Great article as always man.. Look forward to them every set.
As a fastbond fanboy, I'm particularly excited for the DFC's as they fix one of the problems with building around fastbond.
You really want to play 18+ lands to combo off, but it's tough to get enough flexible mana sinks to justify having so many mana sources.. especially with the majority of ramp in cube being creature based.
Now these cards are big mana pay off AND lands to let you combo into a draw 7 with fastbond in your opener.
I’m up to 25 cards from this set after revisiting the pathway lands. I can’t convince myself to jam the UB one yet, since it tends to be a slower color combo. I also haven’t figured out what I’d cut for Hagra Mauling.
Color combo is slower, but untapped fixing is the bee's knees. Mauling's a cool card. I think it's the most fringe-y of my MDFC includes, but I'm still stoked to have access to it. It's cool.
Well, it does say "X or less" So..you can still steal moxen with this guy without too much difficulty if..you're into that type of thing.
Good write up, thanks as always.
Oh I know I can steal Moxen, but I have to pay 3 mana to do it instead of 2. If the X in the kicker could be xero, I could take 'em for less. The greed is real.
Great article as always man.. Look forward to them every set.
As a fastbond fanboy, I'm particularly excited for the DFC's as they fix one of the problems with building around fastbond.
You really want to play 18+ lands to combo off, but it's tough to get enough flexible mana sinks to justify having so many mana sources.. especially with the majority of ramp in cube being creature based.
Now these cards are big mana pay off AND lands to let you combo into a draw 7 with fastbond in your opener.
Works well with the oracles and the coursers etc.
Glad you liked the article.
And ya, there's a bunch of cool Oracle/Courser kinds of shenanigans that showed up with this set. Skyfisher/Meloku stuff too. And even Flickerwisp! Can kill off some of the opponent's MDFC lands...
Awesome article as always! Only surprise was that Sea Gate Restoration ended up so low--I figured you were going to grade all of the mythic MDFC lands as stone cold 360 staples. Looks like only 3 or 4 are--which is still outrageous.
Can't wait to give the set a whirl. I think I might be the only person on the internet with a small cube that's excited to play Akoum Hellhound.
Awesome article as always! Only surprise was that Sea Gate Restoration ended up so low--I figured you were going to grade all of the mythic MDFC lands as stone cold 360 staples. Looks like only 3 or 4 are--which is still outrageous.
Can't wait to give the set a whirl. I think I might be the only person on the internet with a small cube that's excited to play Akoum Hellhound.
Glad you liked it!
I'm also playing the Hellhound in my cube, but I think you either need a high density of Fetch Lands (maybe even multiples) or support from a Loam-esque theme in order for it to really shine. But a red Steppe Lynx is a fine creature anyways, so there's nothing wrong with the Hellhound at all. Like I said, it's in my cube as we speak.
Would you mind dropping a list of the cards not in your Top 20 that still made your cube in this thread?
Cheers,
rant
I believe it's Kargan Intimidator & Skyclave Relic (+ Akoum Hellhound & Fearless Fledgling being tested in an aggro-Loam package) that are the 4 cards I'm cubing with that didn't make it into the article. It makes for 29 total cards ...but remember that cards 21-25 are the other 5 Pathway Lands that all got rolled up into one slot.
I'm currently running the 10 man, 5 cycle, 5 canopy, and 20 utility lands (plus the normal 30 lands sac, shock, dual) in my 580 cube.
Should i just start cuting bad man lands and cycle lands for the new pathways?
Glad you liked it!
I like these more than the Bicycle Lands. I'm still pretty big on Man Lands, so those would be harder cuts for me. That may mean that you only get 2/6 for your cube, since Horizon Lands are available to W/G. But I'd definitely test these ones out and see how they do. If your group likes them in U/B and R/G, consider expanding which ones you use.
Great Right up, I think I would rank Jwari Disruption and Jace Mirror mage in opposite spots though. Small cubes like mine still run Jace Beleren as the 3 cmc blue planeswalker (I don't support combo so not interested in Narset as much). So this is a + switch in my opinion. I don't think my cube has a cut for Jwari right now though and so it wont make it in my cube.
That's fair. The structure of every cube is going to be different. But if I could only play one, I think I'd be leaning towards Jwari Disruption myself. But of course, they're very different roles.
Yikes, GOAT of Magic sets or what? It's going to take me forever to figure out which cards to include. As always thanks for the write up. I hold off on looking at new sets until you post these reviews.
Ya, the set's pretty fantastic. One of the best we've seen. We'll see how the MDFCs perform long term, and see if an even wider net needs to be cast to bring more of them into the cube. It's a real possibility...
Thanks for all the work you put in doing the previews and writing this primer! Your work in the cube community is truly respected and should be cherished! I always look forward to this every set. Anyway, thanks again, truly appreciate your contributions and whenever someone asks what cube list to look at I refer them to you as that’s what my cube is based on.
This set is bonkers! I don’t know if I’m as sold on the tap land MDFC’s for vintage cube at 540. You really don’t want to play taplands at that power level, and is a significant cost. The only taplands I play are either 4/5 color support lands like Grand Coliseum, Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse, and Fabled Passage* (the last three also help add shuffle effects) or the mans lands Faerie Conclave, Treetop Village, Celestial Colonnade, Raging Ravine, and Creeping Tar Pit. The spell side of the MDFC’s to me has to be at parity with what a man land brings. I could also look at a land that also doubles as a spell effect like Blast Zone (ratchet bomb lite), Karakas (plains with huge upside), or Maze of Ith (remove an attacker every turn from combat, but can’t be used for mana so is basically a spell land). Looking at these is a fun way to compare what I’m willing to play attached to a tap land.
Also I think the only MDFC bolt land I’m not going play is Sea Gate Restoration. If it was an instant I would have, but it just seems like it will be a bolt land 99% of the time and if that’s the case a bad island is hard to justify.
Thanks for the kind words. Glad you enjoyed the article!
I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment of the MDFCs. You don't want to play them as taplands. But it's better than losing to mana screw. So if you're playing a tapland instead of playing a spell, it could very well be saving you from losing a game. Or at the very least, giving you a chance to come back in a game that another non-land spell wouldn't do for you in that same situation. Again, I plan to test the taplands as spells when deckbuilding for this very purpose. The flexibility of the boltlands makes me more willing to have them replace lands during deckbuilding. The primer at the beginning of the article explains why.
Thanks once again for doing these. You do such a great service to the community by writing the Previews.
Very surprised to not see Kargan Intimidator and Sea Gate Stormcaller and surprised to see Hagra Mauling and Roil Eruption on this list. Intimidator looks like a better red 2-drop than a few that are commonly run. Stormcaller has a really high ceiling by pairing it with Recall, Walk, or a Tutor.
Cheers,
rant
Yah they're not slam dunks for me.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I am curious, is your comparison for Jace, Mirror Mage vs Jace Beleren because of cost or functionality? I have been evaluating this card as a 5cmc planeswalker myself, and weighing it vs some other more expensive blue slots. I like the idea of having both to perhaps help give UX aggro a few more ways to leverage a board and maintain some level of actual CA. Do you think there is room for both in 450 powered lists?
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A little bit of both. And yes, there could be room for both, though I'm not sure if the 3cc "draw/selection" engine is something that needs to be doubled up on. I agree that the main part of the power will come from the kicker ...the comparison to Beleren was largely to demonstrate how good of a baseline it can still have, and that the average "play it and draw with it until it dies" mode is the same expected card advantage as Beleren. Once I figured that out for myself, the swap was pretty easy. And I LOVE Jace Beleren, so that hurts my heart to say.
Thank you so much for this article. I always read your Set (P)reviews too keep track of new cards, as I don't always follow spoiler seasons that closely. But this is the most helpful one yet. Please, keep up the great work!
As the MDFC's have been spoiled, I've fallen a bit between the two major camps it feels, which has made following the discussion and debate very tiring because I both agree and disagree so much with people from both "sides" - the most annoying part being people haven't stuck to debating single cards, but every thread feels like it devolves into discussing the general concept of MDFC's, which hasn't always been very fruitful discussion.
I loved this article, because seeing the different MDFC's ranked and the "cube size" reviews made the whole thing more tangible and clear, at least for me. I very much agree with your rankings of the MDFC's and their relation to other cards. As I mainly run a 360 cube these days, I was wondering how many of the MDFC's I should squeeze in. My plan was to start with the the Red/Green/White Mythics, and the Mammoth. (I would have played the black Mythic if I supported black aggro, but my playgroup was really not jiving with black aggro. I would also run Bala Ged if my environment was powered.) After reading this article, I am a lot more confident that my analysis and plan seems reasonable, so thanks again. I will also reconsider the Black Mythic, though I am not fully convinced on that one in my environment.
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Cubing in Oslo, Norway --- contact me if you want to join in!
Would you mind dropping a list of the cards not in your Top 20 that still made your cube in this thread?
Cheers,
rant
I believe it's Kargan Intimidator & Skyclave Relic (+ Akoum Hellhound & Fearless Fledgling being tested in an aggro-Loam package) that are the 4 cards I'm cubing with that didn't make it into the article. It makes for 29 total cards ...but remember that cards 21-25 are the other 5 Pathway Lands that all got rolled up into one slot.
You can now add Sea Gate Stormcaller to this list as well; I've decided to give it a chance to prove itself.
I'm really looking forward to giving Sea Gate Stormcaller a whirl in my cube. I think there's some potential for broken things and even a baseline of doubling Preordain or Izzet Charm isn't terrible.
I really would like the Enemy Mirage Lands and the rest of the Triome lands to better support 3-4 colors + landfall in a more fair way.
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Draft my cube! (630 cards)
As a fastbond fanboy, I'm particularly excited for the DFC's as they fix one of the problems with building around fastbond.
You really want to play 18+ lands to combo off, but it's tough to get enough flexible mana sinks to justify having so many mana sources.. especially with the majority of ramp in cube being creature based.
Now these cards are big mana pay off AND lands to let you combo into a draw 7 with fastbond in your opener.
Works well with the oracles and the coursers etc.
Last Updated 02/07/24
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Ya, set is super cool. Good cards, fun cards, and flexible cards that will help with deck consistency. I'm stoked.
Color combo is slower, but untapped fixing is the bee's knees. Mauling's a cool card. I think it's the most fringe-y of my MDFC includes, but I'm still stoked to have access to it. It's cool.
You're most welcome. And it was a much longer article than normal. Glad you liked it.
You're welcome! And ya, this set is very cool.
Oh I know I can steal Moxen, but I have to pay 3 mana to do it instead of 2. If the X in the kicker could be xero, I could take 'em for less. The greed is real.
You're most welcome. Thanks for taking the time to comment!
Glad you liked the article.
And ya, there's a bunch of cool Oracle/Courser kinds of shenanigans that showed up with this set. Skyfisher/Meloku stuff too. And even Flickerwisp! Can kill off some of the opponent's MDFC lands...
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Can't wait to give the set a whirl. I think I might be the only person on the internet with a small cube that's excited to play Akoum Hellhound.
My Cube on Cube Tutor
Glad you liked it!
I'm also playing the Hellhound in my cube, but I think you either need a high density of Fetch Lands (maybe even multiples) or support from a Loam-esque theme in order for it to really shine. But a red Steppe Lynx is a fine creature anyways, so there's nothing wrong with the Hellhound at all. Like I said, it's in my cube as we speak.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Would you mind dropping a list of the cards not in your Top 20 that still made your cube in this thread?
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
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I'm currently running the 10 man, 5 cycle, 5 canopy, and 20 utility lands (plus the normal 30 lands sac, shock, dual) in my 580 cube.
Should i just start cuting bad man lands and cycle lands for the new pathways?
I believe it's Kargan Intimidator & Skyclave Relic (+ Akoum Hellhound & Fearless Fledgling being tested in an aggro-Loam package) that are the 4 cards I'm cubing with that didn't make it into the article. It makes for 29 total cards ...but remember that cards 21-25 are the other 5 Pathway Lands that all got rolled up into one slot.
Glad you liked it!
I like these more than the Bicycle Lands. I'm still pretty big on Man Lands, so those would be harder cuts for me. That may mean that you only get 2/6 for your cube, since Horizon Lands are available to W/G. But I'd definitely test these ones out and see how they do. If your group likes them in U/B and R/G, consider expanding which ones you use.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
This set is bonkers! I don’t know if I’m as sold on the tap land MDFC’s for vintage cube at 540. You really don’t want to play taplands at that power level, and is a significant cost. The only taplands I play are either 4/5 color support lands like Grand Coliseum, Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse, and Fabled Passage* (the last three also help add shuffle effects) or the mans lands Faerie Conclave, Treetop Village, Celestial Colonnade, Raging Ravine, and Creeping Tar Pit. The spell side of the MDFC’s to me has to be at parity with what a man land brings. I could also look at a land that also doubles as a spell effect like Blast Zone (ratchet bomb lite), Karakas (plains with huge upside), or Maze of Ith (remove an attacker every turn from combat, but can’t be used for mana so is basically a spell land). Looking at these is a fun way to compare what I’m willing to play attached to a tap land.
Also I think the only MDFC bolt land I’m not going play is Sea Gate Restoration. If it was an instant I would have, but it just seems like it will be a bolt land 99% of the time and if that’s the case a bad island is hard to justify.
I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment of the MDFCs. You don't want to play them as taplands. But it's better than losing to mana screw. So if you're playing a tapland instead of playing a spell, it could very well be saving you from losing a game. Or at the very least, giving you a chance to come back in a game that another non-land spell wouldn't do for you in that same situation. Again, I plan to test the taplands as spells when deckbuilding for this very purpose. The flexibility of the boltlands makes me more willing to have them replace lands during deckbuilding. The primer at the beginning of the article explains why.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Yah they're not slam dunks for me.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Thank you so much for this article. I always read your Set (P)reviews too keep track of new cards, as I don't always follow spoiler seasons that closely. But this is the most helpful one yet. Please, keep up the great work!
As the MDFC's have been spoiled, I've fallen a bit between the two major camps it feels, which has made following the discussion and debate very tiring because I both agree and disagree so much with people from both "sides" - the most annoying part being people haven't stuck to debating single cards, but every thread feels like it devolves into discussing the general concept of MDFC's, which hasn't always been very fruitful discussion.
I loved this article, because seeing the different MDFC's ranked and the "cube size" reviews made the whole thing more tangible and clear, at least for me. I very much agree with your rankings of the MDFC's and their relation to other cards. As I mainly run a 360 cube these days, I was wondering how many of the MDFC's I should squeeze in. My plan was to start with the the Red/Green/White Mythics, and the Mammoth. (I would have played the black Mythic if I supported black aggro, but my playgroup was really not jiving with black aggro. I would also run Bala Ged if my environment was powered.) After reading this article, I am a lot more confident that my analysis and plan seems reasonable, so thanks again. I will also reconsider the Black Mythic, though I am not fully convinced on that one in my environment.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
You can now add Sea Gate Stormcaller to this list as well; I've decided to give it a chance to prove itself.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
- Allied Mirage Fetch Lands.
- Ikoria Triome lands.
- Enemy Canopy Lands.
I really would like the Enemy Mirage Lands and the rest of the Triome lands to better support 3-4 colors + landfall in a more fair way.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i