I feel without Batterskull, Skullclamp or Kaldra Compleat (I don't run it though) in my deck, she's not really worth it.
Honestly, she's been in my sights for removal for a while now. She just doesn't pull her weight in my environment for the simple fact my cube is too big and not enough quality targets for her to merit inclusion. The equipments seem to do just fine without her in the mix.
Minus Batterskull and Skullclamp, Mystic would still pull her weight with some of the Swords of X & Y and Grafted Wargear. I'll be adding Maul of the Skyclaves and Embercleave in my next update, so I have no intention of cutting Mystic like ever. I think she's absolutely one of the top 20- if not top 10 - white cards.
I feel without Batterskull, Skullclamp or Kaldra Compleat (I don't run it though) in my deck, she's not really worth it.
I think Stoneforge Mystic is easily one of the best white cards in cube (assuming you're not holding back on equipment). A 2 for 1 for that cheats things into play is busted at 1W.
Not running Batterskull / Clamp does lower its power level a bit, but I'd still cube it if I were cubing Jitte / critical mass of swords / etc.
Sorry that statement was very badly worded.
Correction:
- I run Batterskull / Clamp but not Kaldra Compleat.
- I was saying I feel stoneforge is not very good if the deck I'm running doesn't have Batterskull/ Clamp.
I realized this was very badly worded.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I kind of get what you mean. Stoneforge is a card that requires you have something to fetch and play. It's like Show and Tell without a payoff or Reanimate without a target. Still a great card, but you do need something.
I personally think cubes need cards like this to be interesting. Something you can do a little building around. A deck with 23 lightning bolts and 17 mountains is nice, but uninteresting.
The thing is though that it doesn't require much building around at all. Storm requires nearly your entire deck to be built around it for it to work. Stoneforge only needs one target.
She has always been a house in my 360 since I first built it. I can see she being weaker in larger cubes with lower equipment density, but at the same time you have more slots in white sections of larger cubes (and you're probably playing the premium equipment already), so having SFM doesn't feel like a huge opportunity cost. IDK.
I kind of get what you mean. Stoneforge is a card that requires you have something to fetch and play. It's like Show and Tell without a payoff or Reanimate without a target. Still a great card, but you do need something.
I personally think cubes need cards like this to be interesting. Something you can do a little building around. A deck with 23 lightning bolts and 17 mountains is nice, but uninteresting.
The thing is though that it doesn't require much building around at all. Storm requires nearly your entire deck to be built around it for it to work. Stoneforge only needs one target.
That I can agree with 100%.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I've noticed an evolution in Stoneforge Mystic's application / gameplay that I don't think has been talked about a lot.
- Artifacts matters has gotten a lot of buffs over the years. While white itself doesn't have a lot of artifacts matters cards, it's probably become the most paired color with blue for artifact decks since white has the largest critical mass of artifacts / things that generate artifacts. Artifacts matters has also become very creature centric, which means equipment becomes more important to artifacts matters, which means Stoneforge Mystic also becomes very important to artifacts matters.
- Mishra's Workshop / Tolarian Academy have only gotten better over time, which makes fetching for Batterskull / Kaldra Compleat much less of a liability in artifact shells. Kaldra Compleat also makes for a decent Tinker target.
- White has the best monarch / initiative enablers, so the ability to fetch cheap artifact creatures with configure or equipment with living weapon and its many variants has become very important to be on the winning side of the monarch / initiative subgame.
- Swords of X and Y haven't aged particularly well since power creep has made them a bit slow / clunky to use. I've been keeping some of them around for the sake of critical mass, but we've reached the point where they're expendable and can still have a critical mass of equipment to support Stoneforge Mystic.
There are a lot of good equipment made over the past 4 years. This card has gone up in my book as well. There are now two top end cards to pair with it, and a lot of good utility equipment to fetch.
People get too caught up on needing to tutor for like Batterskull and Kaldra Compleat and forget that even grabbing simple things like Shadowspear, Jitte and Swords are all insane plays for 2 mana, especially if you get to untap and flash them in uncounterable.
I once farted during the final match for prizes at an FNM. It was a tense moment, everything was quiet, control vs control, I was about to mana leak, thought about it.. and farted. Then mana leaked.
Honestly, she's been in my sights for removal for a while now. She just doesn't pull her weight in my environment for the simple fact my cube is too big and not enough quality targets for her to merit inclusion. The equipments seem to do just fine without her in the mix.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Sorry that statement was very badly worded.
Correction:
- I run Batterskull / Clamp but not Kaldra Compleat.
- I was saying I feel stoneforge is not very good if the deck I'm running doesn't have Batterskull/ Clamp.
I realized this was very badly worded.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I personally think cubes need cards like this to be interesting. Something you can do a little building around. A deck with 23 lightning bolts and 17 mountains is nice, but uninteresting.
The thing is though that it doesn't require much building around at all. Storm requires nearly your entire deck to be built around it for it to work. Stoneforge only needs one target.
Avatar by Hakai Studios
That I can agree with 100%.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
- Artifacts matters has gotten a lot of buffs over the years. While white itself doesn't have a lot of artifacts matters cards, it's probably become the most paired color with blue for artifact decks since white has the largest critical mass of artifacts / things that generate artifacts. Artifacts matters has also become very creature centric, which means equipment becomes more important to artifacts matters, which means Stoneforge Mystic also becomes very important to artifacts matters.
- Mishra's Workshop / Tolarian Academy have only gotten better over time, which makes fetching for Batterskull / Kaldra Compleat much less of a liability in artifact shells. Kaldra Compleat also makes for a decent Tinker target.
- White has the best monarch / initiative enablers, so the ability to fetch cheap artifact creatures with configure or equipment with living weapon and its many variants has become very important to be on the winning side of the monarch / initiative subgame.
- Swords of X and Y haven't aged particularly well since power creep has made them a bit slow / clunky to use. I've been keeping some of them around for the sake of critical mass, but we've reached the point where they're expendable and can still have a critical mass of equipment to support Stoneforge Mystic.
My High Octane Unpowered Cube on CubeCobra
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq
https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/3pq