So this card has been on my radar for quite some time, but Iceage4life recently said he cut it because he thought it was weak. Which got me thinking if the sorcery speed is a relevant drawback in cube.
What do you guys think? Is it an auto include if you have one and run portal, or is it's inclusion actually up for debate?
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99% of people cant run this due to cost concern. I would say that it is worthy of a spot if you have a slot due to pimpness factor. Its tempo loss and life loss so i dont think its an autoinclude at all and you dont need 2 vampiric tutors, especially when one is strictly worse at really small sizes.
I always assumed it was an auto include and the only reason people didn't play it was due to price factors, but I'm definitely interested in hearing arguments why it shouldn't be included, since my wallet would love me
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This isn't just tempo disadvantage, it's card disadvantage. Vampiric Tutor is already not that great in my opinion (fine and playable, but nothing special). And that's because you are usually getting the card almost immediately. Making this sorcery speed is so much worse, and it makes it more vulnerable to being disrupted.
I thought imperial tutor was good in vintage decks because they could draw the card the same turn with recall, etc and advance a game plan. Being a sorcery is a big limitation. I think vamp tutor is more flexible as an instant since it can be played reactively. I suppose the question is, how do you foresee your tutors being used? Grim tutor is also an option, tho 3 mana and 3 life led me to cut it.
I'll run it at 450. At 360, I feel like it's just too many tutors. I like some variables in effects sometimes. The same reason I run only Brainstorm of the three U draw spell in my cube.
If you support combo it's great, but otherwise it's not really needed in anything 450 and under. It's not very interesting and it felt like too many tutors at that level for us.
We recently added it and for me it has proven itself to be a staple. Tutors make decks a lot surer to find the key cards they need. It helps any comboish deck, reanimator or decks based around one card (Upheaval, Tinker, Wildfire,...).
Powerwise it is an autoinclude for me. Even at 360. Tutors are just so good if cheaply costed.
I run proxied portal cards and don't run this, however I do run Booster Tutor so I guess my overall number of "tutors" is the same. I'd be open to running Imperial Seal but my group freaking loves booster tutor so I don't think its going to happen anytime soon.
360 staple, IMO. Tutors are extremely versatile and powerful in singleton formats. The ability to search for your best card from your deck in a given situation is worth the card disadvantage.
Imperial Seal is only an incredibly small fraction worse than Vampiric Tutor, and that card is great.
I'd disagree, with it being only slightly worse than Vamp Tutor. The fact that it is sorcery speed gives your opponent a full turn to plan around it, whereas Vamp Tutor can be used to fetch a combo piece after they tap out in order to avoid counter magic.
Also, it gives your opponent a full turn to do something before your answer comes up a lot of the time. I know I've Vamp Tutored on my upkeep a few times for a critical Wrath, Disenchant, or whatever to keep them from untapping with a Siege Gang or something worse. Having to wait a full turn is brutal when you need the answer then.
It's still a good card, Vamp Tutor is just a lot better.
If you a) run Portal and b) can afford the ludicrous asking price, it's one hell of a tutor. I'd play it alongside Demonic and Vampiric at most sizes.
It's a great card. I even picked up a second copy when I first built my combo cube, but it sits gathering dust in the on deck binder. There are just more appropriate cards to run at the moment.
Vampiric Tutor also usually gives you the card you need a turn after you draw it if you have no draw spell in hand, as with all the Mirage tutors.
Well, technically not, since you can vampiric at the end of your turn for an answer to their play that turn and then draw it (or your upkeep). While imperial seal can't do that because you won't draw it until your next turn (where the extra turn could be all the opponents need to kill you).
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Hence the "usually". The sorcery speed only matters if you want to keep it in hand for a while waiting for them to play a threat (which could happen on the following turn as you described). If the threat is already on the board, both are equal. The difference can obviously be relevant, but not enough to simply decide not to run Imperial Tutor IMO.
Honestly, I keep Vampiric in hand most of the time. The reason for this is that if I'm tutoring, I'd rather get a combo piece, which is decided based on what combo piece I already have in hand, or I get an answer, which is dependent on their play. Very rarely is it a card I use to fetch some general good card that I just want to run out there, as I usually have good cards to play regardless of that one specific card.
If the threat is on the board they aren't equal as Vampiric lets your draw that answer on your turn by either being cast on their turn or on your upkeep, and generally a threat does hit the board and then you're required to answer it. Killing a Titan or Hero of Bladehold before a single attack phase is HUGE. The same is true for answering something like Disk, which gives you that window of one turn before being crippled by it. How about after they resolve a large threat with Shroud or Hexproof and your only out is an Edict, showing them that edict and having to wait a turn lets them out play you easily. So the situation comes up far more often than you'd think.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I think this is a top 5 black card, it gets anything, and its even better if your cube supports a few combos, I would never be upset to see this left in a pack.
Imperial Seal
So this card has been on my radar for quite some time, but Iceage4life recently said he cut it because he thought it was weak. Which got me thinking if the sorcery speed is a relevant drawback in cube.
What do you guys think? Is it an auto include if you have one and run portal, or is it's inclusion actually up for debate?
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Powerwise it is an autoinclude for me. Even at 360. Tutors are just so good if cheaply costed.
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I'd disagree, with it being only slightly worse than Vamp Tutor. The fact that it is sorcery speed gives your opponent a full turn to plan around it, whereas Vamp Tutor can be used to fetch a combo piece after they tap out in order to avoid counter magic.
Also, it gives your opponent a full turn to do something before your answer comes up a lot of the time. I know I've Vamp Tutored on my upkeep a few times for a critical Wrath, Disenchant, or whatever to keep them from untapping with a Siege Gang or something worse. Having to wait a full turn is brutal when you need the answer then.
It's still a good card, Vamp Tutor is just a lot better.
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Well, technically not, since you can vampiric at the end of your turn for an answer to their play that turn and then draw it (or your upkeep). While imperial seal can't do that because you won't draw it until your next turn (where the extra turn could be all the opponents need to kill you).
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Honestly, I keep Vampiric in hand most of the time. The reason for this is that if I'm tutoring, I'd rather get a combo piece, which is decided based on what combo piece I already have in hand, or I get an answer, which is dependent on their play. Very rarely is it a card I use to fetch some general good card that I just want to run out there, as I usually have good cards to play regardless of that one specific card.
If the threat is on the board they aren't equal as Vampiric lets your draw that answer on your turn by either being cast on their turn or on your upkeep, and generally a threat does hit the board and then you're required to answer it. Killing a Titan or Hero of Bladehold before a single attack phase is HUGE. The same is true for answering something like Disk, which gives you that window of one turn before being crippled by it. How about after they resolve a large threat with Shroud or Hexproof and your only out is an Edict, showing them that edict and having to wait a turn lets them out play you easily. So the situation comes up far more often than you'd think.
i would feel comfortable first picking vampiric tutor. i can't imagine why it would play poorly for anyone.
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