I actually think splashing might be good for improving the Boros Burn matchup. With white, you get BBoV and Sin Collector, with blue, Master of Waves and Dispel. If you don't want to splash, more copies of Erebos and his Whip in the board might do the trick.
I want the whip to work in the worst way, but we don't run enough creatures IMO. Unless you start discarding creatures to make Rats, but then it only CMC 3 for a rat, not CMC 4 so the whip isn't viable.
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I want the whip to work in the worst way, but we don't run enough creatures IMO. Unless you start discarding creatures to make Rats, but then it only CMC 3 for a rat, not CMC 4 so the whip isn't viable.
Yeah, I guess the only way to really make the matchup better is splashing. I'd personally recommend blue, but a lot more people like white. I'm an advocate of a blue splash because it has reasonable advantages with minimal drawbacks, where as white's advantages are trivial. I'm still undecided as to whether I'm going to run straight Mono-B or splash blue in Phoenix, but I'm leaning toward the splash.
Wow. Mono-B didn't put a single player in the top 8 in Cincy OR LA. What went wrong?
EDIT: There were two Orzhov decks in the top 8 in Cincy, but still...
Well Esper Control happened there probably.
Esper Control happened. At least now everyone's gunning for them instead of us.
Well I will stick with the Sphinx's Revelation side for the time being
It's so customizable that im not that afraid of hate.
I also dont like right now how often all your removal is blanked because you play against Burn decks or Control decks or Hexproof decks. That is a bit of a structural problem of the black decks.
I just dont like auto-losing because a guy managed to put a a bunch of auras on his guy and I have a Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall in hand.
Not saying that Black devotion is bad or anything. It still put up results after all. I just hate losing games like that to such stupid strategies.
Wow. Mono-B didn't put a single player in the top 8 in Cincy OR LA. What went wrong?
EDIT: There were two Orzhov decks in the top 8 in Cincy, but still...
Well Esper Control happened there probably.
Esper Control happened. At least now everyone's gunning for them instead of us.
Well I will stick with the Sphinx's Revelation side for the time being
It's so customizable that im not that afraid of hate.
I also dont like right now how often all your removal is blanked because you play against Burn decks or Control decks or Hexproof decks. That is a bit of a structural problem of the black decks.
I just dont like auto-losing because a guy managed to put a a bunch of auras on his guy and I have a Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall in hand.
Not saying that Black devotion is bad or anything. It still put up results after all. I just hate losing games like that to such stupid strategies.
Then we can just run removal that doesn't get blanked so easily. With a wide-open meta dominated by control, it's not such a bad idea.
Wow. Mono-B didn't put a single player in the top 8 in Cincy OR LA. What went wrong?
EDIT: There were two Orzhov decks in the top 8 in Cincy, but still...
Well Esper Control happened there probably.
Esper Control happened. At least now everyone's gunning for them instead of us.
Well I will stick with the Sphinx's Revelation side for the time being
It's so customizable that im not that afraid of hate.
I also dont like right now how often all your removal is blanked because you play against Burn decks or Control decks or Hexproof decks. That is a bit of a structural problem of the black decks.
I just dont like auto-losing because a guy managed to put a a bunch of auras on his guy and I have a Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall in hand.
Not saying that Black devotion is bad or anything. It still put up results after all. I just hate losing games like that to such stupid strategies.
Then we can just run removal that doesn't get blanked so easily. With a wide-open meta dominated by control, it's not such a bad idea.
Going back to four Devour Flesh doesn't sound bad right now. A lot of Blood Barons are going around lately, and I hear Hexproof is starting to be a thing again. You still need to have other spot removal to clear the way of course, I think some number of Blight and Downfall are still best for that.
Maybe cutting DB from the main for a pair of Duress would be enough. Duress solves many of the problems that you mentioned, and it's especially good in a format where Esper is top dog.
Played in the main event in Cinci on sat, and Control, Burn, and Hexproof were out in larger numbers then I had planned on. I meta'd assuming more RG based decks and ran into a ton of Bw and Esper. If this trend continues I'd keep duress and go back to 4 devour main. I ran a lot better on Sunday in sides after changing my list to be more setup for Bx and Control.
I feel like the B/r devotion list that Eric Froehlich got 13th at Cincy with is a very interesting take on the deck. Especially with the current meta dominated by control variants.
The only changes I might make is cutting some number of lifebanes for a couple nightveils or pack rats and trying to cut a spell for another creature.
It just feels like the devotion in this deck is often a bit lower then normal, and maybe that doesn't matter but my first instinct is that it's just a 'little' too low currently. If I could find an easy way to get up to 14/15 creatures, without cutting underworld connections or whip, that'd be my only change.
Anyways, obviously the Rakdos' Return are amazing and I've been looking for a good deck to play them in. For weeks various pros have said that card is seriously under played and under appreciated. I've felt the same since Born came out, and even tried a jund shell at FNM one week just for the Caryatid into Xenagos into Return for 5 on turn 4 magical christmasland scenario.
Sire of Insanity, Slaughter Games and Duress out of the side will wreck control. The mono-black core has a good chance against almost anything else. On paper the R/W burn matchup might seem weak due to shock lands/connection/thoughtseize, but unless they draw very well and you don't see devour flesh + D-demon or Whip of Erebos, I'm not super concerned. It likely plays out similar to my B/W deck's matchup against them, where you stabilize at 4/5 life on turn 6 and then if you draw something to gain life before they draw two more burn spells, you win.
So, basically with the current meta of Esper, B/W mid range, mono-black and R/W burn. The Black devotion splash red seems very well positioned.
Pretty red heavy land wise considering only 2 MB red source, which requires only XBR and BR. I would swap out the guildgates (which are slow with no scry) for 2 Rakdos Keyrunes, which will help accelerate a bit (with both R/B mana) and help you stymie aggro with a 3-1 firststriker.
Is rakdos keyrune what we want to be doing on turn 3? Cutting the 2 guildgates puts us 24 land which is way too low in my opinion.I like the look of this deck as well, which puts my previous notion of not splashing a color completely incorrect. Of course E-Fro is an exponentially better player than I but that is neither here or there. I agree with enzie that the devotion count make be too low.
After testing three decks for Phoenix (Mono-B, Esper, and a sweet Boros Reckoner combo deck), I finally came back to Mono-B. So is no splash correct? If not, what's the best splash? I currently feel like I want to splash either blue or red, but there are arguments for the other colors.
I have been playing with the red splash verion for about 3 days. Rakdos return is REALLY good. I have since been debating about trying to fit a dreadbore in the main. E-Fro's deck played zero pack rats and a bunch of one of's. I currently took a land, a lifebne zombie, the whip, and the dreadbore out of the main for 4x pack rat. E-Fro was playing zero pack rats. Its running really well and we have access to slaughter games and sire of insanity in the board. I like it. What would you main deck for blue? Oh yeah and no specter main either.
Edit: I have been fishing this deck and the way it's been running I think the 4x pack rats hurt more than they help. Any suggestions on what to play instead? I agree with enzie that the devotion count seems too low. I am also playing 25 lands which seems to be working fine. What about only running 2 pack rats? I just don't know with everyone gunning for pack rat if it's worth running it anymore. At least in this version.
I have been playing with the red splash verion for about 3 days. Rakdos return is REALLY good. I have since been debating about trying to fit a deradbore in the maim. E-Fro's deck played zero pack rats and a bunch of one of's. I currently took a land, a lifebne zombie, the whip, and the dreadbore out of the main for 4x pack rat. E-Fro was playing zero pack rats. Its running really well and we have acess to slaughter games and sire of insnaity in the board. I like it. What would you main deck for blue? Oh yeah and no specter main either.
For blue, I'd play Master of Waves, Far // Away, Ashiok, and counterspells. I like the red splash, though. I think I'll go with that. But I'd run NVS over LBZ. GR is VERY badly positioned right now.
I have been playing the red splash since before born of the gods. And all I can add to this discussion is that pat rat is getting worse and worse every time I play. Magma Jet is criminally under played card and fits very nicely into the B/r devotion deck. It helps dig for answers when needed and keeps you alive long enough vs agro. Rakdous Return has never really been that great and it went from main deck to side board to completely out. I view standard as having four types of decks, rev decks, thoughtsieze decks, caryatids decks, and agro. Vs agro the cards stinks, vs thoughtsieze decks is is mostly a fireball due to the hand disruption involved in these matches, vs caryatid decks is when it is at its best, because usually you can strip their full hand and can easily deal with what ever has already made it to the board, vs control its boom or bust. If you can stick a return after they have tapped out and strip their entire hand you are very far ahead and likely to win. In practice this is often more difficult to do, Return is only a 2 of, making it inconsistent, and playing more is not the answer because it plays out poorly vs agro and other thoughtsieze decks.
Now I am prefectly willing to eat crow on this but RR is not well positioned. I have heard a lot of professional magic players say that it is under played but have have yet to see many of them play it.
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Yeah, I guess the only way to really make the matchup better is splashing. I'd personally recommend blue, but a lot more people like white. I'm an advocate of a blue splash because it has reasonable advantages with minimal drawbacks, where as white's advantages are trivial. I'm still undecided as to whether I'm going to run straight Mono-B or splash blue in Phoenix, but I'm leaning toward the splash.
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
EDIT: There were two Orzhov decks in the top 8 in Cincy, but still...
Well Esper Control happened there probably.
Esper Control happened. At least now everyone's gunning for them instead of us.
Well I will stick with the Sphinx's Revelation side for the time being
It's so customizable that im not that afraid of hate.
I also dont like right now how often all your removal is blanked because you play against Burn decks or Control decks or Hexproof decks. That is a bit of a structural problem of the black decks.
I just dont like auto-losing because a guy managed to put a a bunch of auras on his guy and I have a Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall in hand.
Not saying that Black devotion is bad or anything. It still put up results after all. I just hate losing games like that to such stupid strategies.
Then we can just run removal that doesn't get blanked so easily. With a wide-open meta dominated by control, it's not such a bad idea.
And what do you have in mind?
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Lifebane Zombie
4 Desecration Demon
Spells
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Devour Flesh
4 Underworld Connections
1 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Thoughtseize
12 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
4 Mutavault
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Drown in Sorrow
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Pharika's Cure
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Slaughter Games
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Doom Blade
3 Duress
The only changes I might make is cutting some number of lifebanes for a couple nightveils or pack rats and trying to cut a spell for another creature.
It just feels like the devotion in this deck is often a bit lower then normal, and maybe that doesn't matter but my first instinct is that it's just a 'little' too low currently. If I could find an easy way to get up to 14/15 creatures, without cutting underworld connections or whip, that'd be my only change.
Anyways, obviously the Rakdos' Return are amazing and I've been looking for a good deck to play them in. For weeks various pros have said that card is seriously under played and under appreciated. I've felt the same since Born came out, and even tried a jund shell at FNM one week just for the Caryatid into Xenagos into Return for 5 on turn 4 magical christmasland scenario.
Sire of Insanity, Slaughter Games and Duress out of the side will wreck control. The mono-black core has a good chance against almost anything else. On paper the R/W burn matchup might seem weak due to shock lands/connection/thoughtseize, but unless they draw very well and you don't see devour flesh + D-demon or Whip of Erebos, I'm not super concerned. It likely plays out similar to my B/W deck's matchup against them, where you stabilize at 4/5 life on turn 6 and then if you draw something to gain life before they draw two more burn spells, you win.
So, basically with the current meta of Esper, B/W mid range, mono-black and R/W burn. The Black devotion splash red seems very well positioned.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Neither of these cards work against bb.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Edit: I have been fishing this deck and the way it's been running I think the 4x pack rats hurt more than they help. Any suggestions on what to play instead? I agree with enzie that the devotion count seems too low. I am also playing 25 lands which seems to be working fine. What about only running 2 pack rats? I just don't know with everyone gunning for pack rat if it's worth running it anymore. At least in this version.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
For blue, I'd play Master of Waves, Far // Away, Ashiok, and counterspells. I like the red splash, though. I think I'll go with that. But I'd run NVS over LBZ. GR is VERY badly positioned right now.
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
Now I am prefectly willing to eat crow on this but RR is not well positioned. I have heard a lot of professional magic players say that it is under played but have have yet to see many of them play it.