Now that the set's been spoiled, and we know the composition of packs, just curious if Jumpstart has gotten anyone thinking about variants or implications for the cube format? I can see a lot of ways for a casual or budget cube designer to run with this:
1. Remove duplicate themes from a box, keep the deck lists, sleeve up the remainder, and run this as a draft sim. Perhaps collecting additional themes that weren't present in the first box.
2. Refine, add to, and tune certain themes, so they're either more powerful or just function more smoothly.
3. Create entirely new themes.
4. Work on adding more "glue" cards to the packs, so there's more synergy between each random pack pairing.
5. Since most sets will have a featured tribe, character, and/or mechanic, add new packs to the "cube" with each release.
In the interest of not having to sleeve so many lands, I could see making packs of between 13 and 15 cards (depending on the # of non basics included), and allowing players to pick their basics out of the land station the cube owner provides.
I'd be interested in hearing what other folks have been thinking!
Sounds like an amazing idea to me! Putting a small marking on the inner side of the front of the sleeve makes sorting out after a game very fast.
I've been doing a lot of thinking to create a non-constructed format for new players, which are completely overwhelmed even by sealed in Cube. I came up with a custom format, but a Jumpstart-"cube" might be the perfect niche.
Been thinking about this kind of setup for a bit now, and I have some thoughts to share.
What I like
Thematic decks
Consolidated Synergies (no need to hope something wheels back to you)
The ability for fringe archetypes to be exist and perform
What I dislike
Dodging the drafting element
Disconnected balance in favor of random pairings
Wonky non-synergy pairings
Personally, I have my 360 card Cube which functions as a core. From there, I have 2 modules containing 90 cards each that allow me to expand the number of players that can draft it, which bump the Cube size up to 450 and 540 as needed. I also have a 180 card module that introduces Commander/Multiplayer settings which also expands on existing archetypes while introducing others.
For me, a JumpStart set up is something I would ideally like to work with my core 360 card Cube if possible, and that is a problem I am working on solving from a design perspective. However, this might lead me to actually partaking in making an additional 360 card Cube that is unpowered and focuses more on core gameplay with lower complexity.
What my JumpStart Cube will likely look like
240 card Cube core
120 card JumpStart module(s)
Centered around multiplayer pods of 4
Players get 2 drafting packs from the core and 1 seeded JumpStart pack to center their draft around.
Additionally
I love playing modes like Planechase and Archenemy. This kind of setup really seems like a good way to center some game nights around the fantasy of Magic: the Gathering and breaking away from the common Cube drafts that we do without feeling like we skipping out on a fun limited sessioncompletely. I have already begun conceptualizing packs centered around various Planeswalkers and themes that do not traditionally exist in Cube. Opening a JumpStart pack with a Serra the Benevolent and a flying/angel theme and rolling with it through a drafting process seems super fun to me. A Calix, Destiny's Hand with some enchantress theme to draft into could be just the breath of fresh air that our Cube nights need while staving off goblins and elves!
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Thanks for the reply and interesting cube proposals. I agree completely on the opportunities for flavor and lore "wins" with this format. With some thought and care crafting packs, I'm sure some great stories could be built off the back of magic variants like planechase; really "boardgame-afying" magic. For instance, theme packs depicting the old walkers, weatherlight crew, phyrexians, and other side factions + planechase for a "weatherlight saga jumpstart cube" would be an amazing achievement in set building!
Based on the proposal you've written above, you'd be dispensing with all the rarity distributions in normal jumpstart packs, and going straight to high powered archetypes in each?
I think rarity distribution in packs is kind of unreasonable if you want to achieve balance. It is easier to do when you have product control like WOTC, but some themes without bypassing rarity distribution - will be inherently weaker than others. Only way to offset that is to just not use the rarity distribution and instead, focus on flavor and feel. The rest can hopefully be balanced in draft.
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LEGACY|UWStonebladeCOMMANDER|UBGThe Mimeoplsm Ooze & Aghhs!MODERN|UWAzorius Control THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Been thinking about this kind of setup for a bit now, and I have some thoughts to share.
What I like
Thematic decks
Consolidated Synergies (no need to hope something wheels back to you)
The ability for fringe archetypes to be exist and perform
What I dislike
Dodging the drafting element
Disconnected balance in favor of random pairings
Wonky non-synergy pairings
What my JumpStart Cube will likely look like
240 card Cube core
120 card JumpStart module(s)
Centered around multiplayer pods of 4
Players get 2 drafting packs from the core and 1 seeded JumpStart pack to center their draft around.
A very interesting take on the jumpstart idea! I'm leaning the other way, cherishing the Jumpstart-idea to get a non-constructed format without the need of drafting. I love drafting, but I seldom get many people together for Cube and there are some friends that don't know Magic well enough (yet :P) to enjoy draft. So I was on the lookout for a non-constructed format that does not require a real drafting process and deckbuilding and Jumpstart fits that role perfectly.
A very interesting take on the jumpstart idea! I'm leaning the other way, cherishing the Jumpstart-idea to get a non-constructed format without the need of drafting. I love drafting, but I seldom get many people together for Cube and there are some friends that don't know Magic well enough (yet :P) to enjoy draft. So I was on the lookout for a non-constructed format that does not require a real drafting process and deckbuilding and Jumpstart fits that role perfectly.
We sometimes just do sealed events with the Cube when we don't feel like drafting. Kind of the same principal as just getting packs and smashing them together. There is still a need to build a deck from your pool, which I guess JumpStart alleviates. However I think the traditional JumpStart model introduces balancing problems alongside the issue of themes not being as strong as they could be. Personally, what attracts me most to JumpStart is the flavor wins that come with it - and I would love to have a means to inject that into Cube, be it a traditional draft or a sealed event. Traditional JumpStart approach does not seem very sustainable long-term, at least to me.
But, I will be sharing my themed packs here once I get them all fleshed out, so players can borrow from them as they would like, I think they should also be fairly applicable to some players looking to stick with a traditional JS experience.
Building Samples
I will preface this with:
These packs are designed for my concept posted above. I wanted to center the theme around individual planeswalkers to fit in with our group playing Planechase. I have a lot of planning to do with them so they are not even remotely complete.
Many themes are unoptimized - I don't feel like putting in significant amounts of money, since my basic Cube is expensive enough, so I went with what I had lying around. Still some ideas are quite good, if I may say so myself
While working on it I started to agree with your two points against a full Jumpstart format. One being the inequality in powerlevel and the other being the fact that some themes cannot be fully fleshed out in a pack. Nonetheless, the upside of a format completely void of deckbuilding (at least on a pedagogical level) outweighs these downsides for me, put I'm stoked to see your re-interpretation of the format!
I have not gotten around to it, I have had a lot on my plate lately and had planned to try and jump back into it mid to late January once I clear the holidays and everything off the docket.
Card Duplicates
I find card duplicates interesting. The second pack I had been working on was Tezzeret and as I was sifting through some options I had noticed that there are cards I wanted to possibly overlap with other packs because they had a similar theme or played into the flavor in some way. My initial concern was that duplicates could possibly double up creating huge variance based simply on luck. I kind of realized that the introduction Planechase should theoretically reduce that. Which leads me to my next note...
The Testing Process
This is something I really wanted to figure out. I did not want to end up having a huge JS Cube and have to run it through the wringer all at once to try and balance things. I had planned to build a second pack and just loosely run it against the Nissa pack and see if it felt like it was on par and entertaining. This was to help me try and balance as I went so I didn't immediately turn players off of it, which is an initial concern. Not that anyone needs to do the same, but I figured I would share that tidbit just incase.
Draft-Free Deckbuilding
I get the appeal of just being able to smash packs together. I have not really fleshed out how to work around my current system short of adding an additional add-on. But it is something I had planned on working out at some point so my players could also indulge should they so choose.
Private Mod Note
():
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LEGACY|UWStonebladeCOMMANDER|UBGThe Mimeoplsm Ooze & Aghhs!MODERN|UWAzorius Control THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
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1. Remove duplicate themes from a box, keep the deck lists, sleeve up the remainder, and run this as a draft sim. Perhaps collecting additional themes that weren't present in the first box.
2. Refine, add to, and tune certain themes, so they're either more powerful or just function more smoothly.
3. Create entirely new themes.
4. Work on adding more "glue" cards to the packs, so there's more synergy between each random pack pairing.
5. Since most sets will have a featured tribe, character, and/or mechanic, add new packs to the "cube" with each release.
In the interest of not having to sleeve so many lands, I could see making packs of between 13 and 15 cards (depending on the # of non basics included), and allowing players to pick their basics out of the land station the cube owner provides.
I'd be interested in hearing what other folks have been thinking!
Thanks!
PS. Stupid proof of concept:
Nightmares
1 Hunted Nightmare
1 Faceless Butcher
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Plague Mare
1 Banehound
1 Wormfang Drake
1 Paragon of Open Graves
1 Terror
1 Asphyxiate
1 Hideous End
1 Aspect of Lamprey
1 Breathstealer's Crypt
1 Drake-Skull Cameo
Other
1 Salt Marsh
1 Thriving Isle
4 Swamp
1 Island
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
I've been doing a lot of thinking to create a non-constructed format for new players, which are completely overwhelmed even by sealed in Cube. I came up with a custom format, but a Jumpstart-"cube" might be the perfect niche.
What I like
Personally, I have my 360 card Cube which functions as a core. From there, I have 2 modules containing 90 cards each that allow me to expand the number of players that can draft it, which bump the Cube size up to 450 and 540 as needed. I also have a 180 card module that introduces Commander/Multiplayer settings which also expands on existing archetypes while introducing others.
For me, a JumpStart set up is something I would ideally like to work with my core 360 card Cube if possible, and that is a problem I am working on solving from a design perspective. However, this might lead me to actually partaking in making an additional 360 card Cube that is unpowered and focuses more on core gameplay with lower complexity.
What my JumpStart Cube will likely look like
Additionally
I love playing modes like Planechase and Archenemy. This kind of setup really seems like a good way to center some game nights around the fantasy of Magic: the Gathering and breaking away from the common Cube drafts that we do without feeling like we skipping out on a fun limited sessioncompletely. I have already begun conceptualizing packs centered around various Planeswalkers and themes that do not traditionally exist in Cube. Opening a JumpStart pack with a Serra the Benevolent and a flying/angel theme and rolling with it through a drafting process seems super fun to me. A Calix, Destiny's Hand with some enchantress theme to draft into could be just the breath of fresh air that our Cube nights need while staving off goblins and elves!
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Based on the proposal you've written above, you'd be dispensing with all the rarity distributions in normal jumpstart packs, and going straight to high powered archetypes in each?
"Personally I love high-riak, low-reqars gambles. Life's best with a decent amount of riak. And f*** reqars."
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
A very interesting take on the jumpstart idea! I'm leaning the other way, cherishing the Jumpstart-idea to get a non-constructed format without the need of drafting. I love drafting, but I seldom get many people together for Cube and there are some friends that don't know Magic well enough (yet :P) to enjoy draft. So I was on the lookout for a non-constructed format that does not require a real drafting process and deckbuilding and Jumpstart fits that role perfectly.
We sometimes just do sealed events with the Cube when we don't feel like drafting. Kind of the same principal as just getting packs and smashing them together. There is still a need to build a deck from your pool, which I guess JumpStart alleviates. However I think the traditional JumpStart model introduces balancing problems alongside the issue of themes not being as strong as they could be. Personally, what attracts me most to JumpStart is the flavor wins that come with it - and I would love to have a means to inject that into Cube, be it a traditional draft or a sealed event. Traditional JumpStart approach does not seem very sustainable long-term, at least to me.
But, I will be sharing my themed packs here once I get them all fleshed out, so players can borrow from them as they would like, I think they should also be fairly applicable to some players looking to stick with a traditional JS experience.
Building Samples
I will preface this with:
These packs are designed for my concept posted above. I wanted to center the theme around individual planeswalkers to fit in with our group playing Planechase. I have a lot of planning to do with them so they are not even remotely complete.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
I've been brainstorming some ideas myself and managed to put some packs together - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5fa471bc57aea647df001a7d
That's what I've come up with so far, sort by Name Tag if you want to see the different packs.
Many themes are unoptimized - I don't feel like putting in significant amounts of money, since my basic Cube is expensive enough, so I went with what I had lying around. Still some ideas are quite good, if I may say so myself
While working on it I started to agree with your two points against a full Jumpstart format. One being the inequality in powerlevel and the other being the fact that some themes cannot be fully fleshed out in a pack. Nonetheless, the upside of a format completely void of deckbuilding (at least on a pedagogical level) outweighs these downsides for me, put I'm stoked to see your re-interpretation of the format!
Card Duplicates
I find card duplicates interesting. The second pack I had been working on was Tezzeret and as I was sifting through some options I had noticed that there are cards I wanted to possibly overlap with other packs because they had a similar theme or played into the flavor in some way. My initial concern was that duplicates could possibly double up creating huge variance based simply on luck. I kind of realized that the introduction Planechase should theoretically reduce that. Which leads me to my next note...
The Testing Process
This is something I really wanted to figure out. I did not want to end up having a huge JS Cube and have to run it through the wringer all at once to try and balance things. I had planned to build a second pack and just loosely run it against the Nissa pack and see if it felt like it was on par and entertaining. This was to help me try and balance as I went so I didn't immediately turn players off of it, which is an initial concern. Not that anyone needs to do the same, but I figured I would share that tidbit just incase.
Draft-Free Deckbuilding
I get the appeal of just being able to smash packs together. I have not really fleshed out how to work around my current system short of adding an additional add-on. But it is something I had planned on working out at some point so my players could also indulge should they so choose.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE