This thread will serve as a common place for forum members to post the cards they're currently testing, and report and compare results. When posting, please mention the relevant context: the kind of cube the cards are being tested in, and possibly a theme, archetype or emphasis that other cubes might not have.
Here's how you could present your test cases & reports:
Cube context: describe your cube in a few words, ie 450 power cube, 500+ commun/uncommon cube, etc.
New: these are the untried cards you want to give a test run. Almost any card can end up in the wrong pile, so if a new test case gets drafted but doesn't make the main deck once or twice, this can still qualify as a 'new test case'. Please explain why you chose to test out those particular cards, and what are your expectations.
Early phase: these are test cases that have been played once or twice, enough for you to report on your initial impressions of the cards' worth in your cube. Some test cases may still be unplayed after coming up in the draft a couple times; this could be coincidental, or a signal.
Late phase: this is when your opinion is almost fully formed on the worth of a card in your cube. Alternatively, this could be a test case that has been included for a while but is never played, which of course is a message on itself. You should be ready or almost ready to pass the verdict on these cards for your next update. Please let us know which way you're leaning!
Of course, if you don't like this way of presentation, do it in whichever way you like best.
When reporting on a test case, if relevant please provide some additional information on the archetype or theme the card fits in. For example, the presence of other similar cards already in your cube, a theme pushed harder in your cube than in most, you name it.
Wretched Anurid: we wanted another 1B aggro creature, this seemed to be the best one (after Dark Confidant, Dauthi Horror, Nezumi Graverobber and Oona's Prowler) Enclave Cryptologist: replaces Thought Courier as 3rd looter. If the performance of the other level-up test cases are any indication, outlook seems good. Frantic Search: more instant speed card selection, and free to boot: seems good. Momentous Fall: has great potential, it remains to be seen if it can live up to it. Consistency seems a possible issue. Chrome Mox: acceleration is so important that this must be good. Also, can be run in a land slot. Armadillo Cloak: returns to the cube now that aggro is much more likely. Still, the risk of 2-for-1 is a big concern.
Early phase:
Inkfathom Infiltrator: has been played the several times it has been drafted, and performed adequately as another Dauthi. It's run in the black section, and it's been exclusively played in black decks, which proves that was a logical choice. Coralhelm Commander: played once, and was solid. Does lots of damage in a hurry. I like it. Nice addition to blue's aggressive non-finisher creatures suite (Serendib Efreet,Wake Thrasher, Vendilion Clique). Joraga Treespeaker: performed as expected, which means she's been good and will stay. A couple more showings with similar results and we'll consider her a permanent resident. Vengevine: better than expected so far! Seems really solid. Greatest play was Upheaval with Vengevine in the 'yard with the possibility to play a Llanowar and a Looter the turn after. Scoop! Devastating Summons: played once, and one game was won on its back; still seems risky and hard to time. I'm still skeptical. Kargan Dragonlord: was MUCH better than I thought. I expected this to be borderline playable because of little competition in its slot, but it was quite good. This creature has forced me to admit that I have underestimated the level-up mechanic. Mogg War Marshal: was run, and was surprisingly good. Sometimes the echo is paid, sometimes not - depends what the situation calls for. Viashino Slaughtermaster: was decent and at times great with equipment. As good as I had hoped he'd be (which means better than expected). Lone Missionary: just as good as I thought it would be. Aggro hates to see this land on the other side of the board! All is Dust: it was drafted, main-decked and used to good effect. So far, looking good. Gelectrode: got main-decked and hit the table, which in itself is more than its predecessor Niv-Miz has done for us in a long while. Looks like the swap was good.
Late phase:
Krosan Grip: seems to play out as we thought, it fills the same role as Naturalize, but better, and the extra 1 is mostly irrelevant. I think this swap will stick. Oracle of Mul Daya: has been in the cube for a while, but hasn't really been used all that effectively (or not at all). Not sure if this will stick around. Doubling Season: has done absolutely nothing in the time it's been in. Ready for the chopping block as far as I'm concerned. Mold Shambler: has been used and was handy, but still seems expensive. Undecided if it will stay - it's in practice not much better than Desert Twister. Eight-and-a-half-tails: has done nothing for us during the time it's been in, just a vanilla 2/2 for WW. Consensus says it's great, but there you have it. Kor Skyfisher: good as is, great with a mox and with ETB abilities, or to re-use an activated ability, or reset a planeswalker - overall really good. A keeper as far as I'm concerned.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Wretched Anurid: we wanted another 1B aggro creature, this seemed to be the best one (after Dark Confidant, Dauthi Horror, Nezumi Graverobber and Oona's Prowler)
Try Corrupted Zendikon, was fantastic as a hasty 3 drops beater that they never ever wanted to trade with. Enclave Cryptologist: replaces Thought Courier as 3rd looter. If the performance of the other level-up test cases are any indication, outlook seems good. Frantic Search: more instant speed card selection, and free to boot: seems good. Momentous Fall: has great potential, it remains to be seen if it can live up to it. Consistency seems a possible issue.
Problem isn't the card but the cost, Green loves its 4 mana spells and I don't think it can afford another unless it turns out to be instane. Chrome Mox: acceleration is so important that this must be good. Also, can be run in a land slot.
We had mediocre results but results vary, some love it. Armadillo Cloak: returns to the cube now that aggro is much more likely. Still, the risk of 2-for-1 is a big concern.
Early phase:
Inkfathom Infiltrator: has been played the several times it has been drafted, and performed adequately as another Dauthi. It's run in the black section, and it's been exclusively played in black decks, which proves that was a logical choice. Coralhelm Commander: played once, and was solid. Does lots of damage in a hurry. I like it. Nice addition to blue's aggressive non-finisher creatures suite (Serendib Efreet,Wake Thrasher, Vendilion Clique).
Been thinking about him for a while, with this and the level up guy that can turn unblockable + Wind Zendikon blue agro is looking more and more viable. Joraga Treespeaker: performed as expected, which means she's been good and will stay. A couple more showings with similar results and we'll consider her a permanent resident.
Simply awesome card Vengevine: better than expected so far! Seems really solid. Greatest play was Upheaval with Vengevine in the 'yard with the possibility to play a Llanowar and a Looter the turn after. Scoop!
Yea, we have loved it too, awesome with survival. Devastating Summons: played once, and one game was won on its back; still seems risky and hard to time. I'm still skeptical. Kargan Dragonlord: was MUCH better than I thought. I expected this to be borderline playable because of little competition in its slot, but it was quite good. This creature has forced me to admit that I have underestimated the level-up mechanic.
All the levelup guys are surprisingly good. Dragonlord and student are fing insane...even master is prity good. Mogg War Marshal: was run, and was surprisingly good. Sometimes the echo is paid, sometimes not - depends what the situation calls for.
Had it for a long time, always loved it, lots of great ways to combo it. Viashino Slaughtermaster: was decent and at times great with equipment. As good as I had hoped he'd be (which means better than expected). Lone Missionary: just as good as I thought it would be. Aggro hates to see this land on the other side of the board!
I personally don't have room for it in my white 2 drops, but good to know that it was good. All is Dust: it was drafted, main-decked and used to good effect. So far, looking good. Gelectrode: got main-decked and hit the table, which in itself is more than its predecessor Niv-Miz has done for us in a long while. Looks like the swap was good.
Late phase:
Krosan Grip: seems to play out as we thought, it fills the same role as Naturalize, but better, and the extra 1 is mostly irrelevant. I think this swap will stick. Oracle of Mul Daya: has been in the cube for a while, but hasn't really been used all that effectively (or not at all). Not sure if this will stick around.
I'm very surprised by this, it always is drafted and used to good effect in our cube. Doubling Season: has done absolutely nothing in the time it's been in. Ready for the chopping block as far as I'm concerned. Mold Shambler: has been used and was handy, but still seems expensive. Undecided if it will stay - it's in practice not much better than Desert Twister. Eight-and-a-half-tails: has done nothing for us during the time it's been in, just a vanilla 2/2 for WW. Consensus says it's great, but there you have it. Kor Skyfisher: good as is, great with a mox and with ETB abilities, or to re-use an activated ability, or reset a planeswalker - overall really good. A keeper as far as I'm concerned.
@happy gilmore: why does nobody want to trade with corrupted zendikon? unless i'm missing something, they should be happy to: the creature dies AND they essentially boomerang your land for free. it's actually better than trading with a 3/3 hasty creature.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
@happy gilmore: why does nobody want to trade with corrupted zendikon? unless i'm missing something, they should be happy to: the creature dies AND they essentially boomerang your land for free. it's actually better than trading with a 3/3 hasty creature.
Probably because they need to use up their land if they want to attack with it, which might be more annoying to them than getting a land boomeranged.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
If you play a zendikon and need to use all your lands every turn, you cannot attack with it at all. So if my opponent seems mana-light I will not trade with his zendikon and deal with other threats first, wait for him to start using it for mana, THEN i will kill it to bounce his land and set him even further.
If you play a zendikon and need to use all your lands every turn, you cannot attack with it at all. So if my opponent seems mana-light I will not trade with his zendikon and deal with other threats first, wait for him to start using it for mana, THEN i will kill it to bounce his land and set him even further.
why not just trade with it, losing one card to his one + bouncing his land and setting him back a land drop earlier when it matters more, and save your removal for something you can't trade with?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
why not just trade with it, losing one card to his one + bouncing his land and setting him back a land drop, and save your removal to something you can't trade with?
Because he's not going to have a land drop every turn necessarily. Quite often someone will play Zendikon turn 3 and attack for 3, then play a 3 drop on turn 4 then attack for 3, then have no land on turn 5 and want to play their 4 drop, then 5 drop, and need the land that is enchanted. Even if they don't need it, the Zendikon is essentially setting their curve back a turn. Also, if they don't have a land drop, you give them one more mana if you block it as they get to untap the land. In preparation for situations like that, which happen more often that you would think reading ideal scenarios constantly on this board, I would advise not to trade your 3/3 or lightning bolt on turn 3-5 for your opponent's zendikon and wait to see if he starts needing the land for other stuff later on.
Anyway, that's just how I played against the card in the numerous ZZW drafts I have done, and thoughts about how it was the most annoying to have people play against me when I had the card on my side.
I always swing with the genju and zendkian if the board is free of blockers I would never trade the land/creature on purpose but it helps for some great aggro
Its partially for the reasons above, But also because I run essentially 12 fetch lands that can be used with it to good effect. Being both a great early beater as well as late game hasty that is unsuspecting in black. Definitely better than anurid if you looking for a creature like this. It is slightly more flexible than a card like Nezumi Cutthroat.
i get why you wouldn't want to bolt the dude, but saying you shouldn't trade with a creature because he might need the land later sounds like saying you shouldn't stone rain a land and instead wait and see if they need the land later. maybe i'm just not understanding what you're saying?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i get why you wouldn't want to bolt the dude, but saying you shouldn't trade with a creature because he might need the land later sounds like saying you shouldn't stone rain a land and instead wait and see if they need the land later. maybe i'm just not understanding what you're saying?
Well if I have a creature that is not tied to a land that is big enough to trade, I'd rather race with it and let him 2 for 1 himself with his enchant land.
Well if I have a creature that is not tied to a land that is big enough to trade, I'd rather race with it and let him 2 for 1 himself with his enchant land.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
One man's staple is another man's test case Outlook on Thirst is pretty good. We're a bit suspicious of Mannequin's performance because of the fragility of the reanimated creature, but we'll see how it does. I don't think it came up in the draft we did after the update though.
About Corrupted Zendikon, I must admit I never even considered it. I've no experience with it whatsoever, but word is that it was good in limited - which doesn't say much. On paper it doesn't look that great to me, although in aggro the 'occupation' of a single land isn't that annoying, and if it dies you get it back... Could be interesting, I'll throw it on the table during the next cube session.
In all my experiences with Makeshift Mannequin, I've only seen a creature removed due to targeting a few times. More often than not, they don't want to waste the spell on the creature. Also, if you have enough etb triggers, it really doesn't matter as much if they kill it.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
Even if the creature coming into play doesn't have a 187 ability, sometimes its great just to get an instant speed blocker in there to kill something your opponent didnt see coming.
Yup, that pretty much sums up the reasons to include it. Hopefully it'll be as good as we hope it will be, more good reanimation spells is always nice to have.
Here's how you could present your test cases & reports:
Cube context: describe your cube in a few words, ie 450 power cube, 500+ commun/uncommon cube, etc.
New: these are the untried cards you want to give a test run. Almost any card can end up in the wrong pile, so if a new test case gets drafted but doesn't make the main deck once or twice, this can still qualify as a 'new test case'. Please explain why you chose to test out those particular cards, and what are your expectations.
Early phase: these are test cases that have been played once or twice, enough for you to report on your initial impressions of the cards' worth in your cube. Some test cases may still be unplayed after coming up in the draft a couple times; this could be coincidental, or a signal.
Late phase: this is when your opinion is almost fully formed on the worth of a card in your cube. Alternatively, this could be a test case that has been included for a while but is never played, which of course is a message on itself. You should be ready or almost ready to pass the verdict on these cards for your next update. Please let us know which way you're leaning!
Of course, if you don't like this way of presentation, do it in whichever way you like best.
When reporting on a test case, if relevant please provide some additional information on the archetype or theme the card fits in. For example, the presence of other similar cards already in your cube, a theme pushed harder in your cube than in most, you name it.
Cube context: 565 power cube
New:
Wretched Anurid: we wanted another 1B aggro creature, this seemed to be the best one (after Dark Confidant, Dauthi Horror, Nezumi Graverobber and Oona's Prowler)
Enclave Cryptologist: replaces Thought Courier as 3rd looter. If the performance of the other level-up test cases are any indication, outlook seems good.
Frantic Search: more instant speed card selection, and free to boot: seems good.
Momentous Fall: has great potential, it remains to be seen if it can live up to it. Consistency seems a possible issue.
Chrome Mox: acceleration is so important that this must be good. Also, can be run in a land slot.
Armadillo Cloak: returns to the cube now that aggro is much more likely. Still, the risk of 2-for-1 is a big concern.
Early phase:
Inkfathom Infiltrator: has been played the several times it has been drafted, and performed adequately as another Dauthi. It's run in the black section, and it's been exclusively played in black decks, which proves that was a logical choice.
Coralhelm Commander: played once, and was solid. Does lots of damage in a hurry. I like it. Nice addition to blue's aggressive non-finisher creatures suite (Serendib Efreet, Wake Thrasher, Vendilion Clique).
Joraga Treespeaker: performed as expected, which means she's been good and will stay. A couple more showings with similar results and we'll consider her a permanent resident.
Vengevine: better than expected so far! Seems really solid. Greatest play was Upheaval with Vengevine in the 'yard with the possibility to play a Llanowar and a Looter the turn after. Scoop!
Devastating Summons: played once, and one game was won on its back; still seems risky and hard to time. I'm still skeptical.
Kargan Dragonlord: was MUCH better than I thought. I expected this to be borderline playable because of little competition in its slot, but it was quite good. This creature has forced me to admit that I have underestimated the level-up mechanic.
Mogg War Marshal: was run, and was surprisingly good. Sometimes the echo is paid, sometimes not - depends what the situation calls for.
Viashino Slaughtermaster: was decent and at times great with equipment. As good as I had hoped he'd be (which means better than expected).
Lone Missionary: just as good as I thought it would be. Aggro hates to see this land on the other side of the board!
All is Dust: it was drafted, main-decked and used to good effect. So far, looking good.
Gelectrode: got main-decked and hit the table, which in itself is more than its predecessor Niv-Miz has done for us in a long while. Looks like the swap was good.
Late phase:
Krosan Grip: seems to play out as we thought, it fills the same role as Naturalize, but better, and the extra 1 is mostly irrelevant. I think this swap will stick.
Oracle of Mul Daya: has been in the cube for a while, but hasn't really been used all that effectively (or not at all). Not sure if this will stick around.
Doubling Season: has done absolutely nothing in the time it's been in. Ready for the chopping block as far as I'm concerned.
Mold Shambler: has been used and was handy, but still seems expensive. Undecided if it will stay - it's in practice not much better than Desert Twister.
Eight-and-a-half-tails: has done nothing for us during the time it's been in, just a vanilla 2/2 for WW. Consensus says it's great, but there you have it.
Kor Skyfisher: good as is, great with a mox and with ETB abilities, or to re-use an activated ability, or reset a planeswalker - overall really good. A keeper as far as I'm concerned.
see inserts ^
http://hgcube.blogspot.com/ (help me Make my Custom CUBE!)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=382498
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MY LEGACY ALTERS
Probably because they need to use up their land if they want to attack with it, which might be more annoying to them than getting a land boomeranged.
i don't understand what you're saying.
If you play a zendikon and need to use all your lands every turn, you cannot attack with it at all. So if my opponent seems mana-light I will not trade with his zendikon and deal with other threats first, wait for him to start using it for mana, THEN i will kill it to bounce his land and set him even further.
why not just trade with it, losing one card to his one + bouncing his land and setting him back a land drop earlier when it matters more, and save your removal for something you can't trade with?
Because he's not going to have a land drop every turn necessarily. Quite often someone will play Zendikon turn 3 and attack for 3, then play a 3 drop on turn 4 then attack for 3, then have no land on turn 5 and want to play their 4 drop, then 5 drop, and need the land that is enchanted. Even if they don't need it, the Zendikon is essentially setting their curve back a turn. Also, if they don't have a land drop, you give them one more mana if you block it as they get to untap the land. In preparation for situations like that, which happen more often that you would think reading ideal scenarios constantly on this board, I would advise not to trade your 3/3 or lightning bolt on turn 3-5 for your opponent's zendikon and wait to see if he starts needing the land for other stuff later on.
Anyway, that's just how I played against the card in the numerous ZZW drafts I have done, and thoughts about how it was the most annoying to have people play against me when I had the card on my side.
BTW, like this threat idea!
Cheers.
http://hgcube.blogspot.com/ (help me Make my Custom CUBE!)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=382498
The "Make a Proxy Thread
Redit Proxy Article "current gallery"
MY LEGACY ALTERS
that's pretty neat!
Well if I have a creature that is not tied to a land that is big enough to trade, I'd rather race with it and let him 2 for 1 himself with his enchant land.
yeah that makes sense, i get it now. thanks!
Our cube (now a 554 cube) had an update with the following changes to the test cases:
New: Makeshift Mannequin, Thirst for Knowledge
One man's staple is another man's test case Outlook on Thirst is pretty good. We're a bit suspicious of Mannequin's performance because of the fragility of the reanimated creature, but we'll see how it does. I don't think it came up in the draft we did after the update though.
Cuts: Doubling Season, Mold Shambler.
About Corrupted Zendikon, I must admit I never even considered it. I've no experience with it whatsoever, but word is that it was good in limited - which doesn't say much. On paper it doesn't look that great to me, although in aggro the 'occupation' of a single land isn't that annoying, and if it dies you get it back... Could be interesting, I'll throw it on the table during the next cube session.
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