I always thought Desolation Angel was pretty much a staple for cubes, particularly if you have cubes that count number of cards for guild colour combinations. It's like infinitely more powerful than Angel of Despair.
Like you said, Armageddon + 5/4 Flier pretty much means gg.
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It just feels like this thread has moved from cards that you wouldn't think to be that powerful in the cube environment that really shine to people just posting seemingly random cards and talking about them.
When I built my cube I first used Evan Erwin's as a shell, some of the card choices seemed like lazy current type 2 draft cards but I wanted to give everything a shot. In that vein I feel in love with Cloudgoat Ranger, the white siege-gang as he's now referred to. That would be my example of a "Dark Horse" in cube, 4 guys on 1 spell = good times for the caster.
After I tried Togglodyte in the cube, it's definitely earned its keep. It's kind of like a bigger Chimeric Idol. I figured that the Togglodyte would be a 4/4 that can't block and that's pretty much what it was because pretty much every turn, it attacked easily (if it was "off" before attack time, I played a random spell and if it was "on" before attacks, I just attacked.) Like the Idol, you have to change your play style a bit to play around its drawback, but it is very very much worth it. There are possible flash/instant shenanigans which can prevent its damage, but I didn't see it today.
Dark horse cards depend alot on what exists in the cube. Alot of the suggestions here are creatures but i think more of the dark horses might be enchantments or artifacts that are supposedly under the radar.
Some suggestion from my cube:
Holistic Wisdom (replaying bombs spells again and again)
Twilight Shepherd (very strong with all of White's mass creature removal)
Palinchron (easiest infinite mana combo in the cube)
Kira (makes blue's annoying creatures that much harder to deal with)
Uyo Silent Prophet (makes your opponent think twice about big spells)
Nether Void (black armageddon)
Rival's Duel (Red barter in blood that can kill creatures that are well out of burn range)
Altar of Dementia (milling theme, pro creature stealing)
Yea, after hearing what people have been saying about Nether Void here the past few days I think I'm going to have to pick one up. Seems very splashable and playable for most aggressive decks.
Twilight Shepherd has been solid. Big fan of Vigilance and Persist, with the CITP trigger basically just gravy.
Been meaning to try out Rival's Duel, but I'm always hesitant. I'll try to give it a shot today.
Holistic Wisdom seems fine in a more powerful Cube with a solid combo element to it. Every Regrowth spell I've tried other than Regrowth and Restock have been met with "meh" responses since my cube is very combat step oriented (Nostalgic Dreams, All Suns' Dawn, Recollect, etc). Getting something retarded like Ancestral Recall every turn seems ridiculous though.
Palinchron is a solid one. I think most people play him though (if not, they probably should). Even without a combo he's just an excellent control finisher as he can hold off any creature with the bounce ability, or just allow counterspell mana to still be open after his trigger resolves.
Uyo and Kira seem solid, but not sure if they're quite good enough to make the cut in many stacks.
I don't really know how to evaluate Alter outside of a Cube with a mill sub-theme. Seems solid in yours though.
Several of these have been mentioned before, but I feel they are worth repeating:
Equilibrium: It makes all your creatures effectively cost 1 more, but the sheer power of this card is often backbreaking.
Maze of Ith: At first glance it seems underwhelming, but it's a solid card that fits into practically any deck.
Old Man of the Sea: Sure he looks good on paper, but I want to stress how much better he one he's on the table. Heck, if all else fails he's a 2/3 for 1UU in blue.
Preacher: See above, though a little out of flavor for white.
Crackdown: WW sorely needs an "oops I win" card, and this is it. More than that it's excellent for control decks that want to stall the board into a white finisher.
Flickerwisp is amazing, extremely versatile (removes blockers, resets cards like planeswalkers and Parallax Wave, gets more uses out of 187 creatures and "leaves play" creatures like Spitebellows and Reveillark.)
I tried the Primus not long after shadowmoor but it didn't get much love. I do like that it is extremely versatile, especially in killing things like problematic artifacts, lands, enchantments and planeswalkers, but the 8 mana tag that comes with it hurts a lot, so I took it out.
I recently added Canker Abomination and it's totally awesome. Because of more mass-removal in cube and a little less creatures than the average set, it's very easy to get this in play as a 5/5 or 6/6. It also can't be Terror'd which is cool.
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
Drain Life {X1B} |Sorcery| Spend only black mana on X. / Drain Life deals X damage to target creature or player. You gain life equal to the damage dealt, but not more life than the player's life total before Drain Life dealt damage or the creature's toughness.
Consume Spirit {X1B} |Sorcery| Spend only black mana on X. / Consume Spirit deals X damage to target creature or player and you gain X life.
so what were you saying ? You can both target only one creature with it. both have the same mana costs and restriction. Consume lets you gain X life, drain deals damage and lets you gain that much life but only a maximum of the life the player or toughness the creature has.
Consume Spirit >>> Drain Life
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
like dividing damage ? to me the wording is confusing and may still have meant one target (if you didn't know the errata) Also, the latest wording (FNM promo) is the current oracle wording
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"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but Miraculous Recovery looks to be amazing, like a better Makeshift Mannequin. Or at least, an amazing trick (and interesting with persist interactions as well) and can reanimate fatties (whereas with Mannequin, it wasn't as good an idea because of the fragility of the creature.)
The 4th edition version of Drain Life makes it so that it's pretty much a black Rolling Thunder in that you can pay BBB and deal 3 damage to one target and BB and deal 2 to another target. I'm personally not too much a fan of that kind of errata, but that's an interesting take on it.
Yeah, I got that about the Drain Life. I don't like it. I like the Oracle wordings of the card. Because that is what everybody will logically assume.
Miraculous Recovery is one of the nice instant reanimators and if I had it, I would add it in my cube.
I don't think there is a nice interaction with Persist in there ..
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Can the creature be targeted by Miraculous Recovery when it is in the graveyard before coming back via persist? I was thinking that it would be able to cancel out the -1/-1 counter with the +1/+1 one.
If it is aleady coming back with persist, you should not waste your card
But to answer the question : It will come into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. No -1/-1 counter.
It either comes back with persist or with the Recovery, not a combination.
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I do say that Miraculous Recovery is a great dark horse card. Are there any others that people can think of. They don't have to be amazing. I am just looking for cube able cards out of the norm.
Is Kederekt Leviathan a possible dark horse? I like that it can come back from the dead (which seems the better use out of it) when killed, but it is a ton of mana and an opponent can just go "oh, I'll just replay my threats now." Worth a shot/possible dark horse?
Also, Sunder looks to be a potential dark hose as it's a (pseudo) Armageddon at instant speed for an extra U. Could it matter? I don't know. Still, I'm trying it this weekend.
Blast from the Past is one of my favorite burn spells (which may be overlooked due to its 'un' status) as it's 1RR for deal 2 and draw, deal 2 for 3R flashback. Kicker's too expensive (it's like a weird Skeletonize) and I've never gotten madness+cycling+buyback, but it's like a burn version of Whispers of the Muse. Still, the kicker option's available if you want to madness+cycling+buyback+kicker if you've got a stalled board that's going nowhere with a ton of mana, but to be honest, you should probably be winning at that point.
Thunderblust has been a house and a bag of chips. 7 hasty damage and becomes a non EOT dying Ball Lightning upon its return? A. Maze. Ing. Only Bitterblossom deals with it reliably. And first strikers/pro red guys, Temporal Isolation and the like but still, it's a beast, er, elemental.
Magus of the Future may have a pretty terrible body (2UUU for a 2/3), but the card itself is so amazing that being a probably weaker Future Sight is a-ok in my book. If you don't have Future Sight in your cube put it in. Now. LaPille says that Future Sight is the most powerful card in his (unpowered) cube and I can totally see it. So much card advantage if you untap with it (and in the case of the magus, if he lives.) Just be sure to play your lands off of the top of the deck.
Kederekt Leviathan hit our radar at the pre-release. Upheaval has pulled a few out and this seems like it may be able to do the same. I completely over looked Sunder, I'm gonna have to try that one out. They both seem to be awesome 2hg cards, which my group likes playing.
The unfortunate thing is that the Leviathan can't bounce lands, thus your opponent can replay all of their threats again. It's probably better versus control than aggro, although control can't stop the unearth (unless they Swords to Plowshares or Condemned it.) Right now I'm running Sun Quan, Lord of Wu (a 4/4 that makes my army pretty much unblockable? Sure!) in its place, I'll see how Sun Quan works before deciding if he should get the axe and try the leviathan.
And Sun Quan, Lord of Wu is cheap too! Well sort of for his effect. I think he might be a "better" Guile. The only problem with him is that blue does not have a lot of creatures and so this effect is could be meh. But I don't know I will test him.
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Like you said, Armageddon + 5/4 Flier pretty much means gg.
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When I built my cube I first used Evan Erwin's as a shell, some of the card choices seemed like lazy current type 2 draft cards but I wanted to give everything a shot. In that vein I feel in love with Cloudgoat Ranger, the white siege-gang as he's now referred to. That would be my example of a "Dark Horse" in cube, 4 guys on 1 spell = good times for the caster.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Yea, after hearing what people have been saying about Nether Void here the past few days I think I'm going to have to pick one up. Seems very splashable and playable for most aggressive decks.
Twilight Shepherd has been solid. Big fan of Vigilance and Persist, with the CITP trigger basically just gravy.
Been meaning to try out Rival's Duel, but I'm always hesitant. I'll try to give it a shot today.
Holistic Wisdom seems fine in a more powerful Cube with a solid combo element to it. Every Regrowth spell I've tried other than Regrowth and Restock have been met with "meh" responses since my cube is very combat step oriented (Nostalgic Dreams, All Suns' Dawn, Recollect, etc). Getting something retarded like Ancestral Recall every turn seems ridiculous though.
Palinchron is a solid one. I think most people play him though (if not, they probably should). Even without a combo he's just an excellent control finisher as he can hold off any creature with the bounce ability, or just allow counterspell mana to still be open after his trigger resolves.
Uyo and Kira seem solid, but not sure if they're quite good enough to make the cut in many stacks.
I don't really know how to evaluate Alter outside of a Cube with a mill sub-theme. Seems solid in yours though.
(list not current)
My Cube Google Docs Spreadsheet: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AibgWfz0ukmOdDNhOHlucjcxUi1wVy00NDhLbDUtUlE&hl=en_US#gid=8
(list is always current)
Equilibrium: It makes all your creatures effectively cost 1 more, but the sheer power of this card is often backbreaking.
Maze of Ith: At first glance it seems underwhelming, but it's a solid card that fits into practically any deck.
Old Man of the Sea: Sure he looks good on paper, but I want to stress how much better he one he's on the table. Heck, if all else fails he's a 2/3 for 1UU in blue.
Preacher: See above, though a little out of flavor for white.
Crackdown: WW sorely needs an "oops I win" card, and this is it. More than that it's excellent for control decks that want to stall the board into a white finisher.
Knighthood
Dauthi Embrace
Is there any consensus on Flickerwisp? I'm thinking of replacing Shaman en-Kor with it.
Has anyone else found Woodfall Primus to be good? I really like it in my Cube.
Cheers,
rant
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CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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I tried the Primus not long after shadowmoor but it didn't get much love. I do like that it is extremely versatile, especially in killing things like problematic artifacts, lands, enchantments and planeswalkers, but the 8 mana tag that comes with it hurts a lot, so I took it out.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeDrain Life (It can target creatures individually and you gain life!) Way better than consume spirit
Molder Slug is a beast.
Order of the Whiteclay. Brings back Tarmagoyf and it dominates in WW.
Consume Spirit {X1B} |Sorcery| Spend only black mana on X. / Consume Spirit deals X damage to target creature or player and you gain X life.
so what were you saying ? You can both target only one creature with it. both have the same mana costs and restriction. Consume lets you gain X life, drain deals damage and lets you gain that much life but only a maximum of the life the player or toughness the creature has.
Consume Spirit >>> Drain Life
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered Cube"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeThe 4th edition version of Drain Life makes it so that it's pretty much a black Rolling Thunder in that you can pay BBB and deal 3 damage to one target and BB and deal 2 to another target. I'm personally not too much a fan of that kind of errata, but that's an interesting take on it.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Miraculous Recovery is one of the nice instant reanimators and if I had it, I would add it in my cube.
I don't think there is a nice interaction with Persist in there ..
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeI used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
But to answer the question : It will come into play with a +1/+1 counter on it. No -1/-1 counter.
It either comes back with persist or with the Recovery, not a combination.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeIs Kederekt Leviathan a possible dark horse? I like that it can come back from the dead (which seems the better use out of it) when killed, but it is a ton of mana and an opponent can just go "oh, I'll just replay my threats now." Worth a shot/possible dark horse?
Also, Sunder looks to be a potential dark hose as it's a (pseudo) Armageddon at instant speed for an extra U. Could it matter? I don't know. Still, I'm trying it this weekend.
Blast from the Past is one of my favorite burn spells (which may be overlooked due to its 'un' status) as it's 1RR for deal 2 and draw, deal 2 for 3R flashback. Kicker's too expensive (it's like a weird Skeletonize) and I've never gotten madness+cycling+buyback, but it's like a burn version of Whispers of the Muse. Still, the kicker option's available if you want to madness+cycling+buyback+kicker if you've got a stalled board that's going nowhere with a ton of mana, but to be honest, you should probably be winning at that point.
Thunderblust has been a house and a bag of chips. 7 hasty damage and becomes a non EOT dying Ball Lightning upon its return? A. Maze. Ing. Only Bitterblossom deals with it reliably. And first strikers/pro red guys, Temporal Isolation and the like but still, it's a beast, er, elemental.
Magus of the Future may have a pretty terrible body (2UUU for a 2/3), but the card itself is so amazing that being a probably weaker Future Sight is a-ok in my book. If you don't have Future Sight in your cube put it in. Now. LaPille says that Future Sight is the most powerful card in his (unpowered) cube and I can totally see it. So much card advantage if you untap with it (and in the case of the magus, if he lives.) Just be sure to play your lands off of the top of the deck.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)