I always thought Shrine was terrible until I played it. It kills a lot of the big butted lifelinkers and sending it to the face is usually insane. It's red's best two drop.
It seems as much of a red card as Crystal Shard is a blue card. Maybe I need to move the shard out of blue.
I would count Shrine as red and Shard as blue. Not only are they intrinsically stronger in their respective colors, but they wouldn't get played in off color decks.
Like other cards that MTGS has dogged in the past but have since caught onto (Elesh Norn, Consecrated Sphinx, Prime Time) I'm hoping that it catches on more here.
I disagree, most people on here knew these were all good from the start. Because they're all mana-expensive cards, it's a matter of juggling finisher slots rather than 'catching on'. I don't think they were sleepers. I still don't like Primeval Titan in cube, however, although I'd run the other two again if I went back up to 450.
Shrine could be worth a go, and I'm encouraged by this thread. It could be a genuine sleeper, and some cards just look bad on paper until you play them (Arcane Denial much?).
I disagree, most people on here knew these were all good from the start. Because they're all mana-expensive cards, it's a matter of juggling finisher slots rather than 'catching on'. I don't think they were sleepers. I still don't like Primeval Titan in cube, however, although I'd run the other two again if I went back up to 450.
Shrine could be worth a go, and I'm encouraged by this thread. It could be a genuine sleeper, and some cards just look bad on paper until you play them (Arcane Denial much?).
Shrine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arcane Denial, so not an apt comparison. Also, people definitely did not consider Elesh Norn that great from the jump; it took some people playing it and sharing their experiences for others to take the plunge.
Shrine is much worse than Arcane Denial, but I don't understand why they would be compared in the first place.
Wasn't it obvious in my post? I was saying Shrine looked bad to me (and apparently everyone else), but everyone says it plays very well. I think Arcane Denial also looks bad on paper, but plays great. That's what I was saying if you catch my drift.
Wasn't it obvious in my post? I was saying Shrine looked bad to me (and apparently everyone else), but everyone says it plays very well. I think Arcane Denial also looks bad on paper, but plays great. That's what I was saying if you catch my drift.
I caught your drift, I was just messing around. Some cards play a lot better than they look, and all that.
This thread makes me want to try the shrine. I'll see what I can do with my next update.
This. I'll put one on the next singles order and try and figure out where it belongs in my arcane sorting system. I think I'll test it in a red slot unless someone has a convincing argument otherwise?
This. I'll put one on the next singles order and try and figure out where it belongs in my arcane sorting system. I think I'll test it in a red slot unless someone has a convincing argument otherwise?
I certainly wouldn't run it in a deck without red spells, I'll be adding it in my cube next update.
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My deck was pretty terrible tonight but Shrine totally won me a game. It ticked up to 7 counters after I combined it with Chain Lightning & Char to knock my opponent from 14 life to zero. As I said, my deck was pretty bad but Shrine helped to do a big enough chunk for me to win a game with no creatures on board and running low on life.
I added it and it was fine during the last draft. It was the only card in my RB aggro deck that could deal with a turn three Paladin en-Vec and it shot a player for 10 once. I never cast it when I had other cards to play for the mana and it still did a decent amount of damage every time.
The Sulfuric Vortex analogy mentioned earlier makes me reconsider this card. So I am going to spell out the pros and cons:
Pros vs. Sulfuric Vortex
non red source of damage
can kill creatures
does not damage you
Cons vs. Sulfuric Vortex
may not always result to 2 damage per turn
vulnerable to artifact removal (all the effect is lost)
damage can be prevented (in cube, almost never happens anyway)
effectively 5 mana, though split over 2 turns
So I am definitely trying this..... anything that gives Red variety of play I will at least test...
(I just love this forum! So many ideas going sround)
damage can be prevented (in cube, almost never happens anyway)
No, but Sulfuric Vortex stops life-gain too, which is clutch.
It also doesn't have to come down early in your curve to increase it's efficiency, and if it's answered after being on the board a few turns, you still get damage out of it. And it's a lot harder to remove. And the damage is more consistent.
Shrine is nowhere near Vortex. I'll give it enough time to see what it's capable of though. I don't like the fact that it's really awkward to place on curve, but the damage potential is huge. It's something different for red's gameplan which is nice.
That's the thing though. Mono Red Aggro is often considered one of the most effective strategies in Cube. Does it really need more tools (considering that most people put the Shrine in the colorless section)?
I am going to try out Shrine (as a red card). I don't think it will help mono-red aggro too much. Mono-red aggro might dominate in the mtgo cube (as evidenced by ChannelFireball videos), but it hasn't been too oppressive with the cubes I've drafted.
In general I feel like aggro is more difficult to support than control for a number of reasons. I also want an environment that is more slanted towards aggro.
That's the thing though. Mono Red Aggro is often considered one of the most effective strategies in Cube. Does it really need more tools (considering that most people put the Shrine in the colorless section)?
I would assume that the majority of people would classify it as a red card.
And anyways, mono-red aggro is not a dominant archetype in my cube. It's nowhere near as good as Boros or Rakdos or Naya aggro is.
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Set it and...
FORGET IT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLq27iOW0R0
(both are actually quite good)
-AA
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I would count Shrine as red and Shard as blue. Not only are they intrinsically stronger in their respective colors, but they wouldn't get played in off color decks.
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I disagree, most people on here knew these were all good from the start. Because they're all mana-expensive cards, it's a matter of juggling finisher slots rather than 'catching on'. I don't think they were sleepers. I still don't like Primeval Titan in cube, however, although I'd run the other two again if I went back up to 450.
Shrine could be worth a go, and I'm encouraged by this thread. It could be a genuine sleeper, and some cards just look bad on paper until you play them (Arcane Denial much?).
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Shrine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arcane Denial, so not an apt comparison. Also, people definitely did not consider Elesh Norn that great from the jump; it took some people playing it and sharing their experiences for others to take the plunge.
-AA
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Isn't it obvious? They are both "counter" cards!
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
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Wasn't it obvious in my post? I was saying Shrine looked bad to me (and apparently everyone else), but everyone says it plays very well. I think Arcane Denial also looks bad on paper, but plays great. That's what I was saying if you catch my drift.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
I caught your drift, I was just messing around. Some cards play a lot better than they look, and all that.
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This. I'll put one on the next singles order and try and figure out where it belongs in my arcane sorting system. I think I'll test it in a red slot unless someone has a convincing argument otherwise?
http://cubetutor.com/cubeblog/993
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/23690
I certainly wouldn't run it in a deck without red spells, I'll be adding it in my cube next update.
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-AA
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My deck was pretty terrible tonight but Shrine totally won me a game. It ticked up to 7 counters after I combined it with Chain Lightning & Char to knock my opponent from 14 life to zero. As I said, my deck was pretty bad but Shrine helped to do a big enough chunk for me to win a game with no creatures on board and running low on life.
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Pros vs. Sulfuric Vortex
non red source of damage
can kill creatures
does not damage you
Cons vs. Sulfuric Vortex
may not always result to 2 damage per turn
vulnerable to artifact removal (all the effect is lost)
damage can be prevented (in cube, almost never happens anyway)
effectively 5 mana, though split over 2 turns
So I am definitely trying this..... anything that gives Red variety of play I will at least test...
(I just love this forum! So many ideas going sround)
No, but Sulfuric Vortex stops life-gain too, which is clutch.
It also doesn't have to come down early in your curve to increase it's efficiency, and if it's answered after being on the board a few turns, you still get damage out of it. And it's a lot harder to remove. And the damage is more consistent.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
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My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
That's the thing though. Mono Red Aggro is often considered one of the most effective strategies in Cube. Does it really need more tools (considering that most people put the Shrine in the colorless section)?
In general I feel like aggro is more difficult to support than control for a number of reasons. I also want an environment that is more slanted towards aggro.
I would assume that the majority of people would classify it as a red card.
And anyways, mono-red aggro is not a dominant archetype in my cube. It's nowhere near as good as Boros or Rakdos or Naya aggro is.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!