Maybe Im wrong...but I feel like Nightveil Specter is inferior to Lifebane Zombie. Every since i cut specter, I feel as though the deck actualy performs better against the field as a whole. Sure Lifebane zombie cant steal a card away from mono blue devotion, but it does give us informtion, provide a 3/1 that cant be blocked...and lets face it, blue devotion is fairly light on removal, so ive had this guy beat face with delver style evasion :). Not that blue devotion is the only thing we see anymore, but its just an example. Ill agree that zombie does nothing against esper, but esper represents just a very small portion of the meta...and thats why we have a sideboard :). Nightveil specter to me always just seems like a bad card that provided 3 devotion, which was fine; but in my humble opinion, the gains from running zombie outweigh the losses from not running specter.
Someone mentioned valuable sideboard space...i agree with you to an extent. I say it that way because I am going to start splashing red for valuable tools against any orzhov deck. Once again, not that this is the only deck, but i do feel as though it does well in the mono black mirrorish matchups. Splashing red for mortars and slaughter games ONLY. We wont be running and MD red cards. Im hoping this can be sopported by running 4x temple of malice and 4x blood crypt. But push comes to shove...may i can add a poop guildgaet :-(. But anyway, i feel like our post board games against esper are pretty darn strong anyway with the addition of cards like duress. The decks that seems to give me the most trouble are the GR Domri shell decks...jund or gr which ever. Any MD advantage against these decks seems ok. Given more spots in the sb allows us to retool our removal packages to adapt to the changing meta.
One final note...at first I kind of felt like people were trying to be too cute by adding spalsh colors just because they could, but lately I can see doing so to narrow your strategies against certain decks. I feel like the core of this deck is so damn good anyway, that I am a little cautious about moving away from the mono black. I think splash options in the sb are fine, but the brutal consistantcy of MBD is why it remains the king of standard; to mess with such things could actually make this deck worse imo.
Pretty stock MBD nothing really new to see here. Just added slaughter games and mortars to the board and slightly changed the mana.
Before you stick your nose up against Pharika's cure, keep in mind that RDW is everywhere too in my game. Pharika's cure can give us a needed tempo boost.
It actually does work and it's pretty effective against U/W control. Read my post a few pages back, had 70% win rate with it. I ran 2 Mortars MD instead of devour flesh. 2 Mortars more and 3 Slaughter Games on the side.
I agree. Saying that a three-color deck is more consistent than a one-color deck is just wrong. But I've found that there's surprisingly little consistency lost in the manabase in a deck splashing two colors, especially compared to a deck that splashes three. For example, this is my current list:
I'm still in the process of tweaking it, but I think the bad manabase is worth it. I get upgrades over Deso and Gary in Master of Waves and BBoV, as well as Detention Sphere, which is the most versatile removal spell in Standard, and Sphinx's Revelation, which gives me a better late game. The sideboard brings Notion Thief, which while narrow is very effective against control, and Ashiok.
I agree. Saying that a three-color deck is more consistent than a one-color deck is just wrong. But I've found that there's surprisingly little consistency lost in the manabase in a deck splashing two colors, especially compared to a deck that splashes three. For example, this is my current list:
I'm still in the process of tweaking it, but I think the bad manabase is worth it. I get upgrades over Deso and Gary in Master of Waves and BBoV, as well as Detention Sphere, which is the most versatile removal spell in Standard, and Sphinx's Revelation, which gives me a better late game. The sideboard brings Notion Thief, which while narrow is very effective against control, and Ashiok.
Interesting. One problem I could see with that deck: consistency. It looks like it wants to do two separate things.
I am leaning towards taking out specter in favor of zombie main now. The free information is just so relevant.
I agree. Saying that a three-color deck is more consistent than a one-color deck is just wrong. But I've found that there's surprisingly little consistency lost in the manabase in a deck splashing two colors, especially compared to a deck that splashes three. For example, this is my current list:
I'm still in the process of tweaking it, but I think the bad manabase is worth it. I get upgrades over Deso and Gary in Master of Waves and BBoV, as well as Detention Sphere, which is the most versatile removal spell in Standard, and Sphinx's Revelation, which gives me a better late game. The sideboard brings Notion Thief, which while narrow is very effective against control, and Ashiok.
For starters, this is not MBD anymore. What is your devotion to? It looks like Buw Junk if you ask me. Master of Waves? The only way you get tokens is if you cast another MoW. No where near as consistent as a mono deck. If I was going to splash, I wouldn't MD anything in the splashed color. Just my opinion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I agree. Saying that a three-color deck is more consistent than a one-color deck is just wrong. But I've found that there's surprisingly little consistency lost in the manabase in a deck splashing two colors, especially compared to a deck that splashes three. For example, this is my current list:
I'm still in the process of tweaking it, but I think the bad manabase is worth it. I get upgrades over Deso and Gary in Master of Waves and BBoV, as well as Detention Sphere, which is the most versatile removal spell in Standard, and Sphinx's Revelation, which gives me a better late game. The sideboard brings Notion Thief, which while narrow is very effective against control, and Ashiok.
For starters, this is not MBD anymore. What is your devotion to? It looks like Buw Junk if you ask me. Master of Waves? The only way you get tokens is if you cast another MoW. No where near as consistent as a mono deck. If I was going to splash, I wouldn't MD anything in the splashed color. Just my opinion.
you also get tokens with specter and/or sphere out. But I still don't think thats consistent enough.
Yeah, consistency is a problem, and I usually find myself not even playing BBoV or Rev when I draw them because the aggro plan is just better. I'm going to try only a blue splash and see how that works. The loss of D-Sphere is pretty big, but it's not particularly easy to cast anyway.
Yeah, consistency is a problem, and I usually find myself not even playing BBoV or Rev when I draw them because the aggro plan is just better. I'm going to try only a blue splash and see how that works. The loss of D-Sphere is pretty big, but it's not particularly easy to cast anyway.
I've personally decided to bite the bullet and choose zombie over specter. Zombie is just a faster clock.
I don't know what to say anymore about this ax. I'm still undecided. It is a faster clock but it's really bad vs aggro and more specifically against any burn deck.
If I saw blood baron often in my game I would consider running mortars main as well, but I just dont. I feel like this could change soon tho. Turns out a pro black creature is pretty good vs mono black :-). And since MBD is what it is in standard right now, it seems viable to run BBoV.
To the comment on pharika's cure...I agree that the card is so narrow its bad. But it turns out that the things it is good against represents like 1/3 of the decks played in this area. Sucks, but it is what it is. Going to a broader game, they come out easy.
Has anyone noticed a need for Whip of Erebos now that lifebane zombie is being Maindecked? It still seems painfully slow to m. It wants to be run with zombie tho...maybe a 1-of in the sb? I know people are doing this anyway, but my question is...has is done well for you?
So I'm just going to take a second to advocate for Master of Waves over Deso. Master does have some drawbacks (requires a splash, requires you to run Specter, might only produce one token) but he's awesome against GR and Rx, and if you have a Specter out, he ends games all by himself. The list I'm currently on shares 45-50 maindeck cards with stock Mono-B lists. The only differences are the manabase and Master over Deso (and NVS over LBZ, though a lot of lists do that).
On another note, what removal suites are you guys running? I'm currently on the standard 4/2/2/2 split, and I like it a lot, but I want to accommodate for the meta changes.
Im not really sure what your attempting to do here...this is what I mean when i say people are getting too cute with splash colors. Your attempting to do too many things. 3 colored devotion? seems like your posting this in the wrong thread :/. Your diluting blacks already class of the format strategy by adding completely separate win cons at the cost of a shaky at best mans base. Seems lousy, but please let us know your findings if you continue to test all three colors
If you drop one color, why would you keep blue? What does master of waves do for your deck that MBD even needs? Master sucks against control. It sucks against black removal. I dont even like Mono Blue devotion right now, and it seems so much better than Bu.
To all you lovers of Nightveil specter, I really cant blame you. Nightveil provides a bump in devotion count on an evasive creature. But I certainly do not agree with the notion that zombie is worse vs everything no GR. I just like how zombie impacts the game more. It hoses g or w decks, and as mentioned above, its a much better clock.
I don't know what to say anymore about this ax. I'm still undecided. It is a faster clock but it's really bad vs aggro and more specifically against any burn deck.
The only aggro I find it to be far worse vs is RDW/WR burn (and that's mostly because they run phoenix and the 2/2 first striker). Against mono black aggro, nightveil specter is marginally better but by removing it I can add three dark betrayals in the side (which is also awesome vs MBA). Against esper humans it depends on their build. But again... I can add dark betrayals. Against GW hexproof aggro zombie is marginally better than specter.
So the question is... do you need specter to beat RDW/Boros Burn?
Im not really sure what your attempting to do here...this is what I mean when i say people are getting too cute with splash colors. Your attempting to do too many things. 3 colored devotion? seems like your posting this in the wrong thread :/. Your diluting blacks already class of the format strategy by adding completely separate win cons at the cost of a shaky at best mans base. Seems lousy, but please let us know your findings if you continue to test all three colors
If you drop one color, why would you keep blue? What does master of waves do for your deck that MBD even needs? Master sucks against control. It sucks against black removal. I dont even like Mono Blue devotion right now, and it seems so much better than Bu.
To all you lovers of Nightveil specter, I really cant blame you. Nightveil provides a bump in devotion count on an evasive creature. But I certainly do not agree with the notion that zombie is worse vs everything no GR. I just like how zombie impacts the game more. It hoses g or w decks, and as mentioned above, its a much better clock.
The three color list was just to illustrate that splashes can work. While the list definitely had some issues, a splash isn't necessarily bad.
Master is basically an upgrade over Deso. It's actually quite well positioned right now. They mostly die to the same removal spells, but Master is a lot better against aggressive decks. It also interacts well with Whip of Erebos, which is really good right now. In versions with LBZ, it's obviously not worth it, but with NVS, I think it and the other things you get from a splash are enough to dilute the manabase a little.
To all you lovers of Nightveil specter, I really cant blame you. Nightveil provides a bump in devotion count on an evasive creature. But I certainly do not agree with the notion that zombie is worse vs everything no GR. I just like how zombie impacts the game more. It hoses g or w decks, and as mentioned above, its a much better clock.
I don't think we are saying that "Zombie is worse vs everything not GR". I certainly am willing to concede G1 just to bring in my suite of Zombies.
As for your assessment on the splashes, I'm 100% in your corner on that one. And, like you stated I want to see results before totally abandoning MBD.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
To all you lovers of Nightveil specter, I really cant blame you. Nightveil provides a bump in devotion count on an evasive creature. But I certainly do not agree with the notion that zombie is worse vs everything no GR. I just like how zombie impacts the game more. It hoses g or w decks, and as mentioned above, its a much better clock.
I don't think we are saying that "Zombie is worse vs everything not GR". I certainly am willing to concede G1 just to bring in my suite of Zombies.
As for your assessment on the splashes, I'm 100% in your corner on that one. And, like you stated I want to see results before totally abandoning MBD.
Geez idk man. Desecration demon is light years better than master. RDwhatever cant effieiently trade with demon, so its not like MoW MUST be in this deck for red cards. We do just fine IMO. Where is whip of erebos good right now? I struggle with the idea on a 1-of in my sb...but because of lifebane zombie. But your not even running zombie. We are supposed to believe that attempting to run whip/master of waves is better than just running desecration demon? Hard sell there man.
I pretty sure id be more comfortable splashing white (blood baron , sb removal) , red (slaughter games, mortars), or green (abrupt decay, sb removal) than blue. If you look at the things mono black devotion actually has a problem with in current standard, these colors attempt to solve these problems. Blue seems to make some matchups win-more situations while screwing with the intergrity of the deck to begin with. Just a thought. I guess i just need to get aon cockatrice one night and see if any splash colors are worth messing with the best deck in the format right now :). I just dont see it...
Edit: I just notice sphinx's revelation in this deck...im speachless. I couldnt think of a card less worth of a card slot in mono black devotion strategy.
New to the discussion, but been running MBD a LOT lately, so better late than never here, right?
I think the only color to really consider splashing right now is red, primarily for Mortars and Slaughter Games. Mortars is THE best answer to BBoV, arguably the biggest single threat to the deck in Standard right now, and happens to hit a lot of other things too (and probably allows dropping DF, though that's certainly up for debate). And okay, white is pretty good too if you happen to own enough BBoV to make it worth it.
That being said, I don't think MBD needs any other color, as Krovax and PJ said. The core is very robust, and mucking around with other colors just weakens the consistency and, in my opinion, weakens the deck. Rat/Demon/Gary are just musts, I think, and trying to go off on a different strategy is asking for frustration (and probably belongs in a different thread, since I think it ceases to be Black Devotion ).
Two main points I wanted to make: I currently run 3 Lifebanes and 3 Specters, and have been very happy with the results. Specter still does work against G/R (thanks to evasion) and R/W, especially if I can hit one of their lands. And the benefit to devotion is NOT to be understated. Lifebane obviously rocks against G/R and anything white, but unless facing heavy black, it's a fantastic clock and great 'Walker control. I couldn't decide, so I settled on both.
Other point: Whip is SO good. I run two mainboard, and it's just backbreaking against almost everything. If it resolves vs. control, suddenly board wipe (unless it's a mass of Rats) doesn't bother me. If I get it out vs. burn, the opponent may as well concede right there. Any against anything creature-based, it makes Gary the world's best blocker (Whip it back next turn...bwaha!) and gives me multiple uses out of Lifebane. I think it just HAS to be in there. I've never been unhappy to see it, regardless of matchup. Won me so many games.
Yeah, I run Herald as well. He adds more of an aggro factor if I pull him early, or just finishes things nicely if I enchant him on someone late. (A Gary with a Herald on his back is funny and terrifying... 5/7 flyer? Yes, please!) To fit everything, I run fewer lands than normal and one less Connections, but you know what? I don't really miss them. Perhaps running so much in the 3-slot makes up for that, but I typically have no mana problems.
And yes, no Mutas. I wish I was fortunate enough to be able to afford them.
But anyway, I guess I wanted to mainly open up discussion more on Whip, and Herald as well, I suppose. But mainly Whip. I can't imagine the deck without it now.
Geez idk man. Desecration demon is light years better than master. RDwhatever cant effieiently trade with demon, so its not like MoW MUST be in this deck for red cards. We do just fine IMO. Where is whip of erebos good right now? I struggle with the idea on a 1-of in my sb...but because of lifebane zombie. But your not even running zombie. We are supposed to believe that attempting to run whip/master of waves is better than just running desecration demon? Hard sell there man.
I pretty sure id be more comfortable splashing white (blood baron , sb removal) , red (slaughter games, mortars), or green (abrupt decay, sb removal) than blue. If you look at the things mono black devotion actually has a problem with in current standard, these colors attempt to solve these problems. Blue seems to make some matchups win-more situations while screwing with the intergrity of the deck to begin with. Just a thought. I guess i just need to get aon cockatrice one night and see if any splash colors are worth messing with the best deck in the format right now :). I just dont see it...
Edit: I just notice sphinx's revelation in this deck...im speachless. I couldnt think of a card less worth of a card slot in mono black devotion strategy.
Yeah, Rev kind of sucks. In retrospect, I just jammed it in there because it seemed good. Anyway, I'm back to a more normal list now.
Whip is really good against Burn, and so is worth at least a sideboard slot. Master is better at pushing through damage than Deso, and Burn just can't kill him, while they can at least 2-for-1 themselves to kill Deso. Monsters is pretty good at locking him down, too. However, Master alone isn't worth the splash. There's also Ashiok to deal with Uw Devotion and Monsters, and Notion Thief to stop control from Rev/A-Charm shenanigans. After testing, however, I'm on the fence about a splash. Master is as good as I thought it would be, so are the sideboard cards. I'm just not sure if it's worth it.
I am in complete agreement with Krovax on this. Trying to push an esper deck in MBD forum seems like a waste of time. If it's working for you great but the majority of us here are brainstorming ways to make the MBD deck better. I am going to exculsively test the zombie tonight to help make my decision. I did take out a connections and a LAND last night to MD 2x lifebanes and I did like it when I saw it. Maybe everyone else is right and zombie is the way to go.
I am in complete agreement with Krovax on this. Trying to push an esper deck in MBD forum seems like a waste of time. If it's working for you great but the majority of us here are brainstorming ways to make the MBD deck better. I am going to exculsively test the zombie tonight to help make my decision. I did take out a connections and a nightveil last night to MD 2x lifebanes and I did like it when I saw it. Maybe everyone else is right and zombie is the way to go.
Please post your test results. If you want to test PM me. I'm on disability and have plenty of time
Also check your PM's, I sent you an offer the other day.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I am in complete agreement with Krovax on this. Trying to push an esper deck in MBD forum seems like a waste of time. If it's working for you great but the majority of us here are brainstorming ways to make the MBD deck better. I am going to exculsively test the zombie tonight to help make my decision. I did take out a connections and a LAND last night to MD 2x lifebanes and I did like it when I saw it. Maybe everyone else is right and zombie is the way to go.
I'm going to test specter again tonight. I just can't decide. It could easily go both ways. Let me know what you uncover. likewise if you want to test pm me. I play on MODO.
Drop the Watery Grave first, then on turn two you can Thoughtseize then Temple so you have all the informations when you scry.
It actually does work and it's pretty effective against U/W control. Read my post a few pages back, had 70% win rate with it. I ran 2 Mortars MD instead of devour flesh. 2 Mortars more and 3 Slaughter Games on the side.
I agree. Saying that a three-color deck is more consistent than a one-color deck is just wrong. But I've found that there's surprisingly little consistency lost in the manabase in a deck splashing two colors, especially compared to a deck that splashes three. For example, this is my current list:
4 Godless Shrine
3 Hallowed Fountain
4 Mutavault
7 Swamp
3 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Silence
4 Watery Grave
Creatures:
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Master of Waves
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Detention Sphere
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Dark Betrayal
1 Devour Flesh
1 Drown in Sorrow
4 Duress
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Notion Thief
2 Whip of Erebos
I'm still in the process of tweaking it, but I think the bad manabase is worth it. I get upgrades over Deso and Gary in Master of Waves and BBoV, as well as Detention Sphere, which is the most versatile removal spell in Standard, and Sphinx's Revelation, which gives me a better late game. The sideboard brings Notion Thief, which while narrow is very effective against control, and Ashiok.
Interesting. One problem I could see with that deck: consistency. It looks like it wants to do two separate things.
I am leaning towards taking out specter in favor of zombie main now. The free information is just so relevant.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
For starters, this is not MBD anymore. What is your devotion to? It looks like Buw Junk if you ask me. Master of Waves? The only way you get tokens is if you cast another MoW. No where near as consistent as a mono deck. If I was going to splash, I wouldn't MD anything in the splashed color. Just my opinion.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
you also get tokens with specter and/or sphere out. But I still don't think thats consistent enough.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I've personally decided to bite the bullet and choose zombie over specter. Zombie is just a faster clock.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
To the comment on pharika's cure...I agree that the card is so narrow its bad. But it turns out that the things it is good against represents like 1/3 of the decks played in this area. Sucks, but it is what it is. Going to a broader game, they come out easy.
Has anyone noticed a need for Whip of Erebos now that lifebane zombie is being Maindecked? It still seems painfully slow to m. It wants to be run with zombie tho...maybe a 1-of in the sb? I know people are doing this anyway, but my question is...has is done well for you?
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
On another note, what removal suites are you guys running? I'm currently on the standard 4/2/2/2 split, and I like it a lot, but I want to accommodate for the meta changes.
If you drop one color, why would you keep blue? What does master of waves do for your deck that MBD even needs? Master sucks against control. It sucks against black removal. I dont even like Mono Blue devotion right now, and it seems so much better than Bu.
To all you lovers of Nightveil specter, I really cant blame you. Nightveil provides a bump in devotion count on an evasive creature. But I certainly do not agree with the notion that zombie is worse vs everything no GR. I just like how zombie impacts the game more. It hoses g or w decks, and as mentioned above, its a much better clock.
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
The only aggro I find it to be far worse vs is RDW/WR burn (and that's mostly because they run phoenix and the 2/2 first striker). Against mono black aggro, nightveil specter is marginally better but by removing it I can add three dark betrayals in the side (which is also awesome vs MBA). Against esper humans it depends on their build. But again... I can add dark betrayals. Against GW hexproof aggro zombie is marginally better than specter.
So the question is... do you need specter to beat RDW/Boros Burn?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The three color list was just to illustrate that splashes can work. While the list definitely had some issues, a splash isn't necessarily bad.
Master is basically an upgrade over Deso. It's actually quite well positioned right now. They mostly die to the same removal spells, but Master is a lot better against aggressive decks. It also interacts well with Whip of Erebos, which is really good right now. In versions with LBZ, it's obviously not worth it, but with NVS, I think it and the other things you get from a splash are enough to dilute the manabase a little.
I don't think we are saying that "Zombie is worse vs everything not GR". I certainly am willing to concede G1 just to bring in my suite of Zombies.
As for your assessment on the splashes, I'm 100% in your corner on that one. And, like you stated I want to see results before totally abandoning MBD.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Yea... I can't decide which to run.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I pretty sure id be more comfortable splashing white (blood baron , sb removal) , red (slaughter games, mortars), or green (abrupt decay, sb removal) than blue. If you look at the things mono black devotion actually has a problem with in current standard, these colors attempt to solve these problems. Blue seems to make some matchups win-more situations while screwing with the intergrity of the deck to begin with. Just a thought. I guess i just need to get aon cockatrice one night and see if any splash colors are worth messing with the best deck in the format right now :). I just dont see it...
Edit: I just notice sphinx's revelation in this deck...im speachless. I couldnt think of a card less worth of a card slot in mono black devotion strategy.
BUGShardless SultaiBUG
Modern
URSplinter TwinUR
BWGAbzan MidrangeBWG
Standard
URWJeskai TokensURW
I think the only color to really consider splashing right now is red, primarily for Mortars and Slaughter Games. Mortars is THE best answer to BBoV, arguably the biggest single threat to the deck in Standard right now, and happens to hit a lot of other things too (and probably allows dropping DF, though that's certainly up for debate). And okay, white is pretty good too if you happen to own enough BBoV to make it worth it.
That being said, I don't think MBD needs any other color, as Krovax and PJ said. The core is very robust, and mucking around with other colors just weakens the consistency and, in my opinion, weakens the deck. Rat/Demon/Gary are just musts, I think, and trying to go off on a different strategy is asking for frustration (and probably belongs in a different thread, since I think it ceases to be Black Devotion ).
Two main points I wanted to make: I currently run 3 Lifebanes and 3 Specters, and have been very happy with the results. Specter still does work against G/R (thanks to evasion) and R/W, especially if I can hit one of their lands. And the benefit to devotion is NOT to be understated. Lifebane obviously rocks against G/R and anything white, but unless facing heavy black, it's a fantastic clock and great 'Walker control. I couldn't decide, so I settled on both.
Other point: Whip is SO good. I run two mainboard, and it's just backbreaking against almost everything. If it resolves vs. control, suddenly board wipe (unless it's a mass of Rats) doesn't bother me. If I get it out vs. burn, the opponent may as well concede right there. Any against anything creature-based, it makes Gary the world's best blocker (Whip it back next turn...bwaha!) and gives me multiple uses out of Lifebane. I think it just HAS to be in there. I've never been unhappy to see it, regardless of matchup. Won me so many games.
My current build:
4x Pack Rat
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Desecration Demon
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Nightveil Specter
2x Herald of Torment
Other Spells: 19
3x Underworld Connections
2x Whip of Erebos
4x Thoughtseize
2x Bile Blight
4x Hero's Downfall
1x Ultimate Price
3x Devour Flesh
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
22x Swamp
Sidebord: 15
2x Duress
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
1x Ultimate Price
1x Devour Flesh
2x Bile Blight
2x Drown in Sorrow
2x Pithing Needle
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
Yeah, I run Herald as well. He adds more of an aggro factor if I pull him early, or just finishes things nicely if I enchant him on someone late. (A Gary with a Herald on his back is funny and terrifying... 5/7 flyer? Yes, please!) To fit everything, I run fewer lands than normal and one less Connections, but you know what? I don't really miss them. Perhaps running so much in the 3-slot makes up for that, but I typically have no mana problems.
And yes, no Mutas. I wish I was fortunate enough to be able to afford them.
But anyway, I guess I wanted to mainly open up discussion more on Whip, and Herald as well, I suppose. But mainly Whip. I can't imagine the deck without it now.
Yeah, Rev kind of sucks. In retrospect, I just jammed it in there because it seemed good. Anyway, I'm back to a more normal list now.
Whip is really good against Burn, and so is worth at least a sideboard slot. Master is better at pushing through damage than Deso, and Burn just can't kill him, while they can at least 2-for-1 themselves to kill Deso. Monsters is pretty good at locking him down, too. However, Master alone isn't worth the splash. There's also Ashiok to deal with Uw Devotion and Monsters, and Notion Thief to stop control from Rev/A-Charm shenanigans. After testing, however, I'm on the fence about a splash. Master is as good as I thought it would be, so are the sideboard cards. I'm just not sure if it's worth it.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
Please post your test results. If you want to test PM me. I'm on disability and have plenty of time
Also check your PM's, I sent you an offer the other day.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
I'm going to test specter again tonight. I just can't decide. It could easily go both ways. Let me know what you uncover. likewise if you want to test pm me. I play on MODO.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
What do you guys think of mainboarding Specter *and* Lifebane? A lot of people seem to be doing it lately.
Personally... I think that muddies the waters too much. They both server two separate roles. I'd hate to draw one when I really need the other.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA