a better enabler if necessary plus Pox, Smallpox, Death Cloud and even some cards we didn't use like the Fleshbag Marauder.
Should I take from the phrasing here that you actually tested it and it didn't work? I've always assumed it wouldn't be good enough but I like hearing actual testing data.
Only in my classic cube. I never tried it in my current traditional cube.
I tried Cabal Therapy in my cube for a while as it is a powerful and iconic card.
It's a lot worse than constructed as it is much harder to guess what your opponent is playing, and you can't get lucky and hit multiple identical cards. It was occasionally effective on the same turn as a duress effect or if you somehow knew what your opponent was playing (e.g. Future Sight) but it was mostly bad. Similarly you could sometimes sacrifice an echo creature for the flashback but mostly you wanted your creatures to stay in play.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Cabal Therapy is really only a good card when there are established decks in a metagame, and when you are intimately familiar with the decks that are getting played, neither of which, obviously, are true in cube. In Legacy, for example, when someone opens with a turn 1 Misty Rainforest into Tropical Island, you can name Tarmogoyf or Brainstorm or something and be fairly confident that you'll hit one, because those are both common staples in those colors and are usually played as 4-ofs. Being reasonably likely to hit something both times is what makes Therapy playable. In cube, though, you probably don't know all of what your opponents drafted, even if you have a good idea of what type of deck your opponent is playing. You'll be playing it essentially blind the first time unless you're lucky enough to have not only snagged other targeted discard first, but also played it before the Therapy, and playing it blind is a really good way to make sure you've wasted a card.
Cabal Therapy is doing very well in the Combo Cube, so I decided to give it a run in my main list. I have been very impressed with it. I like the random sacrifice interactions it has, and there are enough times that your opponent reveals information that it should rarely miss on a card. It's definitely one that requires significant play to realize its potential rather than theorizing as I thought it would be garbage but have been convinced otherwise.
I've always been happy with this card. It helps as a self-discard outlet at worst and with proper setup it can nab a card. True, you'll never grab multiple cards in one shot (singleton format and all), but the guessing game is part of the excitement and having information is powerful tool for planning the next turns. I'm with Kojiro on this one.
Cabal Therapy is doing very well in the Combo Cube, so I decided to give it a run in my main list. I have been very impressed with it. I like the random sacrifice interactions it has, and there are enough times that your opponent reveals information that it should rarely miss on a card. It's definitely one that requires significant play to realize its potential rather than theorizing as I thought it would be garbage but have been convinced otherwise.
If you're good enough to rarely miss with it then its awesome. One guy I play with has a sixth sense for it but I always guess their home run card and whiff a lot. Even though its awesome when you do nail it.
I think its pretty close in the new style black Cubes. But having to cast it blind first isn't so great. We thought it might be needed to help get Academy Rector reliably in the bin but its definitely not with all the other Pox type effects you have.
So I give it a 'No' unless we get a couple more Gravecrawler level undead..which me might in the short term and probably will in the longer term.
This. It's well on my radar, as my black has a lower curve than anything other colour I play. More disruptive tools to kill in-hand sweepers and blockers are always welcome. That's the main advantage of aggressive black shells compared to white and red, and CT adds to that. I think more creatures that want to die and more playable Coercion-style discard needs to see print first though.
I've been thinking about Cabal Therapy for 3 reasons:
1. Reanimator Decks:
Outside of Faithless Looting/ Entomb, there are very few ways to get a fatty into to the bin turn 1. Cabal Therapy could be used to target the player themselves, then turn 2 Entomb. This feels like a pretty good play.
2. I've been toying with my spells matter section and I've been thinking about how Cabal Therapy might be pretty good with the discard outlets in blue/ Red such as Magmatic Channeler/ Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, especially if the deck already plays Gitaxian Probe + hand disruption and these decks play the two pyromancers + 4-5 Goblin Rabblemaster Variants.
3. Sacrifice Decks are doing fairly well. This seems like a pretty good enabler for those decks.
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I didn't like it when I tested it a couple years ago. In general, youll be naming blind and missing too much.
The occasional times it was great, didnt make up for all the times it cost you a card or it sat a sideboard without a home.
Yes you can set up an early turn reanimation in reanimator decks, but it pales in comparison in function to Faithless looting/Entomb, the card selection is such a big deal.
It's basically a worse putrid imp at this function.
I didn't give it tooo many reps, but enough where I felt confident to bench it.
I've been looking all over for a thread discussing this Legacy staple, but couldn't find one that specifically talks about it
I currently do not have it in my Cube, but after having found a couple of boxes containing my long lost Odyssey & Onslaught block cards, I wondered why I was not playing it
Of course, the major drawback of playing the Therapy is that in a Limited Singleton format, having to name a card without first looking at your opponent's hand sucks big time. Having said that, the second drawback is that there is a shortage of selective discard in my Cube. Cabal Therapy is an amazing follow up to a Duress/Thoughtseize/Tidehollow Sculler/Mesmeric Fiend, but that is all I have
The major reason I am considering it is because it allows you a 2nd chance if you whiff the first time around, and is a sweet sac outlet for some creatures that want to hit the yard
Thoughts?
It's good with Duress variants and bounce spells, but it was too narrow and unreliable for even my classic cube.
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I think its pretty close in the new style black Cubes. But having to cast it blind first isn't so great. We thought it might be needed to help get Academy Rector reliably in the bin but its definitely not with all the other Pox type effects you have.
So I give it a 'No' unless we get a couple more Gravecrawler level undead..which me might in the short term and probably will in the longer term.
Should I take from the phrasing here that you actually tested it and it didn't work? I've always assumed it wouldn't be good enough but I like hearing actual testing data.
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We tested it a little. If you smartly anticipated the worst thing that could be coming you get a little edge on the first cast. But the first cast is HORRIBLE and its not like you actively *want* to sacrifice a guy very often (you only have 1 Gravecrawler and 1 Bloodghast). Its great with Academy Rector obviously but we never pulled that off since she rarely makes such a deck due to lack of targets.
That was the only thing that prompted us to consider it. In the end, we figured Innocent Blood was a better enabler if necessary plus Pox, Smallpox, Death Cloud and even some cards we didn't use like the Fleshbag Marauder.
Only in my classic cube. I never tried it in my current traditional cube.
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My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
It's a lot worse than constructed as it is much harder to guess what your opponent is playing, and you can't get lucky and hit multiple identical cards. It was occasionally effective on the same turn as a duress effect or if you somehow knew what your opponent was playing (e.g. Future Sight) but it was mostly bad. Similarly you could sometimes sacrifice an echo creature for the flashback but mostly you wanted your creatures to stay in play.
A good card, but not for cube.
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If you're good enough to rarely miss with it then its awesome. One guy I play with has a sixth sense for it but I always guess their home run card and whiff a lot. Even though its awesome when you do nail it.
This. It's well on my radar, as my black has a lower curve than anything other colour I play. More disruptive tools to kill in-hand sweepers and blockers are always welcome. That's the main advantage of aggressive black shells compared to white and red, and CT adds to that. I think more creatures that want to die and more playable Coercion-style discard needs to see print first though.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
How are people liking Cabal Therapy?
I've been thinking about Cabal Therapy for 3 reasons:
1. Reanimator Decks:
Outside of Faithless Looting/ Entomb, there are very few ways to get a fatty into to the bin turn 1. Cabal Therapy could be used to target the player themselves, then turn 2 Entomb. This feels like a pretty good play.
2. I've been toying with my spells matter section and I've been thinking about how Cabal Therapy might be pretty good with the discard outlets in blue/ Red such as Magmatic Channeler/ Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, especially if the deck already plays Gitaxian Probe + hand disruption and these decks play the two pyromancers + 4-5 Goblin Rabblemaster Variants.
3. Sacrifice Decks are doing fairly well. This seems like a pretty good enabler for those decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
The occasional times it was great, didnt make up for all the times it cost you a card or it sat a sideboard without a home.
Yes you can set up an early turn reanimation in reanimator decks, but it pales in comparison in function to Faithless looting/Entomb, the card selection is such a big deal.
It's basically a worse putrid imp at this function.
I didn't give it tooo many reps, but enough where I felt confident to bench it.
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