@Duxx
There are a lot of cards that punish an early pat rat openings, like D-sphere, verdict, blight, and other cards that make that kind of opening slow such as caryatids, courser, and early agro creatures. Pat Rat is not as good vs a prepared meta.
Splashing a color gives the deck better sideboard cards.
@Duxx
There are a lot of cards that punish an early pat rat openings, like D-sphere, verdict, blight, and other cards that make that kind of opening slow such as caryatids, courser, and early agro creatures. Pat Rat is not as good vs a prepared meta.
Splashing a color gives the deck better sideboard cards.
Agree on Pack Rat. However, splashes aren't only for sideboard cards. Red gives us maindeck Mortars and RR, white gets BBoV, Obzedat, and Last Breath.
But in a MBD (MONO-Black Devotion) your manabase is diluted. If your going to run 4x Temple of X and 4x Blood Crypt you better hope you draw them. I wouldn't want to be "that Guy" who is drawing all swamps/Mutavaults and holding a Mortars or RR just waiting for one land. It's not likely but it can (and I have seen) it happen. As great as those 2 cards are I wouldn't want to count on them playing against a fast aggro deck. Or, not seeing a MM or RR because your only playing 2 of each.
It's just my opinion.
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duxx is right but those decks can work, also about taking down two tourneys, that isnt surprising deckists get tested and used alot its more a popularity contest atm.
All I am saying is the shell is all that matters what you do splash wise is more of a playstyle/tech.
-MH
Sorry its been awhile since I've posted... I've been busy play testing and revamping my version of MBD after GP Cinci.
A few things I have realized about mono black...
1) Pack rat is amazing. As much as I hate the card (and civilwargoat is correct, there are tons of cards that can punish early packrat) its too good not to run.
It will win you more games that you have no business winning than anything else.... so it stays. I could see the argument that 4 pack rats is too much, but I strongly feel you don't want to go below 3. Another thing about packrat: it helps with terrible hands. It can be the difference between victory and defeat if you get mana screwed or mana flooded.
2) You can't let adding a splash color change your game plan. MBD has the same strategy in mind... no matter what type of color you splash.
3) Zombie vs Specter is 100% personal preference. I have championed specter forever, but have recently switched back to specter. In the grand scheme of things... I can't really notice any difference.
I agree 100% with goat also that PR get punished. But if he does, then it's an open door for Specter/Zombie. That was the point I was trying to make, along with how important a T1 Duress/Seize is.
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To clarify I am not advocating cutting pack rat only that turn 2 RAT doesn't mean turn 3 make a rat. Spectre loses alot of value in decks that splash because often you will have to run some number of off color basics. As for the color screw in properly built mana bases your more likely to experience mana screw more often than color screw. Does it happen...sure but it can be mitigated thru card choices.
Test magma jet in the red splash you might be surprised.
I think there is no right or wrong if a splash is worth it or not. On one hand you have people including pros saying that Mono-Black doesnt cut it anymore and then you have on the other Mono-Black decks winning tournaments left and right be it online or big events like GP Beijing for example.
Im in the camp of liking the traditional approach with Pack Rats and being Mono-Black but everyone needs to figure out for himself if that is to his liking or not.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
What I'm saying is that in a prepared meta, it's never that good. And yes, Thoughtseize + Pack Rat is an awesome combo, but so is Thoughtseize + any other creature that's relevant once it's on board.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
What I'm saying is that in a prepared meta, it's never that good. And yes, Thoughtseize + Pack Rat is an awesome combo, but so is Thoughtseize + any other creature that's relevant once it's on board.
I know what you are saying. Experience has proven otherwise for me.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
Thoughtsieze and duress don't stop the top of your opponents deck from blowing you out of games. That is the underlying problem with pack rat. Its all in all the time an if its not then it is as close to a dead card as you can be without being a dead card.
On the Pack Rat debate, the main reason I don't like it is that it can lead to massive blowouts if you overcommit to it, and it's a bad card if you don't. If there weren't so many answers to it in Standard right now, I'd be running four.
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
Thoughtsieze and duress don't stop the top of your opponents deck from blowing you out of games. That is the underlying problem with pack rat. Its all in all the time an if its not then it is as close to a dead card as you can be without being a dead card.
Once again... from my experience I have to disagree. Pack rat doesn't have to be "all in" to be useful.
you are right and that is a far point you dont ahve to be all in on it. but when you are not your spending 5 mana for 2 2/2's over 2 turns, not that great.
The thing that always reminds me of how great the Rat is is that late in the game, in a top deck war the threat i want to draw the most is Mr Rat, how many other decks can say that about their two drop?
Oh also some times its the only spell you cast.
When you cast it on turn two your opponent has to respect it, period, end of discussion, if they don't they are in serious trouble.
Yes there are Decks that its bad against, anything UW or BB. However if you are leaning on your two drop to get the job done against the two heaviest removal decks in the format you're asking for trouble. Why do people assume that if Rat isn't winning every game its bad? Mono Black is the King of attrition, King of small, grindy advantages, sure sometimes your opponent has two kill spells for both rats, but guess what you discarded a land to make that second one, so you're up just a tiny, little bit. Maybe you go all in on pack rat and get blown out, well to be honest its your own fault. we all know the cards that can deal with it once it gets going so play around it. Playing against control game one? make two rats (the second on their end step) and just never make another, they have to deal with them as you can threaten lethal out of nowhere.
I really don't understand the Rat hate, yes there are other cards, but what other two drop in the format has such an impact on the game whether its cast on T2 or T20? Don't look at it as Plan A, and then criticize it when it doesn't finish the game. Instead accept that it did its job, dealt some damage and ate a removal spell. Then untap, play desecration demon and laugh maniacally whilst you Demon their face off.
Pack Rat is great in a lot of matchups. However, it's awful against the two best decks in the format. I'm thinking about playing a couple in my sideboard for Phoenix, but I don't really want it in my maindeck. Your arguments are all valid on paper, but here's what realistically happens in the mirror or against Esper:
"LOOK! I JUST WASTED THREE TURNS TO MAKE... TWO GRIZZLY BEARS!"
"D-Sphere."
Now the opponent is up a card in what's effectively a control mirror. Not good.
Gentlemen, I went to FNM tonight and didn't lose a match. I have been playing this deck a long time and I know I have been trying to adapt to the ever changing meta. I have tried splashing white, and red and I still always come back to the thing I know best straight black. Now I can understand it everyone in the forum thinks my opinion may be no good because I have flip flopped back and fourth about the pact rat. I can tell you tonight all of my matches went to game 3 and I won 5 out of 6 off the back of pack rat. Axman and Bloood Artist make great point about not going all in with pack rat. My last match of the night was against control and I had a rat and a token. I attacked for 4 and then activated 2 vaults for 8 damage! Yes he D-sphered them the next turn but it was already too late. I drew a card off connections and killed him with vaults and Gary's. I do like splashing but the overall consistency of mono black is unmatched. I'm back to 1 color and pact rat and loving the results.
You've converted me to the Pack Rat side as well. However, I'm still undecided as to whether I should maindeck it or not tomorrow. With the recent success of Mono-B and Bx, and all the pros writing articles on how good Esper is, I'm hesitant to mainboard the Rat.
I would recommend that you do main deck them. Although esper is a tough matchup they have to answer the rat or die. That's the bottom line. I debated running 25 lands but stuck with 26. I highly recommend that we run 26. I know all the Japanese decks that top 8ed run 25, but I was fishing the deck before FNM and I slid the 26th land in at the last second and didn't regret it for a second. I also main decked 2 godless shrines and 4 temple of silence to splash to revoke existence in the board. I didn't bring them in all night but it was a nice security blanket to know I had an answer to the gods and detention sphere.
I have to agree with PJI (and as I've been saying all along) mono is the way to go. Last night I went 2-1, in a 26 man FNM, only losing to R/B aggro cause I couldn't draw the answers I needed G3. I easily beat him G2 with (Duress from the board) & Seize. Pack Rat does his work. He got rid of him G2, only to let me drop DD & Gary for the game. Gary is back breaking if you have a UC on the board, as it's usually a 5-7 point swing in your favor. I can almost see splashing for for Revoke, but I'm not sold on it just yet. That's why we run Seize and Duress. That's a total of 7 ways to get rid of problem cards.
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Hey there, I'm jumping back into standard and wanted to start fiddling around with Mono Black. Is there a good stock list for the pure black version? I'm also interested in the red splash but I wanna start with the pure black version first.
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The version that splashes red also took down the starcity invitational as well.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
There are a lot of cards that punish an early pat rat openings, like D-sphere, verdict, blight, and other cards that make that kind of opening slow such as caryatids, courser, and early agro creatures. Pat Rat is not as good vs a prepared meta.
Splashing a color gives the deck better sideboard cards.
Agree on Pack Rat. However, splashes aren't only for sideboard cards. Red gives us maindeck Mortars and RR, white gets BBoV, Obzedat, and Last Breath.
It's just my opinion.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
All I am saying is the shell is all that matters what you do splash wise is more of a playstyle/tech.
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
A few things I have realized about mono black...
1) Pack rat is amazing. As much as I hate the card (and civilwargoat is correct, there are tons of cards that can punish early packrat) its too good not to run.
It will win you more games that you have no business winning than anything else.... so it stays. I could see the argument that 4 pack rats is too much, but I strongly feel you don't want to go below 3. Another thing about packrat: it helps with terrible hands. It can be the difference between victory and defeat if you get mana screwed or mana flooded.
2) You can't let adding a splash color change your game plan. MBD has the same strategy in mind... no matter what type of color you splash.
3) Zombie vs Specter is 100% personal preference. I have championed specter forever, but have recently switched back to specter. In the grand scheme of things... I can't really notice any difference.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Test magma jet in the red splash you might be surprised.
Posted from my phone hope it makes sense.
Im in the camp of liking the traditional approach with Pack Rats and being Mono-Black but everyone needs to figure out for himself if that is to his liking or not.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
That can be the case with any strategy if you over-commit to it. With x4 thoughtseize (and x4 duress in side) pack rats becomes far greater of a threat.
Also... pack rat is a card that depends fully on whether you are on the draw or play.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
What I'm saying is that in a prepared meta, it's never that good. And yes, Thoughtseize + Pack Rat is an awesome combo, but so is Thoughtseize + any other creature that's relevant once it's on board.
I know what you are saying. Experience has proven otherwise for me.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Thoughtsieze and duress don't stop the top of your opponents deck from blowing you out of games. That is the underlying problem with pack rat. Its all in all the time an if its not then it is as close to a dead card as you can be without being a dead card.
Once again... from my experience I have to disagree. Pack rat doesn't have to be "all in" to be useful.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Oh also some times its the only spell you cast.
When you cast it on turn two your opponent has to respect it, period, end of discussion, if they don't they are in serious trouble.
Yes there are Decks that its bad against, anything UW or BB. However if you are leaning on your two drop to get the job done against the two heaviest removal decks in the format you're asking for trouble. Why do people assume that if Rat isn't winning every game its bad? Mono Black is the King of attrition, King of small, grindy advantages, sure sometimes your opponent has two kill spells for both rats, but guess what you discarded a land to make that second one, so you're up just a tiny, little bit. Maybe you go all in on pack rat and get blown out, well to be honest its your own fault. we all know the cards that can deal with it once it gets going so play around it. Playing against control game one? make two rats (the second on their end step) and just never make another, they have to deal with them as you can threaten lethal out of nowhere.
I really don't understand the Rat hate, yes there are other cards, but what other two drop in the format has such an impact on the game whether its cast on T2 or T20? Don't look at it as Plan A, and then criticize it when it doesn't finish the game. Instead accept that it did its job, dealt some damage and ate a removal spell. Then untap, play desecration demon and laugh maniacally whilst you Demon their face off.
/Rant
TLDR: "LEAVE PACK RAT ALONE!!!!!!!"
"LOOK! I JUST WASTED THREE TURNS TO MAKE... TWO GRIZZLY BEARS!"
"D-Sphere."
Now the opponent is up a card in what's effectively a control mirror. Not good.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....