My playgroup and I has just develop a new cube draft method that seems very interesting to use when you want to do a quick one versus one. We have tested it about 8 times so far and it seems to work pretty well. For that reason, I wanted to share the method with you guys, so you can give us some additional feedback in order to improve it. Some more testing results would also be appreciated. So there it is, I introduce you to the brand new Poker Draft Method!
First of all, I just wanted to say that, like I've mentionned before, this method has been develop in a 1v1 perspective. And results has shown so far that it seems to be one of the most interesting method in order to cube that way. Why? Because it is fast and simple. Only 13 very simple steps and you are all set. Also, all types of synergies, strategies and archetypes seems to be viable with it, even the narrowest one, like Tinker decks for example. Even aggro does feel open if the draft shows you that path early. All in all, it feels like a great way to do a quick cube session with a friend. So let's start with a basic description of the method basis and we will follow with the step descriptions afterward.
Number of players : 2 to 4
Number of cards in each player's final pool : 50
Game format : 40 cards deck + Sideboard
Amount of time needed to draft : 15-20 minutes + Deckbuilding
Average number of cards seen : 150-175 by player
Suggested cube size : 360-630
Inspired by : Five-Card Draw Poker
Step 1
Make the cube random by shuffling it good.
Step 2
Make 4 to 6 approximatively equal piles with the whole cube. Number of cards in each don’t matter at all.
Step 3
Get ready to draft.
Step 4
Player A pick up exactly 5 card from one single pile. That player then has something that looks like a Five-Card Draw poker hand.
Step 5
Player A may then remove from the draft any number of cards from the 5 he has taken and pick up that many cards from one single pile again.
Step 6
Player A do the same again, by basically repeating step 5 once again.
Step 7
Player A put the 5 remaining cards into his pool.
Step 8
Player B redo step 4 to 7.
Step 9
Any player may cut each of the card piles, like you would cut a deck for example, in order to give every cube card a chance to be select during the draft session.
Step 10
Player A and Player B do it all over again, by repeating step 4 to 9, until they have a complete 50 cards pool.
Step 11
Each player, starting with Player A, may remove as many cards in his pool from the draft, pick up that many cards from one single pile and put them into his pool.
Step 12
Each player, starting with Player A, redo step 11 once again.
Step 13
Each player build his deck with his final 50 cards pool.
Keep in mind the number of playables you have at any stage of the draft.
Take the time to stack your pool a few times during the draft to make sure you can identity your curve's needs.
It's good to start the draft by going wide and stay open for incoming options. Then you could restrict your selections later on in order to find what you need.
Colorless cards are really important in that draft format because they are generally easier to include into any deck.
Versatile off-color cards, including gold ones, may be important to keep in order to splash for them later on.
At some point, lands are less important in that draft format. You may want to give away some of them at step 11 or step 12 in order to find playables.
If you like to have a lot of sideboard options, this format may not be for you. Retains 4 to 8 reasonable options is something easily achievable though.
Like I said, all your feedbacks are welcome and I hope I can hear results from you as well! I trully recommend you to try this method out! Trust me, you won't be disappointed because it does represent a lot of fun!
Step 9 seems unnecessary. Unless I'm missing something you aren't actually giving all cards a chance to be selected you're just shaking up which cards are close enough to the top to be drawn. Since they're all face down and unknown anyway, that seems fruitless.
I do like the idea though. I'm always on the lookout for new draft formats.
Yeah you are right, Step 9 can easily be pass without affecting the draft at all. We just like to shake things up a little bit by doing it. It's all random already, I know, but it feels even more when we do. In fact, we do it at each multiple of 10, not every turn. I just wrote it that way to make it simple. I may just remove it.
However, I'm happy that you consider trying it. I trully recommend you to try it next time you're going to cube. Like I said, really fast, really simple, really fun. At 450 size, I've no doubt it's going to work just fine.
We did two Poker Draft trials yesterday, and it went very well.
First, I've got a fairly nice Sultai reanimate deck, and went against a Bant midrange deck. My opponent didn't got a good mana base, and relied on his green fixing and Terramorphic+Crucible combo.
The second try had three players. They ended up with two very different Esper control decks (one more blue/artifacts splashing white and black), and one Boros aggro deck. Going by the amount of unused cards, we could have tried four players at 540.
In the end, this draft format ends up being a more dynamic sealed variant, because in the end none of your choices really affects what the other players draft. You can do a Poker Draft by giving each player an equal part of the cube and let them do the rest alone, without touching the other player's potential card pool.
The highest possible number of cards a player needs in this format is 150. In practice no player will replace all 50 cards twice, so 120 cards is more than enough for each player. In our two drafts, the deck that used more cards was the Boros aggro one, drafting or discarding a little over 100 cards.
The idea of letting each player does his little poker draft seems valid. Maybe it's not an accurate thinking, but I just don't like the idea that some of the cards wouldn't be available for some players because they won't feature in their respective cube portion. But it's all random, so whatever. Proceed separately also makes the method even more faster, so it's a bonus if you like it that way.
No, we didn't actually draft separately. We did mostly like you listed, except the part of shuffling midway because everything is random already anyway.
It was just a way to visualize how things actually go. It's useful to know how much of the cube was actually drafted, how many cards you need per player. Further drafts today (four players this time: a Golgari reanimation, an Izzet spell matters tempo, another Izzet deck that was more artifact ramp, and a Rakdos aggro) indicates the average number of cards each player drafts or discards is slightly above 100 (the four players used a total of 407 cards out of 450 in the cube).
It also helps to understand how you could have two player with very similar decks (the two Esper control decks in our second draft), because this format is effectively more alike Sealed than the Wiston/Winchester variant it appears to be.
Very nice article, i was looking for something like that, most of times (like 80% of my cube sessions) i do a 2 player draft with my 360 cube, usually winston, grid or winchester draft. I certainly will give this draft a try, probably tonight, it seems very fun. i'll give my feedbacks as soon as i try it
I like this. A lot of times we want to draft but don't have the 40-60 minutes required to do a full glimpse draft. So we play sealed a good bit, but always feel kind of underwhelmed with the decks sealed produces. This format looks like it will be a lot faster than glimpse drafting and produce stronger decks than just doing a standard 6 pack sealed. I'm pumped to try it.
Just to clarify:
When players are drafting their 5 card hands they can pitch any number of cards twice? As in I can take 5 cards, pitch 3/draw 3, then pitch 4/draw 4, and the resulting 5 card "hand" is what I add to my draft pool? Then once both players have 50 card draft pools they can choose to pitch as many cards as they want and draw that many again, twice? If that is the case the maximum cards per player would be higher than 150. In fact it would be 250, right? If I pitch all five twice during each 5 card draft segment, for each 5 cards I keep I'm ditching 10. So by the time I have a 50 card pool I'll have ditched 100 cards and therefore used 150 cards. Then if I pitch all 50 twice I've used another 100 cards. So the max would be 250.
Very nice article, i was looking for something like that, most of times (like 80% of my cube sessions) i do a 2 player draft with my 360 cube, usually winston, grid or winchester draft. I certainly will give this draft a try, probably tonight, it seems very fun. i'll give my feedbacks as soon as i try it
When players are drafting their 5 card hands they can pitch any number of cards twice? As in I can take 5 cards, pitch 3/draw 3, then pitch 4/draw 4, and the resulting 5 card "hand" is what I add to my draft pool? Then once both players have 50 card draft pools they can choose to pitch as many cards as they want and draw that many again, twice?
Yeah, that's right. And you end up with a pool that contains 50 magic cards.
If that is the case the maximum cards per player would be higher than 150.
You're also right about the maximum number of cards seen by player being higher than 150. In fact, it is 250, like you said. But, in my draft basis section, I'm refering to the average number of cards. Let's take a look at a linear example. You look at your first 5 cards. You pitch 3 and draw 3. Then, you pitch 2 and draw 2 again. You have now take a look at 10 different cards. Repeat the process 10 times and you will then have seen 100 cards. Once you have your 50 cards pool, pitch 30 cards and draw 30. Then pitch 20 and draw 20. This way, you end up seeing a total of 150 different cards. I think this is a typical and average scenario you can encouter when poker drafting. Can be a little bit less, can be a lot more.
With the results we compile so far, we realise that most of the time, a Poker Draft will be able to show you about 150 to 175 different cards.
So I did this with the wife yesterday (except apparently I missed step 11-12) and it was pretty cool. In particular, we have plenty of shuffled cube left over so we can try it again soon.
Also, the "draft" can be done completely asynchronously - I've already put together my next deck, she can build hers whenever she likes so we can more easily fit the matches into our schedule. I like it a lot!
I can't believe we missed that you can pitch the five-card 'hands' twice and the final 50 twice again. We were doing it only once each time, hence the 'average' of about 100 cards per player per draft. That changes much.
I can't believe we missed that you can pitch the five-card 'hands' twice and the final 50 twice again. We were doing it only once each time, hence the 'average' of about 100 cards per player per draft. That changes much.
Yeah, that may help having better results with the method. Happy cubing!
I had a chance to test this method this weekend. Like someone had said, its like a improved sealed, i've enjoyed very much, it's quick and can provide very solid decks, certainly will be added to my list of draft methods
I had a chance to test this method this weekend. Like someone had said, its like a improved sealed, i've enjoyed very much, it's quick and can provide very solid decks, certainly will be added to my list of draft methods
We had the same experience and enjoyed this method a lot. Also, it's just pleasant. Pitching and drawing cards is like a constantly revolving lotto game. I can see this draft format being a staple for my group moving forward. Thanks for sharing Zetsu!
We had the same experience and enjoyed this method a lot. Also, it's just pleasant. Pitching and drawing cards is like a constantly revolving lotto game. I can see this draft format being a staple for my group moving forward. Thanks for sharing Zetsu!
Are cards that have been rejected ineligible for future players to sift through? I figure the answer is yes, so a person poker drafting solo will have to make sure that their rejects are separated from still "live" chunks of the cube.
Are cards that have been rejected ineligible for future players to sift through? I figure the answer is yes, so a person poker drafting solo will have to make sure that their rejects are separated from still "live" chunks of the cube.
The answer is yes. Rejected cards are remove from the draft. Let's take a look at Step 5.
Step 5
Player A may then remove from the draft any number of cards from the 5 he has taken and pick up that many cards from one single pile again.
My son and I had a blast with this. Though we ended up cutting out steps 11-13... there just wasn't any need for them. With 50 cards, selected in this manner, we found that we already had plenty of playables. Anyway... kudos!
It's really nice to see that this technic also works for your playgroup!
About the draws, the speed was definitly something we were looking for when I've decide to gather for a new draft method. We were also seeking for a method that, while being fast, can show you a lot of card options and can make powerful decks. A method that can be effectively used by only 2 players was also one of our goals.
Another aspect of it that I found interesting is that, contrary to what it may looks like, this draft format feels really skill testing. You have to read the draft properly to maximise the power level of the available decks you can create with the cards you saw at each draw-5. You can create almost whatever you want, but only few paths will bring you to a very powerful and synergic pile of cards. And that path is very different at any shot you give to the method.
Using Thread-Necromacy: Is anyone still playing/interested in this format? My wife and me played it a couple of times, but we changed the rules so the discarded cards are not removed from the game but are eather put back on top of the pile or are split and one half goes on top the other one underneath. So you get more informations about your opponent and also have more "draft" feeling.
Any ideas/thoughts/recommendatiosn?
Greetz
Just saw this thread and I have to say: I can't wait to try it. I play a lot of 1v1 cube and have a custom made method by myself, but from time to time it is nice to try something new.
But: How do you read the draft? You wrote about this point on different occations. As far as I can see, you are not able to read anything, because it should be completely random witch cards you get. You are not effecting the other players draft and you are not effected by anything. So how should there be an open line to an aggro deck or anything like that? You could draft completely alone and there would be no difference. Your statements, in combination with you points that you cut the stacks during the draft give me the impression that you do not have a completely randomized cube when you start.
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First of all, I just wanted to say that, like I've mentionned before, this method has been develop in a 1v1 perspective. And results has shown so far that it seems to be one of the most interesting method in order to cube that way. Why? Because it is fast and simple. Only 13 very simple steps and you are all set. Also, all types of synergies, strategies and archetypes seems to be viable with it, even the narrowest one, like Tinker decks for example. Even aggro does feel open if the draft shows you that path early. All in all, it feels like a great way to do a quick cube session with a friend. So let's start with a basic description of the method basis and we will follow with the step descriptions afterward.
Number of cards in each player's final pool : 50
Game format : 40 cards deck + Sideboard
Amount of time needed to draft : 15-20 minutes + Deckbuilding
Average number of cards seen : 150-175 by player
Suggested cube size : 360-630
Inspired by : Five-Card Draw Poker
Make the cube random by shuffling it good.
Step 2
Make 4 to 6 approximatively equal piles with the whole cube. Number of cards in each don’t matter at all.
Step 3
Get ready to draft.
Step 4
Player A pick up exactly 5 card from one single pile. That player then has something that looks like a Five-Card Draw poker hand.
Step 5
Player A may then remove from the draft any number of cards from the 5 he has taken and pick up that many cards from one single pile again.
Step 6
Player A do the same again, by basically repeating step 5 once again.
Step 7
Player A put the 5 remaining cards into his pool.
Step 8
Player B redo step 4 to 7.
Step 9
Any player may cut each of the card piles, like you would cut a deck for example, in order to give every cube card a chance to be select during the draft session.
Step 10
Player A and Player B do it all over again, by repeating step 4 to 9, until they have a complete 50 cards pool.
Step 11
Each player, starting with Player A, may remove as many cards in his pool from the draft, pick up that many cards from one single pile and put them into his pool.
Step 12
Each player, starting with Player A, redo step 11 once again.
Step 13
Each player build his deck with his final 50 cards pool.
Like I said, all your feedbacks are welcome and I hope I can hear results from you as well! I trully recommend you to try this method out! Trust me, you won't be disappointed because it does represent a lot of fun!
Enjoy the game!
Zetsu_Sensei
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
I do like the idea though. I'm always on the lookout for new draft formats.
However, I'm happy that you consider trying it. I trully recommend you to try it next time you're going to cube. Like I said, really fast, really simple, really fun. At 450 size, I've no doubt it's going to work just fine.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
First, I've got a fairly nice Sultai reanimate deck, and went against a Bant midrange deck. My opponent didn't got a good mana base, and relied on his green fixing and Terramorphic+Crucible combo.
The second try had three players. They ended up with two very different Esper control decks (one more blue/artifacts splashing white and black), and one Boros aggro deck. Going by the amount of unused cards, we could have tried four players at 540.
In the end, this draft format ends up being a more dynamic sealed variant, because in the end none of your choices really affects what the other players draft. You can do a Poker Draft by giving each player an equal part of the cube and let them do the rest alone, without touching the other player's potential card pool.
The highest possible number of cards a player needs in this format is 150. In practice no player will replace all 50 cards twice, so 120 cards is more than enough for each player. In our two drafts, the deck that used more cards was the Boros aggro one, drafting or discarding a little over 100 cards.
The idea of letting each player does his little poker draft seems valid. Maybe it's not an accurate thinking, but I just don't like the idea that some of the cards wouldn't be available for some players because they won't feature in their respective cube portion. But it's all random, so whatever. Proceed separately also makes the method even more faster, so it's a bonus if you like it that way.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
It was just a way to visualize how things actually go. It's useful to know how much of the cube was actually drafted, how many cards you need per player. Further drafts today (four players this time: a Golgari reanimation, an Izzet spell matters tempo, another Izzet deck that was more artifact ramp, and a Rakdos aggro) indicates the average number of cards each player drafts or discards is slightly above 100 (the four players used a total of 407 cards out of 450 in the cube).
It also helps to understand how you could have two player with very similar decks (the two Esper control decks in our second draft), because this format is effectively more alike Sealed than the Wiston/Winchester variant it appears to be.
Just to clarify:
When players are drafting their 5 card hands they can pitch any number of cards twice? As in I can take 5 cards, pitch 3/draw 3, then pitch 4/draw 4, and the resulting 5 card "hand" is what I add to my draft pool? Then once both players have 50 card draft pools they can choose to pitch as many cards as they want and draw that many again, twice? If that is the case the maximum cards per player would be higher than 150. In fact it would be 250, right? If I pitch all five twice during each 5 card draft segment, for each 5 cards I keep I'm ditching 10. So by the time I have a 50 card pool I'll have ditched 100 cards and therefore used 150 cards. Then if I pitch all 50 twice I've used another 100 cards. So the max would be 250.
Nice! I'll be looking forward to read them.
Yeah, that's right. And you end up with a pool that contains 50 magic cards.
You're also right about the maximum number of cards seen by player being higher than 150. In fact, it is 250, like you said. But, in my draft basis section, I'm refering to the average number of cards. Let's take a look at a linear example. You look at your first 5 cards. You pitch 3 and draw 3. Then, you pitch 2 and draw 2 again. You have now take a look at 10 different cards. Repeat the process 10 times and you will then have seen 100 cards. Once you have your 50 cards pool, pitch 30 cards and draw 30. Then pitch 20 and draw 20. This way, you end up seeing a total of 150 different cards. I think this is a typical and average scenario you can encouter when poker drafting. Can be a little bit less, can be a lot more.
With the results we compile so far, we realise that most of the time, a Poker Draft will be able to show you about 150 to 175 different cards.
Zetsu's Cube on CubeTutor.com
Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Also, the "draft" can be done completely asynchronously - I've already put together my next deck, she can build hers whenever she likes so we can more easily fit the matches into our schedule. I like it a lot!
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
Akrasia, a Custom 360 Cube
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Yeah, that may help having better results with the method. Happy cubing!
Awesome! Wasn't aware of this thread.
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Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
We had the same experience and enjoyed this method a lot. Also, it's just pleasant. Pitching and drawing cards is like a constantly revolving lotto game. I can see this draft format being a staple for my group moving forward. Thanks for sharing Zetsu!
Happy to hear that! Was a pleasure!
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Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
The answer is yes. Rejected cards are remove from the draft. Let's take a look at Step 5.
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Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
About the draws, the speed was definitly something we were looking for when I've decide to gather for a new draft method. We were also seeking for a method that, while being fast, can show you a lot of card options and can make powerful decks. A method that can be effectively used by only 2 players was also one of our goals.
Another aspect of it that I found interesting is that, contrary to what it may looks like, this draft format feels really skill testing. You have to read the draft properly to maximise the power level of the available decks you can create with the cards you saw at each draw-5. You can create almost whatever you want, but only few paths will bring you to a very powerful and synergic pile of cards. And that path is very different at any shot you give to the method.
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Zetsu's Ebay MTG Online Store
Zetsu's Poker Draft Method
Any ideas/thoughts/recommendatiosn?
Greetz
But: How do you read the draft? You wrote about this point on different occations. As far as I can see, you are not able to read anything, because it should be completely random witch cards you get. You are not effecting the other players draft and you are not effected by anything. So how should there be an open line to an aggro deck or anything like that? You could draft completely alone and there would be no difference. Your statements, in combination with you points that you cut the stacks during the draft give me the impression that you do not have a completely randomized cube when you start.