Grizzly Fate has been a solid one for us around here. Sometimes it's just two 2/2's for five, which is fine, but often it's the ridiculous threshold casting. When that happens, it's very hard to lose...
Mishra's Helix seems like it could be a really annoying card, locking your opponent out of mana turn after turn or the most expensive Rishadan Port ever.
Helix was used in Kai Budde's championship deck if I'm not mistaken. Though he did abuse it with City of Traitors and artifact mana. I think it might warrant some testing if you've got repeatable triggers that doesn't cost mana, kinda like Planeswalkers I would guess.
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Akrasan Squire has earned a spot in my cube as well. It is super solid early game drop, swinging for two and can at least do something when drawn later (Mr. Lion, I am looking at you...) The +1/+1 can actually matter quite a bit.
I have an interesting one that I just stuck in my cube to give a whirl to...
Now, Merfolk Looter and Thought Courier are pretty awesome dudes in the cube, digging untold riches, discarding Madness, Flashback and Fatties, and making use of extra land. Artful Looter can speed up this process dramatically, especially if you pick your lands carefully... (or just run all unhinged lands)
I like Artful Looter quite a bit and have been meaning to try him out. Brine Elemental has been pretty mediocre for a while and I'm sure this card would see significantly more play most likely.
One card that looks like it has potential is Death Denied. Obviously, doing it for 1 isn't optimal (3 mana for a Raise Dead, yay!) But, in the mid/late game, getting back 3-4 or more creatures from your grave EOT (granted, they go into your hand, not play. If it was play, that card would be broken as hell.) could be backbreaking. Has anyone else tried it?
I have not read through the million pages of this thread so sorry if this card has been discussed before or is a staple card but I was thinking Jihad (btw how do you autocard?) until then WWW enchantment name a color, as long as opponent controls a card of that color all white creatures you control get +2+1.
Seems situationally better and worse than other anthem effects, although it's pretty redonk if they have an enchantment or a creature with a pacafism type effect on it.
I have Death Denied and it's been sitting in my cube for a while. It's precisely the X and the instant speed that has kept it in. Just like how you don't really Fireball for 1 or 2, you don't Death Denied for just one dude. It usually gets 2 or 3+ dudes out of your graveyard, and is particularly brutal after a Wrath effect (with more brutal ownage, try Kagemaro as one of those creatures that you are actively binning, plus an Eternal Witness on the side to create a lock).
It's actually very similar to Grim Harvest, which, while mana intensive, can easily generate you a lot of long term advantage. Death Denied just does it all in one turn.
I would consider it a very good dark horse card.
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Nope, but that flavor text is sooo cheesy. I wonder who thought that was a gouda-dea.
It seems vulnerable and chumpable too. You even have to lose a turn adding counters, which lets your opponent see this thing coming from a mile away. In fact, most people will let you waste a turn sinking your mana into this, and then kill it. So you are essentially paying 2UU to cast timewalk for your opponent.
I have Death Denied and it's been sitting in my cube for a while. It's precisely the X and the instant speed that has kept it in. Just like how you don't really Fireball for 1 or 2, you don't Death Denied for just one dude. It usually gets 2 or 3+ dudes out of your graveyard, and is particularly brutal after a Wrath effect (with more brutal ownage, try Kagemaro as one of those creatures that you are actively binning, plus an Eternal Witness on the side to create a lock).
It's actually very similar to Grim Harvest, which, while mana intensive, can easily generate you a lot of long term advantage. Death Denied just does it all in one turn.
I would consider it a very good dark horse card.
That is what I was thinking, I'm going to try it. Thank you.
It's like a better Temper, I like it. Though Temper is scalable, lol.
I've always had a soft spot for Carom, ever since I got wrecked by it in RGD (Carom, save my guy, kill your attacker, redirect to your Dark Confidant, and I draw a card?). Pretty sure it's not good enough to go into a regular cube, maybe in like a more creature oriented one (at least it makes it into my all commons cube).
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I absolutely cannot speak enough for Cabal Interrogator, it can be fantastic!
The other two seem ok, I think I'd prefer Nezumi Shortfang over Greel, Mind Raker. Mirri seems fine tho if a little average...
Mirri is great in our cube. 3/2, Haste, First Strike, Flying is awesome at 4 mana. The +1/+1 ability is just gravy. The card as is, is awesome, honestly it is a little Akroma. If you can drop it turn 3/4 and equip ANYTHING, you can have a huge late game bomb in the mid-game. You get everything you pay for and some with Mirri.
Mirri is great in our cube. 3/2, Haste, First Strike, Flying is awesome at 4 mana. The +1/+1 ability is just gravy. The card as is, is awesome, honestly it is a little Akroma. If you can drop it turn 3/4 and equip ANYTHING, you can have a huge late game bomb in the mid-game. You get everything you pay for and some with Mirri.
I've never played it in cube but I can't see it being that good. The number of abilities stacked on this card work together pretty poorly and usually only one or two are relevant. In TPF draft it was fine but not amazing which doesn't lead me to think it will be good, or as you say great in cube.
Maybe my results are skewed since my cube largely resolves mid and late game. Dropping this down with the help of accel on turn 3 is usually pretty solid, as that often will be the first actual threat of the game. The black four drop beaters in my cube are all pretty solid and the haste evasion on this one puts it at the top of the list.
@iceage, you should really give it a shot I like it over most of your 4cc in black. I said this over on the Wizard boards as well but, Marsh Flitter < Mirri the Cursed.
@rant, i agree it is a middle pick, its no first pick. my enthusiasm is intended for people that are not currently running it at all. imo it is an easy include in the black 4cc slot, unless you are running a small cube and don't have the room.
Mirri makes the cut in all of our heavy-black decks. It's one of the best creatures her color has to offer. I think it can make the cut in any cube. Cabal Interrogator seems to have potential.
Like I said maybe my results are skewed, so if you don't want to swallow the mini-akroma argument here is the "you should atleast be running it argument." In Arabian Nights, black's design included a 4 drop efficient beat stick, ever since then, effectively costed black beats has been a recurring staple of black. Over the years we had many variatoins on the 4 drop black beat stick and I don't see why you would not include some of the highlights in a larger cube.
The longer a Djinn (5/5) stays in play the more damage can go through which seems to be the logic behind most peoples choices. In a perfect answerless, blockless world that works out pretty great. But how many of your cubes would allow a Djinn to have 4 turns with 3 undisputed attacks? More often than not he will be allowed to swing less than twice and chump blocked in the mean time. If he spends less than 2 turns on he table Mirri is ahead in damage and has the evasion to avoid the chump block. If it is 3 turns on the table Mirri is down 1 point of damage, but the lack of chump blockabilty is something to keep in mind. After a full 4 un-asweredno blocked turns you get to see Djinn truly outshine Mirri. Anything short of that and the haste/evasion takes the trophy.
The other argument may be that the Djinn cards are more effective at defense in which case I would suggest you run a wall. A 3/2 Flying First Strike most of the time will be able to either get around or crash into anything that the Djinn would. Another fear would be burn, and if thats the case then you got it. Burn is definitely more effective on Mirri. The other two points have to count for something though.
So when it comes to attacks Mirri will average more damage becuase A) She has haste therefore should see more combat and B) She evades the chump block. On the defensive side Djinn has a bigger body but Mirri has First Strike, and who is blocking in aggressive black anyway? If red burn is prevalent and this is a big enough issue to exclude her, then fair enough just be aware of her merits.
I'm left with saying if youre running Djinn, Plague or Scuta and the such, Mirri fits the same role and often will do it more effectively. If you aren't running this suite of Black beats, she's still not bad. So freaking put her in your cube already
You have to look at their toughness' however. Juzams et al. all are much harder to burn out than Mirri and as iconic creatures they usually get the nod (hence the price tag on a Juzam Djinn)
Grinning Demon is obv inferior to the power of 1st strike lol.
TBH tho, I think that it is a very good filler/budget 4drop for black, there are however just much better replacements IMO.
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Mishra's Helix seems like it could be a really annoying card, locking your opponent out of mana turn after turn or the most expensive Rishadan Port ever.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
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I have an interesting one that I just stuck in my cube to give a whirl to...
Artful Looter
Now, Merfolk Looter and Thought Courier are pretty awesome dudes in the cube, digging untold riches, discarding Madness, Flashback and Fatties, and making use of extra land. Artful Looter can speed up this process dramatically, especially if you pick your lands carefully... (or just run all unhinged lands)
John Avon FTW.
Anyone else try this?
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White: AWOL
Blue: Artful Looter
Black: Duh
Red: Blast from the Past
Green: Symbol Status
Artifact: Togglodyte
Gold: Who/What/When/Where/Why
Land: City of Ass
They all seem fun and fairly strong as well.
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Seems situationally better and worse than other anthem effects, although it's pretty redonk if they have an enchantment or a creature with a pacafism type effect on it.
It's actually very similar to Grim Harvest, which, while mana intensive, can easily generate you a lot of long term advantage. Death Denied just does it all in one turn.
I would consider it a very good dark horse card.
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It seems vulnerable and chumpable too. You even have to lose a turn adding counters, which lets your opponent see this thing coming from a mile away. In fact, most people will let you waste a turn sinking your mana into this, and then kill it. So you are essentially paying 2UU to cast timewalk for your opponent.
That is what I was thinking, I'm going to try it. Thank you.
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I've always had a soft spot for Carom, ever since I got wrecked by it in RGD (Carom, save my guy, kill your attacker, redirect to your Dark Confidant, and I draw a card?). Pretty sure it's not good enough to go into a regular cube, maybe in like a more creature oriented one (at least it makes it into my all commons cube).
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Cabal Interrogator
Greel, the Mind Raker
Mirri the Cursed
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
The other two seem ok, I think I'd prefer Nezumi Shortfang over Greel, Mind Raker. Mirri seems fine tho if a little average...
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I've never played it in cube but I can't see it being that good. The number of abilities stacked on this card work together pretty poorly and usually only one or two are relevant. In TPF draft it was fine but not amazing which doesn't lead me to think it will be good, or as you say great in cube.
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@iceage, you should really give it a shot I like it over most of your 4cc in black. I said this over on the Wizard boards as well but,
Marsh Flitter < Mirri the Cursed.
@rant, i agree it is a middle pick, its no first pick. my enthusiasm is intended for people that are not currently running it at all. imo it is an easy include in the black 4cc slot, unless you are running a small cube and don't have the room.
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Turn 1-4
Djinn: 0 Mirri: 3
Djinn: 5 Mirri: 6
Djinn: 10 Mirri: 9
Djinn: 15 Mirri: 12
The longer a Djinn (5/5) stays in play the more damage can go through which seems to be the logic behind most peoples choices. In a perfect answerless, blockless world that works out pretty great. But how many of your cubes would allow a Djinn to have 4 turns with 3 undisputed attacks? More often than not he will be allowed to swing less than twice and chump blocked in the mean time. If he spends less than 2 turns on he table Mirri is ahead in damage and has the evasion to avoid the chump block. If it is 3 turns on the table Mirri is down 1 point of damage, but the lack of chump blockabilty is something to keep in mind. After a full 4 un-aswered no blocked turns you get to see Djinn truly outshine Mirri. Anything short of that and the haste/evasion takes the trophy.
The other argument may be that the Djinn cards are more effective at defense in which case I would suggest you run a wall. A 3/2 Flying First Strike most of the time will be able to either get around or crash into anything that the Djinn would. Another fear would be burn, and if thats the case then you got it. Burn is definitely more effective on Mirri. The other two points have to count for something though.
So when it comes to attacks Mirri will average more damage becuase A) She has haste therefore should see more combat and B) She evades the chump block. On the defensive side Djinn has a bigger body but Mirri has First Strike, and who is blocking in aggressive black anyway? If red burn is prevalent and this is a big enough issue to exclude her, then fair enough just be aware of her merits.
I'm left with saying if youre running Djinn, Plague or Scuta and the such, Mirri fits the same role and often will do it more effectively. If you aren't running this suite of Black beats, she's still not bad. So freaking put her in your cube already
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But Mirri has first strike!
Seriously does anyone else like this card? I think it is poo.
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TBH tho, I think that it is a very good filler/budget 4drop for black, there are however just much better replacements IMO.
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