MTG Salvation

Creating five 2/2 is really good, but you pay 10 mana for that. He is good with cheating into play, though.

I love this guy so much. He's such an army in a can. Playing him, letting him die and reanimating him is always super sick.

not seeing how something with echo 3GG is good for cheating into play. the card is great on its own giving you a huge surge in board position for an initial investment of 3GG. when you get to cast something often matters more than the total mana you end up spending on it.

I think cheating into play means something like recurring nightmare or mimic vat.

I'm fine with paying 10 mana over two turns if it'll win me the game in two turns, otherwise I'm fine with paying 5 mana for four blockers if I need four blockers. If you pay the echo cost, then it's fair by cube terms. It's the potential for abuse which makes it stapleworthy.

I think this card has an absurd power level. 9 power and 5 threats from one card is just bonkers. And he's so easy to abuse. I think it's the stone-cold nutz and I'd play it in every single cube of every size.

Quote from wtwlf123

I think this card has an absurd power level. 9 power and 5 threats from one card is just bonkers. And he's so easy to abuse. I think it's the stone-cold nutz and I'd play it in every single cube of every size.

This. If I were forced to play only one green five-drop, this would be it. Also: Squirrels!

The Hermit is a bit like Squee - his value is not necessarily in keeping him on the board. He goes off when you can continually recurse him (and is especially bonkers under a Vat).

Quote from wtwlf123

I think this card has an absurd power level. 9 power and 5 threats from one card is just bonkers. And he's so easy to abuse. I think it's the stone-cold nutz and I'd play it in every single cube of every size.

I don't have anything to add, so I'll just say "I agree!"

Cheers,
rant

When I get one, he's going in. Why?


I'm feeling less love for Woodfall Primus right now, so that could be cut in favor of the hermit. CMC=8 is on the far end of the curve and Green ramp isn't quite a deck yet (though that may change in the future), so the Primus is pretty much only accessible to reanimator decks. I'm trying to cut down on the number of narrow cards like that. For example, I just cut Blightsteel Colossus because it's only viable with Tinker. Anyway, I digress. The hermit is good whenever, including in ramp. Turn 3 hermit seems pretty good.

I like this guy, he is good on his own and has all the stats to be abusable in reveillark, mimic vat, crystal shard, and recurring nightmare decks. He's a beating and I don't see myself cutting him soon.

Deranged Hermit is easily the best 5-drop in my cube. Not only is he good on turn five, but he's fantastic when combo'ed with other archetypes. Blink decks see play somewhat often among my group and the Hermit is an absolute house is those decks. Plus, Recurring Nightmare. The potential for that combo alone might be reason enough alone to run Deranged Hermit.

Quote from Nof

Deranged Hermit MD% compared to other green creature finishers:

Rampaging Baloths 83%
Genesis 68%
Pelakka Wurm 64%
Moldgraf Monstrosity 63%
Thornling 61%
Kodama of the North Tree 58%
Vorapede 57%
Weatherseed Treefolk 55%
Terastodon 52%
Indrik Stomphowler 50%
Silvos, Rogue Elemental 50%
Woodfall Primus 50%
Deranged Hermit 48%
Wolfir Silverheart 0%
Hornet Queen 0%
Verdant Force 0%

Creatures are now far better than 10 years ago, making the competition hard for this guy. Will cut him at some point.

In a green deck, I wouldn't consider Deranged Hermit or any other 5cmc creature a "finisher" so much as "what I play on turn 3." Hornet Queen, Pelakka Wurm, Terastodon, Woodfall Primus -- sure, those are finishers.

The other problem is that several of the creatures in that list aren't better than Deranged Hermit, even as a finisher. The problem might not be Deranged Hermit

Quote from Nof

Deranged Hermit MD% compared to other green creature finishers:

Rampaging Baloths 83%
Genesis 68%
Pelakka Wurm 64%
Moldgraf Monstrosity 63%
Thornling 61%
Kodama of the North Tree 58%
Vorapede 57%
Weatherseed Treefolk 55%
Terastodon 52%
Indrik Stomphowler 50%
Silvos, Rogue Elemental 50%
Woodfall Primus 50%
Deranged Hermit 48%
Wolfir Silverheart 0%
Hornet Queen 0%
Verdant Force 0%

Creatures are now far better than 10 years ago, making the competition hard for this guy. Will cut him at some point.

Wow. That seems very undervalued. Typically drafted around pick 3-6 or so for us, he creates an unparalleled board presence at 5 mana and fits into many archetypes. As mentioned previously, with any reanimation or blink effect it can get out of hand quickly. As an aggro curve topper, the squirrels make great equipment carriers and have reasonable bodies with the hermit or other anthem effects out. If unaccounted for after a sweeper from a control deck its tough to deal with because of the board presence. It's so flexible and powerful. In my cube it's always main decked when playing green and has caused more rage quits than any other card I can think of. Squirrels.

I sit in the "he's awesome" camp. Worst case scenario you play him on turn 5 and have to pay his echo, getting 9 power to the board on turn 5. In most cases and if you're putting him in the right deck, his echo is actually an advantage.
He's absolutely one of the best and easiest creatures to abuse with all the blink/bounce cards, all the reanimation cards, all the anthem effects, and all that other stuff in between like mimic vat and skullclamp. That fits him into so many decks, that the only color combo he plays "fairly" in is red. If I see deranged hermit I've got a good reason start forcing blink or tokens, and I'll happily slam him on the table if I'm drafting rock. Solid-gamebreaking.

edit: sort of nath'd!

edit edit: squirrels.

edit edit edit: I guess they just added this "thanking" thing. I just thanked someone for kicks.

What's not to love about the Hermit?

9 power for two installments of 5 mana is solid on its own, and then any shenanigans are gravy. That's the sort of cube card I love; I don't want to dilute the power level too much to satisfy my Johnny tendencies, but like to have the opportunity for combo.

As FoggManatic Said, you can use the echo to your advantage (Jund echo with plenty of reanimation spells is a frequent deck in our cube).

Plus he's a crazy old dude with a bunch of pet homicidal nut-munchers! What's not to love?

I have thank you'd FoggManatic to see what would happen. Does one thank the posts one agrees with; the posts where one appreciates the arguments but disagrees with the conclusion; or the posts one thinks are complete nonsense but one recognises that its author has at least made an effort? Is there a guide to "thank you" etiquette? I am terribly English, so such things are very important to me. For the time being I think I had better thank all posts I read so as not to be rude.

Quote from Humpty_Dumpty

Plus he's a crazy old dude with a bunch of pet homicidal nut-munchers! What's not to love?

Deranged Hermit + Fling = this

Quote from Humpty_Dumpty

I have thank you'd FoggManatic to see what would happen. Does one thank the posts one agrees with; the posts where one appreciates the arguments but disagrees with the conclusion; or the posts one thinks are complete nonsense but one recognises that its author has at least made an effort? Is there a guide to "thank you" etiquette? I am terribly English, so such things are very important to me. For the time being I think I had better thank all posts I read so as not to be rude.

I sat and blinked at the screen in confusion for about a minute before I noticed the new 'thanking' feature. I thought you'd genuinely lost the plot there Humpty

Quote from Goodking

I sat and blinked at the screen in confusion for about a minute before I noticed the new 'thanking' feature. I thought you'd genuinely lost the plot there Humpty

I am overwhelmed with gratitude for your concern about my mental wellbeing.

"Hermit is great when your opponent has neither creatures or removal, but as soon as he has something to oppose you, this card loses drastically in value, unless all you wanted were some chump blockers in the first place.
It is still an OK card, but nothing that I would play with less than 540 cards.

Quote from froffenhoffer

Straight up this. Im not even sure I'd play him at 540. Hes very dated...

still not seeing where having my creature bring 4 guys with him is weak against removal or how he is just chumps against other creatures. what are they attacking me with when I can crack back for 9.

yes having him split up is more fragile on the offense in some situations but in others it lets you sneak through extra damage, its often better than trample because 3+ toughness blockers are stopping less damage.

He's amazing against both aggro and control. Against control, he rebuilds an army of creatures from one card, allowing you to immediately re-take board control post-wrath and have at least 4 threats that can carry equipment or benefit from anthems. And against aggro, you have 5 bodies and 9 power that can thwart attacks an put you in the drivers seat for the race.

He's not exclusively good with Recurring Nightmare. He's amazing with a ton of other cards in the cube. Every bounce/blink/reanimation spell, any way to abuse it at all and it goes from busted to game-winning. Including anthems, cards like Opposition and more. Not to mention that he's easily good enough on his own.

I think it's far and away the best green 5-drop.

For the reasons wtwlf mentioned, if I were forced to run only a single green 5-drop, even at this day and age, it would be Deranged Hermit.

Quote from Nof

Oh, and your condescending tone, which is not needed, nor useful, nor in the custom of our community.

My post was a bit condescending; although it was playful condescension (indicated by my smiley) and not intended to be mean, I apologize for it.

Quote from Nof

Yeah, the problem might be you thinking this list shows the card power, and not its popularity amongst my group.

You certainly seemed to be using the maindeck % in your group as partial grounds for cutting him:

Quote from Nof

Deranged Hermit MD% compared to other green creature finishers:
....
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..
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Deranged Hermit 48%
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Creatures are now far better than 10 years ago, making the competition hard for this guy. Will cut him at some point.

You seem to not think much of the card's power yourself, based on this quote -- which is fine. If you're ready to cut him, go for it. That's the beauty of cube: it's your environment. However, I think that your group owes it to itself to start maindecking it more so that you all can get a better feel for its power level. It's easy to cut good cards that look bad if you don't play with them in the first place.

Quote from Nof

They play with him almost half of the time, as the stat indicate. I think that give them enough opportunities to get a good idea of his powerlevel.

"You certainly seemed to be using the maindeck % in your group as partial grounds for cutting him".
Sure. The point of a Cube is to be enjoyed by the group who play with it. If a card is disliked, or, in this case, not a fan favorite, it's a partial ground for eventualy cutting it. I will not deny that.

Fair enough. I run some cards in my cube that most wouldn't agree on, simply because I like them (e.g Old Man of the Sea).

Anyway, apologies accepted. I'm sorry too I jumped to your throat, I'm sometime the ***** when I feel bullied (which, from what I got, was not your intention).

Thanks I don't want bad any bad blood here... the Cube forum is a bit of a refuge on MTGS.

How do people feel about this card in this day and age?

I personally don't feel Hermit has aged so well. Yes it's still good with blink, opposition, flicker and to a lesser extent skullclamp, but if you don't spend ten mana over two turns you're just left with 4 1/1 squirrel chump tokens. In comparison to other armies in a box like Cloudgoat Ranger or Siege-Gang Commander, this is a little underwhelming.

Even if you pay the echo you only get 9 power, which is par the course for a beatstick like Kalonian Hydra, Wolfir Silverheart or Verdurous Gearhulk. Granted, it's probably better than those beatsticks because the bodies are more spread out and there's value to being wide.

In contrast, something like Whisperwood elemental gives you immediately 6 power across two bodies and 8 power across 3 bodies on the following turn without echo requirement and extra small upsides from the manifest and wrath insurance.

Even more to the point, I'd probably rather being powering out an early planeswalker like Garruk, Primal Hunter turn 3 as I can immediately make a beast, leave my board state extremely resistant to wrath effects, don't lock down my mana next turn with echo, and can use it to draw gas which is huge for green as it has a ton of ramp but not a lot of premium card draw so it's easy to flood out or be left top-decking post wrath.