The more I think about mana mine the more I think that could really see print. Definitely would like to hear more feedback on that one.
I could see nerfing the power bonus to +2/+0 or losing the reach, but otherwise Martyr is exactly the kind of defensive powerhouse that could be printed and cubed. It also would add to the list of creatures that double as combat tricks which is something cube desperately needs since lack of tricks often makes combat in cubes wildly predictable.
I actually don't see an issue with a 1/1 flying token with a 0 loyalty cost on a two-color 3CC PW. Gideon makes 2/2's at 2WW and Xenagos makes 2/2's with haste at 2RG for the same loyalty cost. It might be better than Elspeth, Knight-Errant's +1 token producing ability, but Elpseth's other abilities are miles betterso in the end this seems on balance. That said, I'm not wild about the Kangee design.
A couple more ideas. I pushed these pretty hard but tried to keep them printable.
Vampiric Bloodbroker2B
Creature - Vampire
Flying, Lifelink
Scale (Each time per turn you use this permanent’s activated ability double all numbers associated with its cost.)
Pay 2 life: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on Vampiric Bloodbroker. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
1/1
Notes Just started experimenting with scale. Seems like an interesting way to give players access to abilities that are powerful when stacked but at great cost for great power. Not sure if this one would see play or not.
Dagon the DevastatorXXR
Legendary Creature - Orc Warrior (M)
Haste, Menace
Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters.
When Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield target opponent sacrifices up to X untapped lands they control. For each land fewer than X that opponent sacrificed this way Dagon deals 2 damage to that player.
1/2
Notes: Dagon combines aggro with land destruction and burn and scales to boot. At R, Dagon is a respectable 1/2 with haste and menace. at 2R Dagon is a 2/3 with haste and menace that forces your opponent to sacrifice a land if they control an untapped land. If they don't, that's okay. They take 2 to the face and then Dagon swings for two more. The land ability scales so if Dagon is cast for 4R, the targeted opponent must sacrifice up to two untapped lands if they have them. If they have one, they sacrifice that and take 2 damage, and if they have none untapped they take four to the face.
The more I think about mana mine the more I think that could really see print. Definitely would like to hear more feedback on that one.
I could see nerfing the power bonus to +2/+0 or losing the reach, but otherwise Martyr is exactly the kind of defensive powerhouse that could be printed and cubed. It also would add to the list of creatures that double as combat tricks which is something cube desperately needs since lack of tricks often makes combat in cubes wildly predictable.
I actually don't see an issue with a 1/1 flying token with a 0 loyalty cost on a two-color 3CC PW. Gideon makes 2/2's at 2WW and Xenagos makes 2/2's with haste at 2RG for the same loyalty cost. It might be better than Elspeth, Knight-Errant's +1 token producing ability, but Elpseth's other abilities are miles betterso in the end this seems on balance. That said, I'm not wild about the Kangee design.
Thanks for feedback as always.
All of those planeswalkers you just referenced cost 4 mana. There's a huge difference between 3 mana and 4 mana when it comes to planeswalkers. If you look at every single 3 CMC planeswalker, not a single one of them allows unconditional card advantage (including a token that can attack) at positive or 0 loyalty: Ajani, Caller of the Pride - +1/+1 counter Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Exile-mill 3 Dack Fayden - Loot 2, card advantage neutral Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast - Makes a token but it has defender which makes it extremely limited. Domri Rade - Chance to draw a card, but maxes out around 40% Gideon of the Trials - Fogs a permanent or attacks but neither generates card advantage Jace Beleren - Symmetrical draw, card advantage neutral Jace, Cunning Castaway - Conditional loot, card advantage neutral Liliana of the Veil - Symmetrical Discard, card advantage neutral unless your hand is empty Liliana, the Last Hope - -2/-1, is only card advantage against 1 toughness creatures Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - 0/1 token Saheeli Rai - Scry and Ping face
The closest are Daretti and Nissa, but both make extremely low-valued tokens. A 1/1 flyer is *considerably* better than either. Look also at the latest Jace, he makes a 2/2 token, but it comes with a drawback AND it's at -2.
A couple more ideas. I pushed these pretty hard but tried to keep them printable.
Vampiric Bloodbroker2B
Creature - Vampire
Flying, Lifelink
Scale (Each time per turn you use this permanent’s activated ability double all numbers associated with its cost.)
Pay 2 life: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on Vampiric Bloodbroker. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
1/1
Notes Just started experimenting with scale. Seems like an interesting way to give players access to abilities that are powerful when stacked but at great cost for great power. Not sure if this one would see play or not.
Scale is interesting, but the memory issues seem problematic, as does the fact that activating 3 or more times makes it difficult to figure out how much the next activation will cost off of the top of your head. This card also seems pretty insane - even if you're only using it once per turn, it's going to clear a lot of enemy creatures and grow massive extremely quickly at no additional mana commitment. And with lifelink, it earns back the life you spend extremely quickly, making 2-3 activations very feasible at which point this absolutely dominates the board.
Dagon the DevastatorXXR
Legendary Creature - Orc Warrior (M)
Haste, Menace
Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters.
When Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield target opponent sacrifices up to X untapped lands they control. For each land fewer than X that opponent sacrificed this way Dagon deals 2 damage to that player.
1/2
Notes: Dagon combines aggro with land destruction and burn and scales to boot. At R, Dagon is a respectable 1/2 with haste and menace. at 2R Dagon is a 2/3 with haste and menace that forces your opponent to sacrifice a land if they control an untapped land. If they don't, that's okay. They take 2 to the face and then Dagon swings for two more. The land ability scales so if Dagon is cast for 4R, the targeted opponent must sacrifice up to two untapped lands if they have them. If they have one, they sacrifice that and take 2 damage, and if they have none untapped they take four to the face.
The "untapped land" clause makes this effectively worthless as actual land destruction, as your opponent can just float all their mana in response to the spell or ability. Also, with the way it's worded, they can just choose not to sacrifice the lands even if they're untapped.
Which basically just means this guy is a fast-scaling Blaze to the face. Haste + Menace means its hard to stop, and getting 3 damage per 2 additional mana invested means this scales extremely quickly. 4R deals 7 damage, 6R deals 10. And it leaves a reasonable body behind.
If I might make one suggestion? Most of your designs feel like they're too busy. Most of your creatures have 2+ keywords plus triggered ability(s). This is not entirely unheard of, but it should mostly be the exception rather than the rule. See if you can distill the idea of your design down into its most elegant form.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Regarding Vampiric Bloodbroker....what memory issues? It is per turn. It doesn't double with each activation over the course of the game. Also being limited to activating the ability at any time you can activate a sorcery makes it even easier to keep track of.
It scales as follows and on your turn only:
Pay 2 life: Give -1/-1 to opposing creature and get a +1/+1 counter.
Pay 6 life: (2 + 4) -1/-1 two times to opposing creature(s)and two +1/+1 counters on Bloodbroker.
Pay 14 life: (2 + 4 + 8) Give -1/-1 three times to opposing creature(s) and put three +1/+1 counters on Vampiric Bloodbroker.
Now obviously the best line of play is usually going to be to build Bloodbroker over time using its ability once or maybe twice during your turn, but if a Commander player wants to pay 30 life to kill an x/4 creature this can do that too. Hehe.
I'm not going to respond on Dagon because after a bit more reflection I came to the conclusion it is busted as all hell and I'll just move on to my next idea...hehe.
Appreciate the design advice and I will aim for more elegance. However, I should note that most cube creatures starting at 3CC on up tend to have the format of 1-2 keywords (not necessarily evergreen) + additional triggered or activated ability. That combination of utility both in combat and some other ability usable immediately or in 1-2 turns at most is what makes up the best cards in cube which is the medium I'm designing for.
Some New Designs!
Knight of the Fauna2G
Creature - Elf Knight (R)
If mana produced by a creature was used to cast Knight of the Fauna it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter. : Add G to your mana pool. If this mana is used to cast a creature spell, that creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each mana produced by a creature used to cast it.
2/3
Notes: Wanted to make a creature that synergizes well with mana elves. This guy gets a p/t bump when you cast him T2 off that Llanowar Elves and when you use this guy alone or in synergy with other mana elves other creatures you cast get bonuses too! The more mana produced by creatures the bigger the boost!
Symbol of Resistance1W
Creature - Human Soldier (R)
Flash
Multikicker 1W (You may pay an additional 1W any number of times as you cast this spell.)
When Symbol of Resistance enters the battlefield put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control for each time it was kicked.
2/1
Notes: Always have a soft spot for tide-turning cards and particularly white cards that improve blocking results.
Dark ProphetB
Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Hexproof
When Dark Prophet enters the battlefield target opponent reveals his or her hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep put a prophecy counter on Dark Prophet. If there are 5 or more prophecy counters on Dark Prophet sacrifice it and for each card in target opponent’s hand you may name a nonland card. That opponent reveals their hand and discards all nonland cards with those names.
1/1
Notes: Not entirely sure if cube would try this or not and I know the ability feels a little silver-borderish but I think it could be doable. Love the idea of putting a clock on your opponents hand. Not a great topdeck though.
Regarding Vampiric Bloodbroker....what memory issues? It is per turn. It doesn't double with each activation over the course of the game. Also being limited to activating the ability at any time you can activate a sorcery makes it even easier to keep track of.
It scales as follows and on your turn only:
Pay 2 life: Give -1/-1 to opposing creature and get a +1/+1 counter.
Pay 6 life: (2 + 4) -1/-1 two times to opposing creature(s)and two +1/+1 counters on Bloodbroker.
Pay 14 life: (2 + 4 + 8) Give -1/-1 three times to opposing creature(s) and put three +1/+1 counters on Vampiric Bloodbroker.
Now obviously the best line of play is usually going to be to build Bloodbroker over time using its ability once or maybe twice during your turn, but if a Commander player wants to pay 30 life to kill an x/4 creature this can do that too. Hehe.
There are still memory issues if you activate it at multiple points across a turn. Like, activate it once, cast a spell to finish something off, activate it again to weaken a potential blocker, swing with the team, activate post combat to finish off a guy - A bunch of stuff has happened at this point, is this your second or third activation this turn? You go to activate it a fourth time, a fifth time. Let's say you gained 80 life off of an Invincible Hymn in commander. Quick, off of the top of your head, how much life do you have to pay to activate this six times? You're basically asking people to do exponential math. And there's not really a precedent for cards increasing in cost across a turn, likely because of this memory issue. I think it might be cleaner all around to make the ability something like:
"Pay 2 life for each +1/+1 counter on ~: target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on ~. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
Appreciate the design advice and I will aim for more elegance. However, I should note that most cube creatures starting at 3CC on up tend to have the format of 1-2 keywords (not necessarily evergreen) + additional triggered or activated ability. That combination of utility both in combat and some other ability usable immediately or in 1-2 turns at most is what makes up the best cards in cube which is the medium I'm designing for.
I don't think that's entirely correct. Looking at wtwlf's cube, at creatures that cost 3 or more, more of them have one or fewer keywords than 2+. Only 5 out of 13 white creatures that fit that bill have 2 or more keywords, and several of those (Exalted Angel, Gisela, the Broken Blade) have a couple of keywords but nothing else. 4 of 10 blue, and Inkwell Leviathan is just a pile of keywords. 4 of 13 black. 1 of 11 red. 4 of 19 green.
Some New Designs!
Knight of the Fauna2G
Creature - Elf Knight (R)
If mana produced by a creature was used to cast Knight of the Fauna it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter. : Add G to your mana pool. If this mana is used to cast a creature spell, that creature enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter for each mana produced by a creature used to cast it.
2/3
Notes: Wanted to make a creature that synergizes well with mana elves. This guy gets a p/t bump when you cast him T2 off that Llanowar Elves and when you use this guy alone or in synergy with other mana elves other creatures you cast get bonuses too! The more mana produced by creatures the bigger the boost!
Very interesting. 3/4 for 3 off of a mana elf, and you can then cast a 5 drop on turn 3 with two counters on it. I'm worried the failback case where you're not casting him until turn three and don't have a second elf to boost his ability is a touch weak, but I think the BCS washes that out.
Symbol of Resistance1W
Creature - Human Soldier (R)
Flash
Multikicker 1W (You may pay an additional 1W any number of times as you cast this spell.)
When Beacon of Resistance enters the battlefield put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control for each time it was kicked.
2/1
Notes: Always have a soft spot for tide-turning cards and particularly white cards that improve blocking results.
This is strong, but I'm concerned the +1/+1 counters give it too much staying power. Definitely cool though.
Dark ProphetB
Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Hexproof
When Dark Prophet enters the battlefield target opponent reveals his or her hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep put a prophecy counter on Dark Prophet. If there are 5 or more prophecy counters on Dark Prophet sacrifice it and for each card in target opponent’s hand you may name a nonland card. That opponent reveals their hand and discards all nonland cards with those names.
Notes: Not entirely sure if cube would try this or not and I know the ability feels a little silver-borderish but I think it could be doable. Love the idea of putting a clock on your opponents hand. Not a great topdeck though.
A) Needs a P/T
B) Hexproof still isn't black
C) The ability seems weird. Like, after five turns you get to rip any cards they're still holding, but how many will that realistically be? And anything else is basically dumb luck guessing in a Cube format, unless you're combining it with other hand reveal cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Careful Wildfire, those critiques are coming awful close to approval I kid, I kid.
I did indeed forget P/T on the Dark Prophet (He's just a 1/1). I'm going to invoke the mythic rule on him being black and having hexproof. There's quite a few cases where mythics break the color pie, especially where flavor allows for it. As a prophet, I'd say the flavor is there for him to be able to avert his own death from an opponent's spell. I thought about making this a three drop and having it go off in three turns (Or 2-drop, four turns) but I'm not sure that isn't too strong, but it could (though rarely) give this card more late game viability and make it a less awful top deck. Narrowing the clock to three turns might be more impactful across formats too, but is it printable...I don't know.
Would you play these and do you believe they are printable?
Emberbreath ScholarUR
Creature - Human Wizard (R) 1R, Discard a card: Emberbreath Scholar gets +2/+0 1U: Draw a card. Activate this ability only if Emberbreath Scholar’s power is greater than the number of cards in your hand.
1/2
Notes: It can be a large threat, it can be a graveyard enabler, it draws for cheap when hellbent or after using the first ability to up Scholar's power. Might be a bit too mana intensive for cube though and Izzet is a very strong section.
Tamiyo, Tidal Insurgent2U
Legendary Planeswalker - Tamiyo (M)
Elementals you control get +1/+1
+1: Target land an opponent controls is an Island until your next turn.
0: Create a 1/0 Blue elemental token.
-X: Draw X cards, then discard a card.
[2]
Would you play these and do you believe they are printable?
Emberbreath ScholarUR
Creature - Human Wizard (R) 1R, Discard a card: Emberbreath Scholar gets +2/+0 1U: Draw a card. Activate this ability only if Emberbreath Scholar’s power is greater than the number of cards in your hand.
1/2
Notes: It can be a large threat, it can be a graveyard enabler, it draws for cheap when hellbent or after using the first ability to up Scholar's power. Might be a bit too mana intensive for cube though and Izzet is a very strong section.
It's interesting, for sure, but I don't think it cuts it in cube for sure. I could see this as a lynchpin uncommon in a standard draft set though. To make the cut in cube that first ability would probably have to be free, and even then I'm not sure it beats existing options just because they're better fits.
Tamiyo, Tidal Insurgent2U
Legendary Planeswalker - Tamiyo (M)
Elementals you control get +1/+1
+1: Target land an opponent controls is an Island until your next turn.
0: Create a 1/0 Blue elemental token.
-X: Draw X cards, then discard a card.
[2]
It's definitely interesting. I'm not sure it quite fits Tamiyo's character though. I get moons cause tides, but this seems much more like a water-wizard type planeswalker than anything else.
I'm worried the +1 isn't really impactful enough for a 3 mana walker, but the +0 is really good - but balanced, unlike some of your other 3-mana walkers, by the fact that the tokens go away immediately if she dies. I'm also concerned the abilities aren't coherent enough. The +1 and +0 are vaguely water-related as you've got flooding and "wave" elementals, but the last ability isn't. Maybe make it a -3 or -4 Submerge effect?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I agree that Emberbreath is too mana intensive to see cube play. It sits on that line between lynchpin uncommon or slightly underwhelming rare, but this probably is uncommon the more I think on it.
Happy to see some positive feedback on Tamiyo. I'm really working on getting balancing right on PW's while still creating something exciting. I think this hits the sweet spot!
@ Wildfire Your point on this not having the Tamiyo feel is well taken, but of the existing walkers I feel Kiora has been established as Simic and so despite her character being a potentially better fit, Tamiyo is the best mono-blue walker currently in existence to represent this set of abilities. Having played Spreading Seas in constructed and seeing how much work it does I think it's actually a really solid +1 effect on a 3 mana splashable walker. It punishes greedy mana bases and so many fantastic utility lands present in cube. Also, the ultimate ablility is in line with the card draw effects present on both previous versions of Tamiyo. My starting point was just divination that scaled, but changing it to a scaling Pull from Tomorrow helps to not obsolete divination and also opens up Tamiyo to other applications (looting, etc.).
Edit: 1 more PW design for the day. This is my first attempt at a flip-walker so be gentle with the critiques.
Sorin, Dark Diplomat2BB
Legendary Planeswalker - Sorin (M)
-2: Each opponent discards a card at random.
0: Reveal the top card of your library and put into your hand. Sorin, Dark Diplomat loses loyalty counters equal to its converted mana cost.
-X: Target creature gets -X/-X. Transform Sorin, Dark Diplomat.
5
// Sorin, Vampiric Lord
0: Until end of turn Sorin, Vampiric Lord becomes a legendary 4/4 Black vampire creature with flying, indestructible, and lifelink.
+X: Lose X Life. Put X loyalty counters on Sorin, Vampiric Lord. Transform Sorin, Vampiric Lord.
Notes: It does all the things! Random discard, Pseudo Dark Confidant, Removal, Turn 5 threat, and the final ability allows it to return to the first side more threatening than before.
Felt a bit off putting a discard ability on Sorin as this is usually a Liliana thing, but Sorin does appear on Monomania so there is at least a little precedent linking Sorin to discard. I think I am most excited by the second ability. It's a Dark Confidant effect that costs loyalty rather than life. Using the ability is a risk in that if you flip a 5CC or more card it will kill Sorin, but you still get the card. The last ability can be dismember if needed (but this kills Sorin). If used for less it will transform to the other side where Sorin can be an indestructible, lifelinking, evasive bomb, or you can pay life to return it to the front side with a higher loyalty enabling more random discard, stronger removal, or enabling Sorin to survive more "Confidant triggers".
I keep going back and forth on whether the loyalty should begin at 4 or 5. Also, I'm concerned the +X ability is too easily abused. I would entertain effects other than random discard for the front side, but every existing Sorin variant tends to have effects that are either life drain or vampire token creation and I don't want those. I think I've got a good foundation with this design, but would love to tweak it with some feedback here.
I like that Emberbreath Scholar design a lot. I do think the pump ability is a bit anemic; I’d have it grant something like First Strike or Trample as well. Or maybe lower the activation to R + discard to make it more explosive and increase the chances the synergy matters?
Your Sorin seems rather busted to me, particularly the flip side abilities. It’s got a similar play pattern to Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker in that you kill a 4 power creature, then beat your opponent down with a 4/4 flier. This card is a full mana cheaper and can do a ton of other things, including making itself virtually immune to damage-based removal. I generally like the play pattern and synergy between other abilities and would happily play this at 5 mana, though I don’t foresee myself using the discard mode often.
Quick design off the top of my head. This is the curve topper red aggro needs but it scales well into the late game as well. Couldn't have this hit players too as that would make an already pushed design too good to print I think.
Rushing LavaswellXRR
Creature - Elemental (R)
Haste
Rushing Lavaswell enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
When Rushing Lavaswell enters the battlefield it deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker.
2/1
So for 4 mana I get a 4/3 hastey creature that shocks something, and that's only one mode of its scalability? That is so insanely OP, Haste Tongue Kavu. Even with Ravenous Chupacabra recently printed, they would never print something like this.
Yeah that thing's pretty insane. Even just 2RR 4/3 haste + shock is so far ahead of the curve, I can't see them printing it. Sand Strangler is the closest thing they've printed in years, and that's just a Hill Giant with a conditional bolt.
Even at base 0/0 this thing seems pretty pushed. Shave haste and make it a 0/0 and it's still probably worth considering. As it stands, this is way too good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
The design started as a base 1/1 but I got a little greedy thinking about what I would want from red in my own cube. Fine....(crosses arms).
How about these...
The triple colored mana cycle in Dominaria got me thinking about what would get me to pay that cost in cube and this is what I came up with.
Hypnotic NecromancerBBB
Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Deathtouch, Menace
Whenever Hypnotic Necromancer deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card at random. If a creature card is discarded this way put it onto the battlefield under your control instead.
2/2
On a less complex note I also designed this guy for G/x aggro and +1/+1 counter themes.
Swelling OozeG
Creature - Ooze (R)
At the beginning of your upkeep if you did not place any +1/+1 counters on Swelling Ooze during your last turn, place a +1/+1 counter on Swelling Ooze.
1/1
It's been a while, but here's something that came to mind today:
Flamewake Veteran2R
Creature - Human Warrior {M}
3/3
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile the top three cards of your library face-down.
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, put a card exiled by it into your hand.
It's been a while, but here's something that came to mind today:
Flamewake Veteran2R
Creature - Human Warrior {M}
3/3
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile the top three cards of your library face-down.
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, put a card exiled by it into your hand.
That's interesting, but I feel like it should be "whenever it deals damage" so it's more proactive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
LftL doesn't seem like it'd be fun for anyone except for the rare occasion where someone lands a nut draft and gets Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Tectonic Edge, manlands, etc. Even then, games against multiple Wastelands aren't fun, the only person having fun that draft is the person with the Loam deck that half of the time doesn't let you play the game and half of the time durdles and dies on the spot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~400 Peasant++ : List : Draft
Warning: Not for the durdly-hearted!
LftL doesn't seem like it'd be fun for anyone except for the rare occasion where someone lands a nut draft and gets Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Tectonic Edge, manlands, etc. Even then, games against multiple Wastelands aren't fun, the only person having fun that draft is the person with the Loam deck that half of the time doesn't let you play the game and half of the time durdles and dies on the spot.
is this the black 5 drop we all wish we had?
3BB
zombie manipulator
When Creature enters the battle field create 3 2/2 zombie tokens
While Creatue is on the battle field, Other zombies you control get -1/-1
While Creature is in your graveyeard, Other Zombies you control get +1/ +1
That's pretty cool design! I'd play that, seems close to Siege Gang, having it die means a lot of power but at the same time there is some work involved with casting it + it dying. Nice!
Since we're all on the black 5 drop wishlist state of mind again I have a few more I made up. I threw these together pretty fast, but maybe one will resonate.
Demos, Head of the Cabal2BBB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Hexproof
Pay 5 Life: Create a legendary 5/5 Black Demon token with flying named Belial, the Black Scourge.
Pay 10 Life: Destroy all creatures you don’t control.
Sacrifice Demos, Head of the Cabal: Return target legendary creature from your graveyard to the battlefield.
1/1
Notes: Wanted to toy with the idea of blood magic and high-risk, high-reward. Getting access to Plague Wind at 5CC is pretty sexy I would say. I also was feeling a bit inspired by the Legendary theme of Dominaria and so I chose to limit his reanimation ability to legendary creatures.
Hypnoxia, Specter Queen3BB
Legendary Creature - Specter(M)
Haste, Flying
When Hypnoxia Specter Queen enters the battlefield you may look at target opponent’s hand.
Whenever Hypnoxia Specter Queen attacks you may name a card. The defending player reveals their hand and discards all cards with that name.
3/4
Notes: Black is getting haste because it's a legendary mythic and because without it this might not be good enough. For 2 more than the original Hippy Specter you get Haste, +1/+2, the ability triggers on attack for assured value, and the ability lets you choose which card they discard each time provided you have any short-term memory.
Thrull Spawnsire4B
Creature - Thrull (M)
When Thrull Spawnsire enters the battlefield create two 0/1 Black thrull tokens.
Thrulls you control get +2/+0
Thrull Spawnsire can be cast from your graveyard.
Sacrifice Thrull Spawnsire: Gain 1 life for each thrull you control.
0/1
Notes: It's my ideal black token engine. It creates bodies, it pumps those bodies, it can be cast from the grave, and it can be sacrificed for sorely needed lifegain in black and then recast for more dudes next turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I could see nerfing the power bonus to +2/+0 or losing the reach, but otherwise Martyr is exactly the kind of defensive powerhouse that could be printed and cubed. It also would add to the list of creatures that double as combat tricks which is something cube desperately needs since lack of tricks often makes combat in cubes wildly predictable.
I actually don't see an issue with a 1/1 flying token with a 0 loyalty cost on a two-color 3CC PW. Gideon makes 2/2's at 2WW and Xenagos makes 2/2's with haste at 2RG for the same loyalty cost. It might be better than Elspeth, Knight-Errant's +1 token producing ability, but Elpseth's other abilities are miles betterso in the end this seems on balance. That said, I'm not wild about the Kangee design.
Thanks for feedback as always.
Vampiric Bloodbroker 2B
Creature - Vampire
Flying, Lifelink
Scale (Each time per turn you use this permanent’s activated ability double all numbers associated with its cost.)
Pay 2 life: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on Vampiric Bloodbroker. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
1/1
Notes Just started experimenting with scale. Seems like an interesting way to give players access to abilities that are powerful when stacked but at great cost for great power. Not sure if this one would see play or not.
Dagon the Devastator XXR
Legendary Creature - Orc Warrior (M)
Haste, Menace
Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters.
When Dagon the Devastator enters the battlefield target opponent sacrifices up to X untapped lands they control. For each land fewer than X that opponent sacrificed this way Dagon deals 2 damage to that player.
1/2
Notes: Dagon combines aggro with land destruction and burn and scales to boot. At R, Dagon is a respectable 1/2 with haste and menace. at 2R Dagon is a 2/3 with haste and menace that forces your opponent to sacrifice a land if they control an untapped land. If they don't, that's okay. They take 2 to the face and then Dagon swings for two more. The land ability scales so if Dagon is cast for 4R, the targeted opponent must sacrifice up to two untapped lands if they have them. If they have one, they sacrifice that and take 2 damage, and if they have none untapped they take four to the face.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffAll of those planeswalkers you just referenced cost 4 mana. There's a huge difference between 3 mana and 4 mana when it comes to planeswalkers. If you look at every single 3 CMC planeswalker, not a single one of them allows unconditional card advantage (including a token that can attack) at positive or 0 loyalty:
Ajani, Caller of the Pride - +1/+1 counter
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Exile-mill 3
Dack Fayden - Loot 2, card advantage neutral
Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast - Makes a token but it has defender which makes it extremely limited.
Domri Rade - Chance to draw a card, but maxes out around 40%
Gideon of the Trials - Fogs a permanent or attacks but neither generates card advantage
Jace Beleren - Symmetrical draw, card advantage neutral
Jace, Cunning Castaway - Conditional loot, card advantage neutral
Liliana of the Veil - Symmetrical Discard, card advantage neutral unless your hand is empty
Liliana, the Last Hope - -2/-1, is only card advantage against 1 toughness creatures
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - 0/1 token
Saheeli Rai - Scry and Ping face
The closest are Daretti and Nissa, but both make extremely low-valued tokens. A 1/1 flyer is *considerably* better than either. Look also at the latest Jace, he makes a 2/2 token, but it comes with a drawback AND it's at -2.
Scale is interesting, but the memory issues seem problematic, as does the fact that activating 3 or more times makes it difficult to figure out how much the next activation will cost off of the top of your head. This card also seems pretty insane - even if you're only using it once per turn, it's going to clear a lot of enemy creatures and grow massive extremely quickly at no additional mana commitment. And with lifelink, it earns back the life you spend extremely quickly, making 2-3 activations very feasible at which point this absolutely dominates the board.
The "untapped land" clause makes this effectively worthless as actual land destruction, as your opponent can just float all their mana in response to the spell or ability. Also, with the way it's worded, they can just choose not to sacrifice the lands even if they're untapped.
Which basically just means this guy is a fast-scaling Blaze to the face. Haste + Menace means its hard to stop, and getting 3 damage per 2 additional mana invested means this scales extremely quickly. 4R deals 7 damage, 6R deals 10. And it leaves a reasonable body behind.
If I might make one suggestion? Most of your designs feel like they're too busy. Most of your creatures have 2+ keywords plus triggered ability(s). This is not entirely unheard of, but it should mostly be the exception rather than the rule. See if you can distill the idea of your design down into its most elegant form.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
It scales as follows and on your turn only:
Pay 2 life: Give -1/-1 to opposing creature and get a +1/+1 counter.
Pay 6 life: (2 + 4) -1/-1 two times to opposing creature(s)and two +1/+1 counters on Bloodbroker.
Pay 14 life: (2 + 4 + 8) Give -1/-1 three times to opposing creature(s) and put three +1/+1 counters on Vampiric Bloodbroker.
Now obviously the best line of play is usually going to be to build Bloodbroker over time using its ability once or maybe twice during your turn, but if a Commander player wants to pay 30 life to kill an x/4 creature this can do that too. Hehe.
I'm not going to respond on Dagon because after a bit more reflection I came to the conclusion it is busted as all hell and I'll just move on to my next idea...hehe.
Appreciate the design advice and I will aim for more elegance. However, I should note that most cube creatures starting at 3CC on up tend to have the format of 1-2 keywords (not necessarily evergreen) + additional triggered or activated ability. That combination of utility both in combat and some other ability usable immediately or in 1-2 turns at most is what makes up the best cards in cube which is the medium I'm designing for.
Some New Designs!
Knight of the Fauna 2G
Creature - Elf Knight (R)
If mana produced by a creature was used to cast Knight of the Fauna it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter.
2/3
Notes: Wanted to make a creature that synergizes well with mana elves. This guy gets a p/t bump when you cast him T2 off that Llanowar Elves and when you use this guy alone or in synergy with other mana elves other creatures you cast get bonuses too! The more mana produced by creatures the bigger the boost!
Symbol of Resistance 1W
Creature - Human Soldier (R)
Flash
Multikicker 1W (You may pay an additional 1W any number of times as you cast this spell.)
When Symbol of Resistance enters the battlefield put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control for each time it was kicked.
2/1
Notes: Always have a soft spot for tide-turning cards and particularly white cards that improve blocking results.
Dark Prophet B
Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Hexproof
When Dark Prophet enters the battlefield target opponent reveals his or her hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep put a prophecy counter on Dark Prophet. If there are 5 or more prophecy counters on Dark Prophet sacrifice it and for each card in target opponent’s hand you may name a nonland card. That opponent reveals their hand and discards all nonland cards with those names.
1/1
Notes: Not entirely sure if cube would try this or not and I know the ability feels a little silver-borderish but I think it could be doable. Love the idea of putting a clock on your opponents hand. Not a great topdeck though.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThere are still memory issues if you activate it at multiple points across a turn. Like, activate it once, cast a spell to finish something off, activate it again to weaken a potential blocker, swing with the team, activate post combat to finish off a guy - A bunch of stuff has happened at this point, is this your second or third activation this turn? You go to activate it a fourth time, a fifth time. Let's say you gained 80 life off of an Invincible Hymn in commander. Quick, off of the top of your head, how much life do you have to pay to activate this six times? You're basically asking people to do exponential math. And there's not really a precedent for cards increasing in cost across a turn, likely because of this memory issue. I think it might be cleaner all around to make the ability something like:
"Pay 2 life for each +1/+1 counter on ~: target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Put a +1/+1 counter on ~. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery."
I don't think that's entirely correct. Looking at wtwlf's cube, at creatures that cost 3 or more, more of them have one or fewer keywords than 2+. Only 5 out of 13 white creatures that fit that bill have 2 or more keywords, and several of those (Exalted Angel, Gisela, the Broken Blade) have a couple of keywords but nothing else. 4 of 10 blue, and Inkwell Leviathan is just a pile of keywords. 4 of 13 black. 1 of 11 red. 4 of 19 green.
Very interesting. 3/4 for 3 off of a mana elf, and you can then cast a 5 drop on turn 3 with two counters on it. I'm worried the failback case where you're not casting him until turn three and don't have a second elf to boost his ability is a touch weak, but I think the BCS washes that out.
This is strong, but I'm concerned the +1/+1 counters give it too much staying power. Definitely cool though.
A) Needs a P/T
B) Hexproof still isn't black
C) The ability seems weird. Like, after five turns you get to rip any cards they're still holding, but how many will that realistically be? And anything else is basically dumb luck guessing in a Cube format, unless you're combining it with other hand reveal cards.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
I did indeed forget P/T on the Dark Prophet (He's just a 1/1). I'm going to invoke the mythic rule on him being black and having hexproof. There's quite a few cases where mythics break the color pie, especially where flavor allows for it. As a prophet, I'd say the flavor is there for him to be able to avert his own death from an opponent's spell. I thought about making this a three drop and having it go off in three turns (Or 2-drop, four turns) but I'm not sure that isn't too strong, but it could (though rarely) give this card more late game viability and make it a less awful top deck. Narrowing the clock to three turns might be more impactful across formats too, but is it printable...I don't know.
Emberbreath Scholar UR
Creature - Human Wizard (R)
1R, Discard a card: Emberbreath Scholar gets +2/+0
1U: Draw a card. Activate this ability only if Emberbreath Scholar’s power is greater than the number of cards in your hand.
1/2
Notes: It can be a large threat, it can be a graveyard enabler, it draws for cheap when hellbent or after using the first ability to up Scholar's power. Might be a bit too mana intensive for cube though and Izzet is a very strong section.
Tamiyo, Tidal Insurgent 2U
Legendary Planeswalker - Tamiyo (M)
Elementals you control get +1/+1
+1: Target land an opponent controls is an Island until your next turn.
0: Create a 1/0 Blue elemental token.
-X: Draw X cards, then discard a card.
[2]
Notes: Spreading Seas meets Master of Waves meets Pull From Tomorrow
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffIt's interesting, for sure, but I don't think it cuts it in cube for sure. I could see this as a lynchpin uncommon in a standard draft set though. To make the cut in cube that first ability would probably have to be free, and even then I'm not sure it beats existing options just because they're better fits.
It's definitely interesting. I'm not sure it quite fits Tamiyo's character though. I get moons cause tides, but this seems much more like a water-wizard type planeswalker than anything else.
I'm worried the +1 isn't really impactful enough for a 3 mana walker, but the +0 is really good - but balanced, unlike some of your other 3-mana walkers, by the fact that the tokens go away immediately if she dies. I'm also concerned the abilities aren't coherent enough. The +1 and +0 are vaguely water-related as you've got flooding and "wave" elementals, but the last ability isn't. Maybe make it a -3 or -4 Submerge effect?
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
I agree that Emberbreath is too mana intensive to see cube play. It sits on that line between lynchpin uncommon or slightly underwhelming rare, but this probably is uncommon the more I think on it.
Happy to see some positive feedback on Tamiyo. I'm really working on getting balancing right on PW's while still creating something exciting. I think this hits the sweet spot!
@ Wildfire Your point on this not having the Tamiyo feel is well taken, but of the existing walkers I feel Kiora has been established as Simic and so despite her character being a potentially better fit, Tamiyo is the best mono-blue walker currently in existence to represent this set of abilities. Having played Spreading Seas in constructed and seeing how much work it does I think it's actually a really solid +1 effect on a 3 mana splashable walker. It punishes greedy mana bases and so many fantastic utility lands present in cube. Also, the ultimate ablility is in line with the card draw effects present on both previous versions of Tamiyo. My starting point was just divination that scaled, but changing it to a scaling Pull from Tomorrow helps to not obsolete divination and also opens up Tamiyo to other applications (looting, etc.).
Edit: 1 more PW design for the day. This is my first attempt at a flip-walker so be gentle with the critiques.
Sorin, Dark Diplomat 2BB
Legendary Planeswalker - Sorin (M)
-2: Each opponent discards a card at random.
0: Reveal the top card of your library and put into your hand. Sorin, Dark Diplomat loses loyalty counters equal to its converted mana cost.
-X: Target creature gets -X/-X. Transform Sorin, Dark Diplomat.
5
//
Sorin, Vampiric Lord
0: Until end of turn Sorin, Vampiric Lord becomes a legendary 4/4 Black vampire creature with flying, indestructible, and lifelink.
+X: Lose X Life. Put X loyalty counters on Sorin, Vampiric Lord. Transform Sorin, Vampiric Lord.
Notes: It does all the things! Random discard, Pseudo Dark Confidant, Removal, Turn 5 threat, and the final ability allows it to return to the first side more threatening than before.
Felt a bit off putting a discard ability on Sorin as this is usually a Liliana thing, but Sorin does appear on Monomania so there is at least a little precedent linking Sorin to discard. I think I am most excited by the second ability. It's a Dark Confidant effect that costs loyalty rather than life. Using the ability is a risk in that if you flip a 5CC or more card it will kill Sorin, but you still get the card. The last ability can be dismember if needed (but this kills Sorin). If used for less it will transform to the other side where Sorin can be an indestructible, lifelinking, evasive bomb, or you can pay life to return it to the front side with a higher loyalty enabling more random discard, stronger removal, or enabling Sorin to survive more "Confidant triggers".
I keep going back and forth on whether the loyalty should begin at 4 or 5. Also, I'm concerned the +X ability is too easily abused. I would entertain effects other than random discard for the front side, but every existing Sorin variant tends to have effects that are either life drain or vampire token creation and I don't want those. I think I've got a good foundation with this design, but would love to tweak it with some feedback here.
Your Sorin seems rather busted to me, particularly the flip side abilities. It’s got a similar play pattern to Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker in that you kill a 4 power creature, then beat your opponent down with a 4/4 flier. This card is a full mana cheaper and can do a ton of other things, including making itself virtually immune to damage-based removal. I generally like the play pattern and synergy between other abilities and would happily play this at 5 mana, though I don’t foresee myself using the discard mode often.
Cubetutor Link
Quick design off the top of my head. This is the curve topper red aggro needs but it scales well into the late game as well. Couldn't have this hit players too as that would make an already pushed design too good to print I think.
Rushing Lavaswell XRR
Creature - Elemental (R)
Haste
Rushing Lavaswell enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
When Rushing Lavaswell enters the battlefield it deals X damage to target creature or planeswalker.
2/1
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffEven at base 0/0 this thing seems pretty pushed. Shave haste and make it a 0/0 and it's still probably worth considering. As it stands, this is way too good.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
How about these...
The triple colored mana cycle in Dominaria got me thinking about what would get me to pay that cost in cube and this is what I came up with.
Hypnotic Necromancer BBB
Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Deathtouch, Menace
Whenever Hypnotic Necromancer deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card at random. If a creature card is discarded this way put it onto the battlefield under your control instead.
2/2
On a less complex note I also designed this guy for G/x aggro and +1/+1 counter themes.
Swelling Ooze G
Creature - Ooze (R)
At the beginning of your upkeep if you did not place any +1/+1 counters on Swelling Ooze during your last turn, place a +1/+1 counter on Swelling Ooze.
1/1
Flamewake Veteran 2R
Creature - Human Warrior {M}
3/3
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile the top three cards of your library face-down.
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, put a card exiled by it into your hand.
(CubeTutor & MTGS)
360 Peasant Cube!
Custom Cube
RWU Miracles RWU
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffThat's interesting, but I feel like it should be "whenever it deals damage" so it's more proactive.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Warning: Not for the durdly-hearted!
Wrong thread
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
3BB
zombie manipulator
When Creature enters the battle field create 3 2/2 zombie tokens
While Creatue is on the battle field, Other zombies you control get -1/-1
While Creature is in your graveyeard, Other Zombies you control get +1/ +1
1/1
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/63569
Also, follow us on twitter! @TurnOneMagic
[180 classic cube]
Demos, Head of the Cabal 2BBB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard (M)
Hexproof
Pay 5 Life: Create a legendary 5/5 Black Demon token with flying named Belial, the Black Scourge.
Pay 10 Life: Destroy all creatures you don’t control.
Sacrifice Demos, Head of the Cabal: Return target legendary creature from your graveyard to the battlefield.
1/1
Notes: Wanted to toy with the idea of blood magic and high-risk, high-reward. Getting access to Plague Wind at 5CC is pretty sexy I would say. I also was feeling a bit inspired by the Legendary theme of Dominaria and so I chose to limit his reanimation ability to legendary creatures.
Hypnoxia, Specter Queen 3BB
Legendary Creature - Specter(M)
Haste, Flying
When Hypnoxia Specter Queen enters the battlefield you may look at target opponent’s hand.
Whenever Hypnoxia Specter Queen attacks you may name a card. The defending player reveals their hand and discards all cards with that name.
3/4
Notes: Black is getting haste because it's a legendary mythic and because without it this might not be good enough. For 2 more than the original Hippy Specter you get Haste, +1/+2, the ability triggers on attack for assured value, and the ability lets you choose which card they discard each time provided you have any short-term memory.
Thrull Spawnsire 4B
Creature - Thrull (M)
When Thrull Spawnsire enters the battlefield create two 0/1 Black thrull tokens.
Thrulls you control get +2/+0
Thrull Spawnsire can be cast from your graveyard.
Sacrifice Thrull Spawnsire: Gain 1 life for each thrull you control.
0/1
Notes: It's my ideal black token engine. It creates bodies, it pumps those bodies, it can be cast from the grave, and it can be sacrificed for sorely needed lifegain in black and then recast for more dudes next turn.