MTG Salvation

So I've been hearing a lot of hype lately about this beast!



I don't have any pros or cons formulated yet, but I will update the OP with them as soon as I get some discussion from you guys

First thing I want to know is, how would you rank it with the other 6+ finishers in white (including eternal dragon and decree of justice).

Image leeching replaced.
—Lanxal

Personally, as far as white finishers go, baneslayer is my personal favorite with sun titan not too far behind.

Eternal Dragon isn't a finisher, it's a 2 mana spell. So I wouldn't include it in the conversation.

Here's my finisher ranking:
Sun Titan
Decree of Justice
Reveillark
Baneslayer Angel
Yosei

Perhaps Elesh Norn is better than Baneslayer? Certainly (ducks for cover) it does a better job of passing the Vindicate test. And it's a reanimation target.

As far as 6+cc creatures go, she's easily the second best one (behind Sun Titan) she has a huge immediate impact, and a ridiculous continuous impact.

I like Eternal Dragon more, but that's because (like magicmerl) I consider it a 2cc spell, and not a 7cc creature. It's sometimes both, but it's almost always cycled first.

Reveillark and Baneslayer I like more too, but I don't classify those together with my huge fatties.

If my cube was any bigger, she'd be my next include as a fatty.

I've been really impressed with Elesh Norn since I added her. Costing 7 is a con compared with the 6 mana options but she is definitely worth the mana once you get there.

7 mana is a lot easier to achieve than it looks. I will likely be adding to to my cube, not only because its a great curve topper but a great reanimation target.

Quote from Happy Gilmore

7 mana is a lot easier to achieve than it looks. I will likely be adding to to my cube, not only because its a great curve topper but a great reanimation target.

Any reason you say this? I would argue that seven mana is exactly as difficult to achieve as it looks, and it will on average take 2-3 more turns to hit 7 from 6, sans some sort of huge accelerant.

Quote from Phantizle

Any reason you say this? I would argue that seven mana is exactly as difficult to achieve as it looks, and it will on average take 2-3 more turns to hit 7 from 6, sans some sort of huge accelerant.

Mana vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, etc.

All these cards catapult your mana. Games drag on at times, even when agro is playing agro. I find myself hitting 7 a lot of times, I'd imagine it would be even better if I built a deck with accelleration built in. Heck, Rofellos and Lotus Cobra can get you there as early as turn 4-5. There is enough acceleration to make it happen.

P.S. This makes me want to play Somberwald Sage

The Sage is serious business if you have creatures like Norn and Grizelbrand roaming around in addition to the normal fatty suite.

Quote from wtwlf123

The Sage is serious business if you have creatures like Norn and Grizelbrand roaming around in addition to the normal fatty suite.

This is why I run one or two "extra" fatties in each color than most cubes. I frankly don't mind much that they are often late picks or table--I am far more frustrated at the ramp/reanimation/cheat-into-play deck that can't find a good target.

If I could afford it, I'd certainly play Norn. I push tokens in white pretty hard, and she's obviously a game-over card if you have any tokens out.

Quote from wtwlf123

The Sage is serious business if you have creatures like Norn and Grizelbrand roaming around in addition to the normal fatty suite.

Well, fatties are the other end of the reanimation strategy. I think the sage is a real consideration at this point. I think having a solid number of them that are castable would work best.


Lets see...

White:
Elish Norn, Grand Cenobite
Yosei the Morning Star
Sun Titan


Green:
Woodfall Primus
Pelaka Wurm
Terastadon
(many more)

Red:
Does Moltensteel Dragon count?
Crater Helion (he is worth reanimating for a number of reasons, up to and including being able to use him mutiple times as a wrath.
Inferno Titan

Black:
Grislebrand
Rune Scared Demon
Grave Titan

Blue:
[card]
Frost Titan
[/card]Consecrated Sphinx[card]
Keiga, the Tide Star
[/card]

Elesh is probably the best white superfatty (Eternal Dragon doesn't really count). I run Akroma because, well, it's Akroma, but that's not a rational choice.

Griselbrand is a hoot. In a draft last night I attacked with Psychatog which wasn't blocked, discarded Griselbrand to it, Necromancy'd Griselbrand, drew 14 cards and ended the game. Badass.

That Sage is a nice suggestion.

Quote from Humpty_Dumpty

Griselbrand is a hoot. In a draft last night I attacked with Psychatog which wasn't blocked, discarded Griselbrand to it, Necromancy'd Griselbrand, drew 14 cards and ended the game. Badass.

That IS badass.

I think so. She's pretty bonkers.

Quote from Magic-Jiffen

I might do this trade.

She's tested out quite a bit better than Yosei so far for us. It's amazing how many creatures are x/2's and it beaters into weenies. I actually added Massacre Wurm during my last update to try out as Elesh Norn jr.

Elesh Norn seems real good but I can't believe how down people are on Yosei. I still think she's sweet. A dragon that can turn into a timewalk (and often multiple timewalks) is real good.

Yosei is fine, but an actual X-for-1 is usually better than the possible-timewalk on the dragon.

Yosei does make more absurd "ideal stories" when everything goes to plan.

Yosei's my 3rd favorite 6+cc white creature now. Before Sun Titan, she was my favorite. Before Norn, she was my second favorite. That doesn't mean I'm "down" on Yosei. It just means that every once in a while, they print cards that are better than others.

Is Yosei a female? I always assumed that Keiga was female, but is there any info on which of those dragons is male / female?

I'm probably the biggest proponent to Norn for cube you'll find. I think it's easily the best colored finisher in cube as it just takes over games like nothing else I've seen. If you're on the fence about her just give her a shot. She will almost assuredly surpass expectations.

Quote from Darkmindtone

I'm probably the biggest proponent to Norn for cube you'll find. I think it's easily the best colored finisher in cube as it just takes over games like nothing else I've seen. If you're on the fence about her just give her a shot. She will almost assuredly surpass expectations.

I'm unsure if I'd say that she's better than something like Grave Titan but definitely agreed that she's extremely good (and glad to see that she's finally starting to get some respect around here, I remember seeing a post that said that she was an "overcosted Bone Shredder that dies to Doom Blade" that made me just shake my head because of how exaggerated and inaccurate the post was.) Hard to say whether I think she's better than Sun Titan, but other than that, easily my favorite white finisher.

Elesh has far exceeded my expectations, and it has much more impact than what it looks like on paper (cardboard). With a 540ish, it is easy for me to play a number of white finishers, but I'd have to rank it towards the top of the power level for white big mana finishers.

-AA

I've been wanting her in my Cube for so long. She seems like one of the most incredible finishers.

Lady Norn will be making her appearance in our upcoming AVR update - once we get around to it.

For me it's basically tied with Sun Titan for my top White finisher. Which is better really depends on the makeup of the deck they are in.