Library is absurd card advantage, you don't need to aggro out your opponent to win with library. If I could go turn 1 nacatl that I knew would be a 3/3 next turn or a library, I would still choose the library every single time because the card advantage aspect that it gives you is completely bonkers because you never run out of threats unless library is destroyed. Sol ring in aggro depends on your deck overall. If you have lots of cards that have 1 or less generic mana symbols, I can see the ring not making the cut. However, any deck I play will have library in it regardless of my strategy because it is literally like having a jace, the mind sculptor on turn 2 and how do you lose when you get a turn 2 jace, the mind sculptor. It's pretty hard to lose unless your draws are really poor or your deck is a poorly constructed one or it's just a bad deck + library.
I agree with wtwlf on his analysis of jitte, library, and sol ring though jitte is a boss in aggro, sol ring in mid range/control, and library in control as the places where those cards perform the best however all the cards are good in all the archetypes except maybe jitte if your deck is creature light.
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There is no way I would pass on a Sol Ring for my aggro deck - that is absurd. Aggro decks never curve out at 1XX spells, they curve out at 4 drop bombs. If your aggro deck is curving out at 1XX spells, you are very likely to lose, and that is certainly not an optimal build. Red, black, and white 4 drops are so crucial to building a good aggro deck. My green aggro decks (if green is the strong color) have to curve out at 5 and are a little slower. I actually wouldn't expect this coming from some of the Cube 'gurus' since I consider this to be pretty basic Cube strategy.
The OP should ask for a top 10 list of 'cards you are most excited to see in a pack'. I'm curious to see what peoples pet cards would be disregarding power levels. I love cards like ajani vengeant, thrun, and flickerwisp but couldn't include them in this list
That would be cool. I love me some BBE p1p1 but I wouldn't call it one of the 20 best of all time.
I might not play Sol Ring in an aggro deck w/o weapons with not much over CMC 3, but that deck would suck anyways so that's irrelevant
There are decks to not run Sol Ring in, and decks to not run Library in (very, very, very few, IMO) but these are not really worth talking about, because they are fairly small corner cases.
Mana Crypt definitely has a more relevant drawback. I have yet to lose directly due to a crypt flip, but I have been close, and it has affected plays on occasion. The worst part about the card is the luck factor. If it was just 3 damage per two turns, it would be far better.
There is no way I would pass on a Sol Ring for my aggro deck - that is absurd. Aggro decks never curve out at 1XX spells, they curve out at 4 drop bombs. If your aggro deck is curving out at 1XX spells, you are very likely to lose, and that is certainly not an optimal build. Red, black, and white 4 drops are so crucial to building a good aggro deck. My green aggro decks (if green is the strong color) have to curve out at 5 and are a little slower. I actually wouldn't expect this coming from some of the Cube 'gurus' since I consider this to be pretty basic Cube strategy.
I think you're plain wrong. Aggro decks will have 4-drop curve toppers, but maybe only 1 or 2. Some may not have any. In those decks, you don't have enough targets to spend your Sol Ring mana on, and passing on T1 pressure for ramp is a bad idea if it's not followed up w/ a T2 bomb 4-drop.
Every once in a great while, an aggro deck may contain a 5cc card, but that's definitely not the norm.
Running an aggro deck with as few 4+cc cards in it is what I'd consider to be "basic cube strategy" for aggro decks. I'd be surprised to see any "gurus" that don't understand that some cards aren't played in every deck.
Half of our aggro decks would pass on Sol Ring. I'm sorry if you don't agree, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
I think you're plain wrong. Aggro decks will have 4-drop curve toppers, but maybe only 1 or 2. Some may not have any. In those decks, you don't have enough targets to spend your Sol Ring mana on, and passing on T1 pressure for ramp is a bad idea if it's not followed up w/ a T2 bomb 4-drop.
Every once in a great while, an aggro deck may contain a 5cc card, but that's definitely not the norm.
Running an aggro deck with as few 4+cc cards in it is what I'd consider to be "basic cube strategy" for aggro decks. I'd be surprised to see any "gurus" that don't understand that some cards aren't played in every deck.
Half of our aggro decks would pass on Sol Ring. I'm sorry if you don't agree, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
Which is to say you have 1-2 decks EVERY draft that don't want sol ring? There are definitely decks that don't want it, but I really don't think they show up every draft.
There are decks to not run Sol Ring in, and decks to not run Library in (very, very, very few, IMO) but these are not really worth talking about, because they are fairly small corner cases.
Mana Crypt definitely has a more relevant drawback. I have yet to lose directly due to a crypt flip, but I have been close, and it has affected plays on occasion. The worst part about the card is the luck factor. If it was just 3 damage per two turns, it would be far better.
I've definitely had people die to their mana crypts against me and I've done it on occasion. The problem with mana crypt is that it doesn't want to go into the control decks that really want mana acceleration.
Which is to say you have 1-2 decks EVERY draft that don't want sol ring? There are definitely decks that don't want it, but I really don't think they show up every draft.
Probably one deck out of every six. If the average 6-man draft has 2 aggro decks, 2 mid-range decks and 2 control decks (which is typical) one of the two aggro decks would pass on the Ring. The other aggro deck will be slightly more top heavy, perhaps running 3-4 4-drops, maybe a 5-drop and multiple 3-drops with 2 in the cost... and those decks will certainly windmill slam that Sol Ring. The aggro decks that meet that description would rather have the Crypt because it doesn't cost you your T1 play and the damage drawback isn't particularly significant outside of the mirror.
I don't think that someone has ever picked a Sol Ring and left it in the sideboard
Right. Nobody has done that here either. If you pick the Sol Ring early, you build a deck that can abuse it, because it's one of the best cards in the cube. For the same reason you don't snag Jitte P1P1 and go on to draft a 2-3 creature control deck that doesn't play it. Or draft an Armageddon and play control.
Right. Nobody has done that here either. If you pick the Sol Ring early, you build a deck that can abuse it, because it's one of the best cards in the cube. For the same reason you don't snag Jitte P1P1 and go on to draft a 2-3 creature control deck that doesn't play it. Or draft an Armageddon and play control.
I think I have drafted a jitte (and definitely I've done with swords and tangle wire) and then not played it. But that's cause I almost never play aggro.
Jitte has been drafted and left in sideboard multiple time here. If you FPFP Jitte and get passed Mana Drain, Upeabal and Capsize, then open Jace TMS in your second booster, it's the right call to not force a creature deck.
Correct. But the plan when you snag Jitte is not to build a creatureless control deck. If that's what happens, it happens, but it's a matter of circumstance, not plan.
Tyler Manti: "I'll attack worth these"
Bobbert: "I'll play voices from the void"
Tyler Manti: "That's a sorcery"
Bobbert: "Oh, well then I'll block with it"
Tyler Manti: "..."
This is the only category I don't feel comfortable voting on. I haven't played many powered cube drafts, and I feel like it's mostly ranking the power.
HM: Upheavel (how did that not make in there? Costing 6 mana is a big factor I think), Winter Orb, Survival of the Fittest, Sulferic Vortex,
This is getting harder and harder every year it seems. The top 8 was pretty easy, but the second part was a lot harder. I am not a 100% sure I made the right choices but they are all pretty awesome.
The OP should ask for a top 10 list of 'cards you are most excited to see in a pack'. I'm curious to see what peoples pet cards would be disregarding power levels. I love cards like ajani vengeant, thrun, and flickerwisp but couldn't include them in this list
I feel like this is a bit different from a power ranking, but sounds pretty intresting for just another project to take a poll from
I agree with wtwlf on his analysis of jitte, library, and sol ring though jitte is a boss in aggro, sol ring in mid range/control, and library in control as the places where those cards perform the best however all the cards are good in all the archetypes except maybe jitte if your deck is creature light.
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That would be cool. I love me some BBE p1p1 but I wouldn't call it one of the 20 best of all time.
I might not play Sol Ring in an aggro deck w/o weapons with not much over CMC 3, but that deck would suck anyways so that's irrelevant
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Mana Crypt definitely has a more relevant drawback. I have yet to lose directly due to a crypt flip, but I have been close, and it has affected plays on occasion. The worst part about the card is the luck factor. If it was just 3 damage per two turns, it would be far better.
I think you're plain wrong. Aggro decks will have 4-drop curve toppers, but maybe only 1 or 2. Some may not have any. In those decks, you don't have enough targets to spend your Sol Ring mana on, and passing on T1 pressure for ramp is a bad idea if it's not followed up w/ a T2 bomb 4-drop.
Every once in a great while, an aggro deck may contain a 5cc card, but that's definitely not the norm.
Running an aggro deck with as few 4+cc cards in it is what I'd consider to be "basic cube strategy" for aggro decks. I'd be surprised to see any "gurus" that don't understand that some cards aren't played in every deck.
Half of our aggro decks would pass on Sol Ring. I'm sorry if you don't agree, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Which is to say you have 1-2 decks EVERY draft that don't want sol ring? There are definitely decks that don't want it, but I really don't think they show up every draft.
I've definitely had people die to their mana crypts against me and I've done it on occasion. The problem with mana crypt is that it doesn't want to go into the control decks that really want mana acceleration.
Probably one deck out of every six. If the average 6-man draft has 2 aggro decks, 2 mid-range decks and 2 control decks (which is typical) one of the two aggro decks would pass on the Ring. The other aggro deck will be slightly more top heavy, perhaps running 3-4 4-drops, maybe a 5-drop and multiple 3-drops with 2 in the cost... and those decks will certainly windmill slam that Sol Ring. The aggro decks that meet that description would rather have the Crypt because it doesn't cost you your T1 play and the damage drawback isn't particularly significant outside of the mirror.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Right. Nobody has done that here either. If you pick the Sol Ring early, you build a deck that can abuse it, because it's one of the best cards in the cube. For the same reason you don't snag Jitte P1P1 and go on to draft a 2-3 creature control deck that doesn't play it. Or draft an Armageddon and play control.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
I think I have drafted a jitte (and definitely I've done with swords and tangle wire) and then not played it. But that's cause I almost never play aggro.
Correct. But the plan when you snag Jitte is not to build a creatureless control deck. If that's what happens, it happens, but it's a matter of circumstance, not plan.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Bobbert: "I'll play voices from the void"
Tyler Manti: "That's a sorcery"
Bobbert: "Oh, well then I'll block with it"
Tyler Manti: "..."
K2solbri's 450 Card UN-powered Cube
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=388456
02 Umezawa's Jitte
03 Sol Ring
04 Ancestral Recall
05 Time Walk
06 Black Lotus
07 Mox Diamond
08 Mind Twist
09 ABU Moxen
10 Mana Drain
11 Recurring Nightmare
12 Jace, Memory Adept
13 Jace, the Mind Scupltor
14 Balance
15 Survival of the Fittest
16 Skullclamp
17 Demonic Tutor
18 Maze of Ith
19 Mana Crypt
20 Tinker
02 Library of Alexandria
03 Ancestral Recall
04 Black Lotus
05 Time Walk
06 Umezawa's Jitte
07 ABU Moxen
08 Mind Twist
09 Recurring Nightmare
10 Jace, TMS
11 Armageddon
12 Mana Drain
13 Balance
14 Demonic Tutor
15 Eternal Witness
16 Mana Crypt
17 Bitterblossom
18 Mox Diamond
19 Tinker
20 Skullclamp
HM: Upheavel (how did that not make in there? Costing 6 mana is a big factor I think), Winter Orb, Survival of the Fittest, Sulferic Vortex,
This is getting harder and harder every year it seems. The top 8 was pretty easy, but the second part was a lot harder. I am not a 100% sure I made the right choices but they are all pretty awesome.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
EDIT:
I feel like this is a bit different from a power ranking, but sounds pretty intresting for just another project to take a poll from
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