I sort of forgot about Gavony Township - would anyone else rank that in their top 10? I've played it a lot in Standard and it can really take over games - especially if you're running a decent amount of mana dorks. And obviously it's awesome with token makers. Thoughts?
Evaluating utility lands, especially against gold cards, is extremely difficult. They really function exactly opposite of one another. A card like Mirari's Wake has amazing upside and giant downside, while Township at worst is a colorless land and at best is a costly, slow anthem.
Which is better? It probably depends on what you want out of your gold section.
Glare was definitely in my top 10 when I started cubing, but there have been a lot of better WG cards printed since then.
Although Sigarda's ability is strong I wouldn't say she's as important to the guild. Both Green and White have strong finishers. Glare adds something different, making the dorks useful mid to late game.
As for Mirari's Wake, Wouldn't recommend unless you have a super ramp package. Still was nice in G/W (mostly midrange, though have used in cheaper deck) aggro, where I would just keep ahead board position and slow roll hand, and after a wrath or anything of the like, would burst out my hand on my turn using mirari's wake.
Would you guys agree that most of GW's power curve, while high, is fairly flat? What I mean is... to me, most of the GW cards seem at least close in power level and it's more of a "what do I want this section to do" or "what are green or white missing that I could add here?" rather than "which card is most powerful?"
So it's almost not a question of ranking, but of which effects you think your cube needs. Thoughts on that?
As for Mirari's Wake, Wouldn't recommend unless you have a super ramp package. Still was nice in G/W (mostly midrange, though have used in cheaper deck) aggro, where I would just keep ahead board position and slow roll hand, and after a wrath or anything of the like, would burst out my hand on my turn using mirari's wake.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Opposition is FAR better. Not only is it only one color, but tapping down lands is its primary function. Once you take away the ability to control their resources, you kill a big part of what makes the card good.
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I don't really understand the dislike of sigarda around here. I think that card is absolutely insane.
It doesn't do what I want my GW 5-drops to be doing, the competition is steep in Selesnya, and the 5-drops in the individual colors both play to the decks' strengths better and are good enough (and numerous enough) to not need a gold 5-drop in those colors.
It's not about the disliking of Sigarda. She's a monster of a creature. It's about what's needed for the cube, and she's not. If she were in a color combination that either needed 5-drops like that, needed better gold cards or didn't have enough 5-drops, she'd be a staple. But in her case, none of those three things apply. The color combination doesn't play control, there are plenty of great 5-drops to choose from (that all do something very specific that my Selesnya decks are looking for) and WG is incredibly deep and filled with more important cards.
I'd really like to have Selesnya as a the creature token guild, with Glare of Subdual as a thing to do with all the tokens. Sadly wtwlf is right: not being able to tap lands is a big problem compared to Opposition. If I ran house rules, I'd add lands to Glare's list of targets and put it in my cube.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
I'd really like to have Selesnya as a the creature token guild, with Glare of Subdual as a thing to do with all the tokens. Sadly wtwlf is right: not being able to tap lands is a big problem compared to Opposition. If I ran house rules, I'd add lands to Glare's list of targets and put it in my cube.
Agreed -- not being able to tap lands is a huge disadvantage. However, they aren't run in the same decks (at least most of the time) and Opposition is double blue. Selesnya's ability to pump out dorks en masse is what makes Glare easier to take advantage of and most decks with blue don't run an abundance of creatures. It's a very unique ability that Selesnya doesn't normally have access to and let's every dork you have affect the board at the later stages of a game.
If it could tap lands too I'd make room in my 360 to squeeze it in :).
What do people's green and white cube decks usually look like?
Typically they are aggressive, but a lot of the time they turn into midrange or tri-colored decks. Cards like Wolfir Silverheart, Silverblade Paladin, and a plethora of one and two drops are the foundation of a lot of the decks.
I think it's also worth mentioning that if a player can't get some of the more aggressive GW cards, they typically use the base GW as a segue into some powerful Naya/Junk/Bant decks to get more reach.
What do people's green and white cube decks usually look like?
Usually a midrange deck with creature tutors and value creatures, or it stems into a token/anthem type of deck. It also can play aggro. WG Ramp is also a decent strategy.
No. If you don't play WG aggro, you don't need WG aggro cards.
There can still be WG aggro though - green is a good secondary color for aggressive decks. Just not AS aggressive, so probably not aggressive enough for Loam Lion.
Well, if you play decks that want Lion, it's a card you can keep. If you don't, you should cut it. I'm confused by your question. Only you know if your playgroup wants to run WG aggro decks. Since you don't run any green aggro beaters, I'm guessing they won't miss the Lion too much. How good can it be in a cube that doesn't have any green aggro 1-drops?
Well, if you play decks that want Lion, it's a card you can keep. If you don't, you should cut it. I'm confused by your question. Only you know if your playgroup wants to run WG aggro decks. Since you don't run any green aggro beaters, I'm guessing they won't miss the Lion too much. How good can it be in a cube that doesn't have any green aggro 1-drops?
I guess it wasn't another question, more thinking out loud and mostly agreeing with you I'm probably taking it out.
What do you consider to be the Top 4 GW cards? I'm replacing cards in my cube. I will have in my Selesnya Section
1. Kitchen Finks
2. Qasali Pridemage
3. Gavony Township
4. Armada Wurm
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Evaluating utility lands, especially against gold cards, is extremely difficult. They really function exactly opposite of one another. A card like Mirari's Wake has amazing upside and giant downside, while Township at worst is a colorless land and at best is a costly, slow anthem.
Which is better? It probably depends on what you want out of your gold section.
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Although Sigarda's ability is strong I wouldn't say she's as important to the guild. Both Green and White have strong finishers. Glare adds something different, making the dorks useful mid to late game.
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As for Mirari's Wake, Wouldn't recommend unless you have a super ramp package. Still was nice in G/W (mostly midrange, though have used in cheaper deck) aggro, where I would just keep ahead board position and slow roll hand, and after a wrath or anything of the like, would burst out my hand on my turn using mirari's wake.
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So it's almost not a question of ranking, but of which effects you think your cube needs. Thoughts on that?
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Do you run Opposition in your cube?
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Of course :D. Too bad it's not a white or green card though :(. Really the best colors for that effect.
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Opposition is FAR better. Not only is it only one color, but tapping down lands is its primary function. Once you take away the ability to control their resources, you kill a big part of what makes the card good.
It doesn't do what I want my GW 5-drops to be doing, the competition is steep in Selesnya, and the 5-drops in the individual colors both play to the decks' strengths better and are good enough (and numerous enough) to not need a gold 5-drop in those colors.
It's not about the disliking of Sigarda. She's a monster of a creature. It's about what's needed for the cube, and she's not. If she were in a color combination that either needed 5-drops like that, needed better gold cards or didn't have enough 5-drops, she'd be a staple. But in her case, none of those three things apply. The color combination doesn't play control, there are plenty of great 5-drops to choose from (that all do something very specific that my Selesnya decks are looking for) and WG is incredibly deep and filled with more important cards.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
Agreed -- not being able to tap lands is a huge disadvantage. However, they aren't run in the same decks (at least most of the time) and Opposition is double blue. Selesnya's ability to pump out dorks en masse is what makes Glare easier to take advantage of and most decks with blue don't run an abundance of creatures. It's a very unique ability that Selesnya doesn't normally have access to and let's every dork you have affect the board at the later stages of a game.
If it could tap lands too I'd make room in my 360 to squeeze it in :).
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Typically they are aggressive, but a lot of the time they turn into midrange or tri-colored decks. Cards like Wolfir Silverheart, Silverblade Paladin, and a plethora of one and two drops are the foundation of a lot of the decks.
I think it's also worth mentioning that if a player can't get some of the more aggressive GW cards, they typically use the base GW as a segue into some powerful Naya/Junk/Bant decks to get more reach.
I run
Usually a midrange deck with creature tutors and value creatures, or it stems into a token/anthem type of deck. It also can play aggro. WG Ramp is also a decent strategy.
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Hahahah sounds like you are talking about just about any white deck except WW.
I'd love to hear more about these crucible decks those sound like fun!
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There can still be WG aggro though - green is a good secondary color for aggressive decks. Just not AS aggressive, so probably not aggressive enough for Loam Lion.
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I guess it wasn't another question, more thinking out loud and mostly agreeing with you
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1. Kitchen Finks
2. Qasali Pridemage
3. Gavony Township
4. Armada Wurm