May not be competitive, but who cares. Curse you Tocatli Honor Guard and Lava Coil. Credit to picnic_bomber, DemonicFirelord and lugger for ideas stolen and added here.
Ramp:
Wouldn't a deck like this need sac outlets? Like aristocrats?
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"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Sultai elves, now your talking, it may not have red's removal but it does get Poison-Tip Archer and black's removal. Though not sure if that creature fits the gameplan.
"To keep things 100, anything I state is an opinion and not intended to be a fact. Any and all suggestions I give are a 100% opinion. If you need further clarification take the conversation to a PM. I am not in the business of assuming things. I'm only interested in 1 business and that business serves 2 things, Cold L's and Hot Dub's."
Saffron Olive has a combotastic take on Vannifar dinosaurs here. Marvelous!
I really like his list. It's janky but looks like a bunch of fun. I do think I'd try and find room for a few copies of Domri, Chaos Bringer. The deck needs a lot of pieces and Domri can find two of them with his -3, not to mention being able to help ramp into bigger dino's if combo isn't working out but beatdown is AND he can enable a hasty Vannifar to combo off right away. I think he's a slam dunk in this deck. I'd put two copies in and shave off 2 copies of Incubation // Incongruity
I think I'd rather run Elvish Rejuvenator in the District Guide / Skittering Surveyor slot, as it gets and land and puts it directly into play, rather than just basics (not going to be alot to fetch in an 4-color deck) and into your hand. Also, putting cards on the bottom isn't that a big deal since if all goes to plan you are searching multiple times with Vannifar.
I like it! I had been thinking of Vampire Sovereign and have now added it to the OP. I like the focus on explore creatures. There is value to having 1 drops, in that a token can start the chain.
I love Elvish Rejuvenator, but when I whiff... I don't love it.
I have been magical Christmas dreaming of late game fetching Nicol Bolas, the Ravager and immediately activating him. So I will be working up a 4 color list including R.
Here is the start (26 land + 4 mana dorks + 4 District Guides seems excessive, so I need to tweak the manabase for sure):
Interesting! If we count Song as 4 R sources, I guess the mana works for Electodominance. It seems more reliable than Raff Capashen, which would also allow flashing in our favorite Elf Ooze Wizard.
I also like 4 Color lists, they can help the deck take on a solid toolbox. I'm going Temur with a Black splash for mine since most of the black cards I want only have one mana symbol. With druids and scouts and guides in the early game I'm not too worried about the mana and am gonna risk a basic 24 land deck to start. I really want to base the deck around Rhythm of the Wild as well, it can give Vannifar haste and just makes all the other already good creatures in the deck even better. I really wanted to find room for Electrodominance but decided that Incubation // Incongruity is just safer for now.
Seems like a fun thing to brew overall. You can actually have a giant mix of creatures -- just make sure your choices have ETB or dies effects for some extra juice, and make sure your more multiple creatures are helping the cause. I really think Militia Bugler is a huge bonus here (can filter up most of these creatures, including vannifar), although it might be good to cut down to 2-3 copies. And make sure whatever you take isn't impossible to cast.
Also feels like you could splash almost any colour for some fun effects
Nice! I like the Bugler and have added it to the OP.
I am curious about how your chains work going from 3 to 4. I see only Shalai and Vannifar at 4. I can easily see having Shalai in hand and not having anything to get with the Bugler once it's on board. And then, are you really going to want to sac your Shalai on board to tutor up a 5-drop?
Yeah, that's a good point. My 4 CMC count heavily included vannifar... Maybe I should slot in a couple Conclave Cavalier. I took it out because I thought it might an awkward hard cast if it ends up in your hand.
Riverwise Augur Might also be great just to fish for a good card, or even to place back a card you want to sac for.
Kumazemi got on the board with Temur Vannifar in the latest MTGO 5-0 deck dump! Seeing his list with the Oozes, I realized that the Ooze tribal benefit buffs Vannifar also!
I want there to be a thread for Vannifar in Deck Creation. With my local responsibilities and deck archetype promiscuity, I would love it if someone else would start it. I can support with content and advice, and even take over if someone moves on, but would rather not take it on myself. Any takers? I think the archetype will be quite varied and interesting.
After a few too many prereleases (4), I am now the proud owner of two Vannifar. My latest version (semi-budget as I may ultimately prefer 3 Vannifar) is below. I hope to get some testing in tomorrow.
Given the very low amount of noncreature spells, is Nullhide Ferox a worthy card for the 4 slot? It can provide a ton of pressure to some decks, and it seems like a good ramp to the 5 slot if it Lyra would be better on the field.
Given the very low amount of noncreature spells, is Nullhide Ferox a worthy card for the 4 slot? It can provide a ton of pressure to some decks, and it seems like a good ramp to the 5 slot if it Lyra would be better on the field.
I like the card and I love it against Disinformation Campaign, but with no ETB benefits, I don't see it working that well. Cavalier seems good if the mana supports it. Augur seems okay. The four spot is a good reason to run B. Mansfield suggested Rekindling Phoenix, but that's a heavy R commitment.
Neoform is certainly interesting but the deck's don't play a lot of non-creatures so slots are tight. Maybe if there was a dedicated "combo" even a janky one. I am interested in testing it anyway.
Another card that may serve as a backup plan is Vivien's Arkbow. A strong 2-of contender.
Other than that, GUB PSV is both slow to get going AND it's vulnerable to both countermagic and removal. Rhythm of the Wild solves two of these problems. It's a complete game changer.
That Temur list looks good. Tons of mana and treasure dorks to ensure big T3 plays. PSV swaps them for real money later.
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May not be competitive, but who cares. Curse you Tocatli Honor Guard and Lava Coil. Credit to picnic_bomber, DemonicFirelord and lugger for ideas stolen and added here.
Ramp:
Beneficial creatures in main colors
Simic synergy:
Vannifar targets w/B splash:
Other synergy w/B splash:
Vannifar targets w/BB:
Support w/BB:
Vannifar targets w/W splash:
Vannifar targets w/WW:
Vannifar targets w/R splash:
Synergy w/R:
Vannifar targets w/RR:
Multicolor targets:
Multicolor support:
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 District Guide
2 Midnight Reaper
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Frilled Mystic
2 Golgari Findbroker
2 Hostage Taker
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Crested Herdcaller
1 Kraul Foragers
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Pelakka Wurm
2 Dead Weight
1 Golden Demise
Land (U B G)
4 Breeding Pool
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
2 Memorial to Folly
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 District Guide
2 Midnight Reaper
1 Frilled Mystic
2 Golgari Findbroker
2 Hostage Taker
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Crested Herdcaller
1 Kraul Foragers
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Pelakka Wurm
2 Dead Weight
1 Dive Down
1 Necrotic Wound
1 Find // Finality
Land (U B G)
4 Breeding Pool
1 Detection Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
2 Memorial to Folly
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Dead Weight
2 Duress
2 Cast down
2 Plague Mare
3 Ritual of Soot
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Phyrexian Scriptures
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Please help me fill in! Or suggest something better!! Particularly if you have a decklist in another color combination, please contribute.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
-Stay Frosty
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
*insert explore package*
Not an engine piece but Rhythm of the Savages might be very nice.
Well this can't beat a Tocatli Honor Guard huh.
This deck looks really cool and fun. I might tinker.
-Stay Frosty
and there is plenty of single targeted removal for Tocatli Honor Guard
-Stay Frosty
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
4 Seekers' Squire
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Midnight Reaper
1 Militia Bugler
4 Skittering Surveyor
2 Golgari Findbroker
1 Hostage Taker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Doom Whisperer
1 Trostani Discordant
1 Vampire Sovereign
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Journey to Eternity
1 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cast Down
2 Vraska's Contempt
2 Find // Finality
4 Breeding Pool
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
2 Memorial to Folly
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
MtG Sales List
I love Elvish Rejuvenator, but when I whiff... I don't love it.
I have been magical Christmas dreaming of late game fetching Nicol Bolas, the Ravager and immediately activating him. So I will be working up a 4 color list including R.
Here is the start (26 land + 4 mana dorks + 4 District Guides seems excessive, so I need to tweak the manabase for sure):
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 District Guide
2 Midnight Reaper
1 Frilled Mystic
1 Golgari Findbroker
2 Hostage Taker
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Crested Herdcaller
1 Vampire Sovereign
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Pelakka Wurm
Spells (4)
1 Dead Weight
1 Dive Down
1 Cast Down
1 Find // Finality
4 Breeding Pool
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forest
1 Gruul Guildgate
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
1 Memorial to Folly
1 Mountain
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Detection Tower
1 Dead Weight
2 Duress
2 Cast down
1 Plague Mare
2 Ritual of Soot
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Golgari Findbroker
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
1 Phyrexian Scriptures
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
3 Prime Speaker Vannifar
3 Rhythm of the Wild
The Chain (27)
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Incubation Druid
2 Merfolk Branchwalker
1 Kraul Harpooner
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
3 District Guide
1 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Midnight Reaper
1 Mirror Image
2 Frilled Mystic
2 Hostage Taker
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
3 Regisaur Alpha
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
2 Incubation // Incongruity
1 Find // Finality
The Lands (24)
4 Breeding Pool
3 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Seems like a fun thing to brew overall. You can actually have a giant mix of creatures -- just make sure your choices have ETB or dies effects for some extra juice, and make sure your more multiple creatures are helping the cause. I really think Militia Bugler is a huge bonus here (can filter up most of these creatures, including vannifar), although it might be good to cut down to 2-3 copies. And make sure whatever you take isn't impossible to cast.
Also feels like you could splash almost any colour for some fun effects
1x Azor, the Lawbringer
1x Carnage Tyrant
2x Deputy of Detention
1x Dream Eater
3x Growth-Chamber Guardian
2x Hydroid Krasis
4x Incubation Druid
2x Jadelight Ranger
1x Knight of Autumn
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
4x Militia Bugler
4x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Trostani Discordant
4x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
3x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Hinterland Harbor
1x Island
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
Instant (6)
2x Dive Down
4x Incubation / Incongruity
1x Deathgorge Scavenger
2x Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
1x Deputy of Detention
I am curious about how your chains work going from 3 to 4. I see only Shalai and Vannifar at 4. I can easily see having Shalai in hand and not having anything to get with the Bugler once it's on board. And then, are you really going to want to sac your Shalai on board to tutor up a 5-drop?
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Riverwise Augur Might also be great just to fish for a good card, or even to place back a card you want to sac for.
1x Azor, the Lawbringer
1x Carnage Tyrant
1x Conclave Cavalier
1x Riverwise Augur
2x Deputy of Detention
2x Hydroid Krasis
3x Incubation Druid
2x Jadelight Ranger
1x Knight of Autumn
4x Llanowar Elves
1x Lyra Dawnbringer
3x Merfolk Branchwalker
3x Militia Bugler
4x Prime Speaker Vannifar
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1x Trostani Discordant
1x Forest
3x Glacial Fortress
2x Hallowed Fountain
4x Hinterland Harbor
1x Island
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
2x Dive Down
4x Incubation / Incongruity
1x Deputy of Detention
1x Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
2x Tithe Taker
I want there to be a thread for Vannifar in Deck Creation. With my local responsibilities and deck archetype promiscuity, I would love it if someone else would start it. I can support with content and advice, and even take over if someone moves on, but would rather not take it on myself. Any takers? I think the archetype will be quite varied and interesting.
After a few too many prereleases (4), I am now the proud owner of two Vannifar. My latest version (semi-budget as I may ultimately prefer 3 Vannifar) is below. I hope to get some testing in tomorrow.
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Hostage Taker
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
2 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed
4 District Guide
1 Beast Whisperer
2 Prime Speaker Vannifar
2 Biogenic Ooze
3 Midnight Reaper
1 Golgari Findbroker
1 Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
1 Ravager Wurm
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Pelakka Wurm
2 Dead Weight
Land
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
4 Stomping Ground
4 Breeding Pool
1 Rakdos Guildgate
Instant
1 Dive Down
Sorcery
1 Find // Finality
2 Lava Coil
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Plague Mare
1 Golgari Findbroker
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Dead Weight
2 Duress
2 Lava Coil
2 Cry of the Carnarium
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 Domri, Chaos Bringer
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
Rescuer Sphinx seems fun, but not that powerful.
Neoforming a Jadelight Ranger or Midnight Reaper to get Vannifar seems intriguing, although it's a 1 for 2. Don't let it get countered, though.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
CUBE: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/73964;jsessionid=2DE1F5FF41A24820A137448A2FD5CF8F
I LIKE DRAGONS!
Strong filtering is a must in silver-bullet-style decks. Incubation // Incongruity looks like a no-brainer 4-of. It even answers the Tocatli Honor Guard problem.
Another card that may serve as a backup plan is Vivien's Arkbow. A strong 2-of contender.
Other than that, GUB PSV is both slow to get going AND it's vulnerable to both countermagic and removal.
Rhythm of the Wild solves two of these problems. It's a complete game changer.
That Temur list looks good. Tons of mana and treasure dorks to ensure big T3 plays. PSV swaps them for real money later.