I think it shouldn't be forgotten that tinker for a utility artifact is a perfectly valid play.
Sure, tinker for battlesphere, wurmcoil, or sphinx is great, but the card was broken long before such great targets were printed. I'm more than happy with tinker if my deck's only real targets are trike, disk, and processor, because it will win games even without the massive mana cheating.
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Don't forget that you can tinker away something which is spent or no longer useful like Tangle Wire or a tapped Mana Vault just to get some added utility or equipment.
Tinker is a card that I don't currently run for this very reason: my cube doesn't run moxen, signets or talismans. Would you run it anyway?
Not running any "mana stones" sounds like a bad (or, if deliberate, very uncommon) idea. All the control decks want them and they enable cool decks like esper-ramp-to-Sundering-Titan, Upheaval or Wildfire.
Specialities about the cube: U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
I don't think it's entirely non-standard. I only choose not to run the mana rocks that produce coloured mana. I do run Mind Stone and Everflowing Chalice as they produce colourless mana. I should probably put some more of these in as well, such as Fellwar Stone and Prismatic Lens. I'm even starting to like Pristine Talisman in a control deck, so might give it a try (tried it in the MTGO cube and liked it). I also run Mox Diamond, since you have to give up something for the access to coloured mana. Since I do run these, I suppose that should answer my question about Tinker targets.
The obvious reason that I don't run the coloured accelerators is that I'm trying to preserve some kind of identity for Green (blah blah blah, right?). Anyway, my view is that land can fix mana, and artifacts can accelerate (colourlessly), but only Green can fix and accelerate. It's what I'm running now and we'll see how it goes. As I look into more of these specific strategies, I may find it a bit difficult. For example, I know that Wildfire strategies want coloured mana rocks if they can. I'm not curerntly running Wildfire but would like to add it back in but first I'll have a look at whether it's viable in this environment.
I have a non P9 cube and Tinker is still excellent. I generally want to have at least two things to get with it, but most control decks have multiple artifacts so sacrificing stuff isn't too big a deal. The other day I had Tinker in a UB deck to go get either Wurmcoil or Sundering Titan with a Sol Ring, an Everflowing Chalice, an off-color signet and Mimic Vat as the sacrificial lambs. Worked great.
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I don't think it's entirely non-standard. I only choose not to run the mana rocks that produce coloured mana. I do run Mind Stone and Everflowing Chalice as they produce colourless mana. I should probably put some more of these in as well, such as Fellwar Stone and Prismatic Lens. I'm even starting to like Pristine Talisman in a control deck, so might give it a try (tried it in the MTGO cube and liked it). I also run Mox Diamond, since you have to give up something for the access to coloured mana. Since I do run these, I suppose that should answer my question about Tinker targets.
The obvious reason that I don't run the coloured accelerators is that I'm trying to preserve some kind of identity for Green (blah blah blah, right?). Anyway, my view is that land can fix mana, and artifacts can accelerate (colourlessly), but only Green can fix and accelerate. It's what I'm running now and we'll see how it goes. As I look into more of these specific strategies, I may find it a bit difficult. For example, I know that Wildfire strategies want coloured mana rocks if they can. I'm not curerntly running Wildfire but would like to add it back in but first I'll have a look at whether it's viable in this environment.
I'd at least run the blue ones. Blue sort of needs it.
How many cheap artifacts do you have to run to make Tinker worthwhile? I'm planning to add at least the 1/2 blue Signets, is that enough in addition to what I have already? and how many good, game ending targets do you need to have?
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
i don't run any moxen (yet) but I make tinker work like hell. once you pick up a tinker and big targets, you start looking out for whatever smaller artifacts you can get your hands on. i think mana rocks are the most common ones, but I did T1 SDT into a T2 ancient tomb + tinker once!
Hm, I'd say in a 360 cards cube, 18-20 artifacts that cost 2 or less should be optimal. I run 34 of those at 600 cards. Having a few Signets, Talismans or other mana stones in the cube is always nice and they work well with Tinker.
Hm, I'd say in a 360 cards cube, 18-20 artifacts that cost 2 or less should be optimal. I run 34 of those at 600 cards. Having a few Signets, Talismans or other mana stones in the cube is always nice and they work well with Tinker.
Ok so I need to get some more then. Counting creatures I have 16.
I guess I'll try and get a hold of:
The 1/2 blue signets
The 1/2 blue talismans
and the 1/2 red signets
That should be enough right? in addition to most of the ones I'm currently running.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Am I counting correctly - are those 9 manafacts in your list? That seems a bit much for 360 cards.
9 plus a few I'm already running. It probably is a bit much. . .
Of course, its only a matter of time before I move up to 400 or 450. Just have to get enough worthwhile cards. . . and enough sleeves.
I guess for now I'll focus on just the 1/2 blue signets. I think I have most of those lying around somewhere anyway.
As an alternative to adding the signets and talismans (I don't like misbalancing the mana rocks across colors), here are a bunch of artifacts I regularly use with Tinker that I didn't see in your list:
Am I counting correctly - are those 9 manafacts in your list? That seems a bit much for 360 cards.
9 plus a few I'm already running. It probably is a bit much. . .
Of course, its only a matter of time before I move up to 400 or 450. Just have to get enough worthwhile cards. . . and enough sleeves.
I guess for now I'll focus on just the 1/2 blue signets. I think I have most of those lying around somewhere anyway.
As an alternative to adding the signets and talismans (I don't like misbalancing the mana rocks across colors), here are a bunch of artifacts I regularly use with Tinker that I didn't see in your list:
Lets see. . . I don't want to run the fast mana like Mana Vault and Grim Monolith. Chrome Mox and Phyrexian Revoker are on my want list. Same with Coalition Relic.
Are Everflowing Chalice and Rachet Bomb worth it at 360? I have 1 of both I could use.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
I only have a 450 so I'm a bit out of touch with what is 360-worthy, but I do know that I'd prefer adding a more universal manarock in Everflowing Chalice, than a signet for only 2 colors. It'll help support Wildfire (which I see you run), but also can just be played for 0 on turn 3 with tinker at the very least. I've enjoyed having it in my cube.
Ratchet Bomb is a bit fringier. It's nice for token hate or to deal with troublesome permanents. I'd really only add it if you feel like your cube could use a colorless, slow but effective, catch-all removal rock.
It's an obvious staple, but what cards are required to make it a deck? What do you sacrifice most often, and what do you tinker up?
Yeah...that was a rough match for me.
But yeah, you need to run the moxes/sol ring/monolith or signets/talismans to make it worthwhile.
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Sure, tinker for battlesphere, wurmcoil, or sphinx is great, but the card was broken long before such great targets were printed. I'm more than happy with tinker if my deck's only real targets are trike, disk, and processor, because it will win games even without the massive mana cheating.
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Tinker is a card that I don't currently run for this very reason: my cube doesn't run moxen, signets or talismans. Would you run it anyway?
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Probably not, It really depens on how many low cost artifact you have left after.
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Not running any "mana stones" sounds like a bad (or, if deliberate, very uncommon) idea. All the control decks want them and they enable cool decks like esper-ramp-to-Sundering-Titan, Upheaval or Wildfire.
450, Peasant*, unpowered**
Specialities about the cube:
U tempo, B aggro, R slow-ish are supported. G aggro is not.
Currently trying to support tokens in all colors but blue, in different ways: W pumps them, B sacrifices them, R suicides them, G has decent-sized ones.
cube list outdated
*literal C/U definition according to gatherer
**some cards are banned. Library of Alexandria, Land Tax, Sol Ring.
The obvious reason that I don't run the coloured accelerators is that I'm trying to preserve some kind of identity for Green (blah blah blah, right?). Anyway, my view is that land can fix mana, and artifacts can accelerate (colourlessly), but only Green can fix and accelerate. It's what I'm running now and we'll see how it goes. As I look into more of these specific strategies, I may find it a bit difficult. For example, I know that Wildfire strategies want coloured mana rocks if they can. I'm not curerntly running Wildfire but would like to add it back in but first I'll have a look at whether it's viable in this environment.
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I'd at least run the blue ones. Blue sort of needs it.
It's actually T1 with a Mana Crypt, and T2 with a Mox.
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Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
Ok so I need to get some more then. Counting creatures I have 16.
I guess I'll try and get a hold of:
The 1/2 blue signets
The 1/2 blue talismans
and the 1/2 red signets
That should be enough right? in addition to most of the ones I'm currently running.
Uril, the Miststalker RGW -- Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre C -- Vhati il-Dal BG -- Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer RW -- Animar, Soul of Elements URG
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker R -- Maga, Traitor to Mortals B -- Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW -- Sliver Hivelord WUBRG
9 plus a few I'm already running. It probably is a bit much. . .
Of course, its only a matter of time before I move up to 400 or 450. Just have to get enough worthwhile cards. . . and enough sleeves.
I guess for now I'll focus on just the 1/2 blue signets. I think I have most of those lying around somewhere anyway.
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Lets see. . . I don't want to run the fast mana like Mana Vault and Grim Monolith. Chrome Mox and Phyrexian Revoker are on my want list. Same with Coalition Relic.
Are Everflowing Chalice and Rachet Bomb worth it at 360? I have 1 of both I could use.
Ratchet Bomb is a bit fringier. It's nice for token hate or to deal with troublesome permanents. I'd really only add it if you feel like your cube could use a colorless, slow but effective, catch-all removal rock.
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