I'm pretty new here and I was wondering if a a red splash has been discussed recently? I realize there's a red splash thread but it hasn't been updated since BNG was released.
I'm currently running 8 red sources (4 shocklands, 4 scrylands) and no red spells MD. I only run the splash for 3x Mizzium Mortars, 2 Slaughter Games and 1x Rakdos Charm.
Rakdos Charm is a card i'm trying out as I wanted to at least have an answer to a resolved Bident against Mono-Blue. And the Charm's won me a couple of games against Brimaz/Elspeth in the late game. (Card's that keep popping up in my LGS.) Please note that this will definitely be one of my first cuts if I find better cards against my meta.
Mortars was a straight up answer to BBV as the card seems to be gaining popularity recently. I'm trying this because I'm not that big of a fan of Devour at the moment. And despite only having 8 red sources, I've been able to overload this a few times so far.
Slaughter Games is a card I've been testing specifically for the UWx match up as sniping their win cons or in some cases, D-Sphere just puts me too far ahead.
I'm pretty new here and I was wondering if a a red splash has been discussed recently? I realize there's a red splash thread but it hasn't been updated since BNG was released.
I'm currently running 8 red sources (4 shocklands, 4 scrylands) and no red spells MD. I only run the splash for 3x Mizzium Mortars, 2 Slaughter Games and 1x Rakdos Charm.
Rakdos Charm is a card i'm trying out as I wanted to at least have an answer to a resolved Bident against Mono-Blue. And the Charm's won me a couple of games against Brimaz/Elspeth in the late game. (Card's that keep popping up in my LGS.) Please note that this will definitely be one of my first cuts if I find better cards against my meta.
Mortars was a straight up answer to BBV as the card seems to be gaining popularity recently. I'm trying this because I'm not that big of a fan of Devour at the moment. And despite only having 8 red sources, I've been able to overload this a few times so far.
Slaughter Games is a card I've been testing specifically for the UWx match up as sniping their win cons or in some cases, D-Sphere just puts me too far ahead.
Any thoughts?
i splash red for x3 mizzium mortars to answer bbov reliably , x2 dreadbore in the main. x2 rakdos's return in the side. reason why i run 2 dreadbore is to cut one downfall to give slack in the 3cmc slot.
There's a red splash thread, as well, if you'd like to see some other lists. Aside from the mentioned Mizzium Mortars, Dreadbore, and Rakdos's Return, I also play Slaughter Games in the side.
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Currently Playing: Standard: WBG Abzan Midrange Modern: UWR Kiki-Jiki Control EDH: WBR Kaalia of the Vast
So this came up tonight, here's the situation the round is tied 1-1 and I'm on the play. My opponents deck is a brew, in game 1 it was a slow RG land destruction deck ramping into Ember Haulers, Encroaching Wastes, and so on, backed by Garruk and Xenagos. In game 2 he sideboarded 13 cards, and while he claimed to still have the LD elements he ended up chaining Burning Trees into Xenagos tokens and swarming me (I got the read on him bringing in Plummets atleast). Time was running low in game 3 so I kept rather than mulligan because I wanted to finish the round (and no, I'm not scared of mulligans, I went to 5 in game 1), this was on the play:
Temple of Deceit, Bile Blight, Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Duress, Lifebane Zombie, Lifebane Zombie
I chose to keep, and got severely punished as the Temple missed, Thoughtseize showed no Duress targets, and I lost my Temple (only land at the time) on turn 4 to an Encroaching Wastes facing down Xenagos, his satyr minions, and double BTE.
So this came up tonight, here's the situation the round is tied 1-1 and I'm on the play. My opponents deck is a brew, in game 1 it was a slow RG land destruction deck ramping into Ember Haulers, Encroaching Wastes, and so on, backed by Garruk and Xenagos. In game 2 he sideboarded 13 cards, and while he claimed to still have the LD elements he ended up chaining Burning Trees into Xenagos tokens and swarming me (I got the read on him bringing in Plummets atleast). Time was running low in game 3 so I kept rather than mulligan because I wanted to finish the round (and no, I'm not scared of mulligans, I went to 5 in game 1), this was on the play:
Temple of Deceit, Bile Blight, Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Duress, Lifebane Zombie, Lifebane Zombie
I chose to keep, and got severely punished as the Temple missed, Thoughtseize showed no Duress targets, and I lost my Temple (only land at the time) on turn 4 to an Encroaching Wastes facing down Xenagos, his satyr minions, and double BTE.
Thoughts on taking a mulligan here?
i fail to see the question at hand. its a one lander in your opening hand. there's nothing else to evaluate
So this came up tonight, here's the situation the round is tied 1-1 and I'm on the play. My opponents deck is a brew, in game 1 it was a slow RG land destruction deck ramping into Ember Haulers, Encroaching Wastes, and so on, backed by Garruk and Xenagos. In game 2 he sideboarded 13 cards, and while he claimed to still have the LD elements he ended up chaining Burning Trees into Xenagos tokens and swarming me (I got the read on him bringing in Plummets atleast). Time was running low in game 3 so I kept rather than mulligan because I wanted to finish the round (and no, I'm not scared of mulligans, I went to 5 in game 1), this was on the play:
Temple of Deceit, Bile Blight, Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Duress, Lifebane Zombie, Lifebane Zombie
I chose to keep, and got severely punished as the Temple missed, Thoughtseize showed no Duress targets, and I lost my Temple (only land at the time) on turn 4 to an Encroaching Wastes facing down Xenagos, his satyr minions, and double BTE.
Thoughts on taking a mulligan here?
You had 1 land. You mulligan. End of story. Especially if you know that your opponent is playing a lot of land destruction. You needed to draw two lands for your hand to do something and it's often too late if you miss a land drop THAT early into the game.
By keeping that hand you basically said "well, I don't want to end in overtime and so I'll give you the chance for a free win". At least that's what I think. I don't think you really had a chance with that hand but I can understand that you wanted to finish the round quickly. I would've mulligan'd regardless.
I was 74.5% to hit a second black land within 2 draws and 60.5% to hit two lands within 3 draws. The hand is virtually guaranteed to win if it hits it's land so you could say I'm 60.5% to win here.
Assuming a base 50/50 and using mulligan win/loss rates (no one has ever made a table for constructed, so I'm going off of draft rates here) I would only be 36.6% to win on a random 6.
Hey all. First time posting here, been playing Mono-Black since TCGPlayer Fall States about a week after Theros came out. I'm going to be taking the deck to a PTQ soon, and I'd just like to fine tune it, get opinions, and advice on a specific match-up I have a lot of trouble with. Here's my list.
So, the problem match-up for me consistently seems to be Green("red") Devotion. I just can't seem to keep up with a deck that vomits its hand out, draws 6 cards (Courser+Garruk+Domri) and then vomits those cards out just as quick. Tips?
Any and all advice and comments would be appreciated- thanks all!
I was 74.5% to hit a second black land within 2 draws and 60.5% to hit two lands within 3 draws. The hand is virtually guaranteed to win if it hits it's land so you could say I'm 60.5% to win here.
LOL I was going to say your math is off because those numbers sounded too good. It is off, but unless you're running 25 land, the true percentages are actually BETTER than what you said: 79% and 65%, respectively. On the other hand, your odds of getting that number of lands is better with a fresh six.
You're right, though, with two one-mana plays and a scry land, if the rest of the cards are perfect, it's not a bad keep. I think your mistake was misjudging the quality of other cards in your hand. Lacking Downfall or Doom Blade, there's a pretty good chance they put threats on the table faster than you control them, despite your good hand disruption. And yes, Lifebane can punch through to Xenagos, but Domri protects himself with the pit fight option.
Statistics, to me, don't mean anything; it's the cards you see in your hand that matter. And I mull to 6 on one land.
This game is all about numbers. Understanding them makes you a better deckbuilder and player. I think we've just shown that "the cards you see in your hand" can support a one-land keep.
Hey all. First time posting here, been playing Mono-Black since TCGPlayer Fall States about a week after Theros came out. I'm going to be taking the deck to a PTQ soon, and I'd just like to fine tune it, get opinions, and advice on a specific match-up I have a lot of trouble with. Here's my list.
So, the problem match-up for me consistently seems to be Green("red") Devotion. I just can't seem to keep up with a deck that vomits its hand out, draws 6 cards (Courser+Garruk+Domri) and then vomits those cards out just as quick. Tips?
Any and all advice and comments would be appreciated- thanks all!
~X
Welcome to the forums.
First off, your deck is 61 cards by my count. Drop the 7-mana demon; it's not necessary.
Main deck Erebos always feels nice; the hard part is fitting him in. Give it a lot of thought. As a one-of, you're saying you don't need him to win (else you'd be playing 3-4), and you're usually not going to see him. So why put him in? If he's good enough to be included in the main (i.e. you're in a control-heavy meta), perhaps 2-3 is warranted, perhaps at the expense of Desecration Demon.
I'm not sure Nykthos is necessary in this deck; what does it get us? The ability to play multiple cards per turn IF we have solid board presence, which would also mean Connections active...I think we're already winning in that case. It's also impossible to cast Nightveil T3 with Nykthos on the board. I'd strongly suggest a 4th scry land and 4th Mutavault instead.
With Bile Blight so strong, I've relegated Devour Flesh to the sideboard. I now run 3 BB and 3 Doom Blade main, mostly because of the advent of Gruul.
We've been talking about 25 lands on various threads here recently. The bottom line is, most people feel 26 is the best number, but some will run 25. That one land has a 4% effect on the odds of drawing BBB turn 3 or 2BB turn 4.
Regarding the G/R matchup, your sideboard looks solid overall, but I've personally dropped to 3 Duress and added a 4th Lifebane Zombie. Your early strategy involves ripping Domri, Chandra, Courser, and big creatures from their hand (in that order of priority). We have almost as many Doom Blade/Hero's Downfalls as they have big creatures, so keep that in mind when you Thoughtseize, and try to let your evasive creatures handle Xenagos, and the other 2 PW's if they can do it quickly. Do NOT let them get card advantage! I like Duress more than Bile Blight vs the non-Nykthos version of Gruul due to the larger number of PW's, but keep it in if I see Voyaging Satyr or BTE. When considering a mulligan, make sure you have ways to deal with early Domri (preferably T1-2 Thoughtseize/Duress) and at least one Doom Blade/Hero's Downfall.
Of course, if you're on the play, Thoughtseize into T2 Pack Rat, followed by lots and lots of rats, probably wins as usual, but be sure to Thoughtseize/Duress again before they have 3RRR to overload Mortars.
Post-board, my deck looks like this against Gruul:
I'd love to see Connections if the game goes long, but it's so very bad early. I'm still considering dropping one Gary and one land to keep two of them in.
I'm on the same post-SB list against Gruul as the one above, though for some time I did try keeping UC (instead of Nightveil) in as a way to keep up with the CA from Domri/Courser/Chandra. Well, apparently R/G boards in Destructive Revelry which snuffs out UC AND shocks us. Ouch. Nightveil helps hit planeswalkers via evasion, makes your Garys stronger (3 devotion vs. 2 devotion). Also started boarding in Duress against R/G (I don't see much Devotion decks lately) - it's great for dealing with their PWs (Chandra, Domri, Xenagos) and some troublesome spells (Mortars, Flesh/Blood too). I do run +1 Duress instead of +1 LBZ though - I still like having 8 one-mana discard spells against Control variants which I see a lot of (Esper, U/W, American with Assemble the Legion/Counterflux/Warleader's Helix).
First off, your deck is 61 cards by my count. Drop the 7-mana demon; it's not necessary. True, I do run 61- I find that it doesn't make a huge difference in the deck- now granted, any one that does thousands of calculations in this game will probably have a heart attack with me saying that, but I find that I've never cursed myself for having 1 extra card. As for the Demon, he's an absolute blow out 90% of the time, or he allows me to stabilize. He produces a massive army most of the time, and can help un-stall a board state. Call him a pet or tech card, but I really do enjoy having him.
Main deck Erebos always feels nice; the hard part is fitting him in. Give it a lot of thought. As a one-of, you're saying you don't need him to win (else you'd be playing 3-4), and you're usually not going to see him. So why put him in? If he's good enough to be included in the main (i.e. you're in a control-heavy meta), perhaps 2-3 is warranted, perhaps at the expense of Desecration Demon. If I move him to the sideboard, what do you suggest I replace him with from the board?
I'm not sure Nykthos is necessary in this deck; what does it get us? The ability to play multiple cards per turn IF we have solid board presence, which would also mean Connections active...I think we're already winning in that case. It's also impossible to cast Nightveil T3 with Nykthos on the board. I'd strongly suggest a 4th scry land and 4th Mutavault instead. I have to say, I absolutely loove Nykthos in this deck. I've won multiple games I shouldn't have simply because of Nykthos. It has allowed me to turn 6 spit out two Garys at once. (I had Rat, Specterx3). Also, I haven't ever had any mana issues with getting BBB turn 3 (knock on wood). If it starts to give me trouble (I say start, because I just added the Mutavaults- I've been running 0 because I didn't have any), I'll probably x it, but honestly, the card really does a lot in this deck I find.
With Bile Blight so strong, I've relegated Devour Flesh to the sideboard. I now run 3 BB and 3 Doom Blade main, mostly because of the advent of Gruul. I actually do like this idea- especially because of how many Gruul decks there are in my meta. I'll probably do something similar.
We've been talking about 25 lands on various threads here recently. The bottom line is, most people feel 26 is the best number, but some will run 25. That one land has a 4% effect on the odds of drawing BBB turn 3 or 2BB turn 4. I just feel like 26 is a ton of land, especially when I find myself consistently wanting to draw something other than land. With more testing this week with vaults, I'll know by the end of the week. Question is, what do I X for the 26th land?
Regarding the G/R matchup, your sideboard looks solid overall, but I've personally dropped to 3 Duress and added a 4th Lifebane Zombie. Your early strategy involves ripping Domri, Chandra, Courser, and big creatures from their hand (in that order of priority). We have almost as many Doom Blade/Hero's Downfalls as they have big creatures, so keep that in mind when you Thoughtseize, and try to let your evasive creatures handle Xenagos, and the other 2 PW's if they can do it quickly. Do NOT let them get card advantage! I like Duress more than Bile Blight vs the non-Nykthos version of Gruul due to the larger number of PW's, but keep it in if I see Voyaging Satyr or BTE. When considering a mulligan, make sure you have ways to deal with early Domri (preferably T1-2 Thoughtseize/Duress) and at least one Doom Blade/Hero's Downfall. Has G/r Devotion started to run Chandra? I haven't seen her in any of the local decks. Its only 4x Domri, 3/4x Garruk, and 2x Xenagos in my area. I actually hadn't been siding in Duress at all in this matchup. I felt like having 4x Thoughtseize, 4x Downfall, 3x Lifebane could cover their 9-11 walkers. Duress makes a ton of sense though.
Of course, if you're on the play, Thoughtseize into T2 Pack Rat, followed by lots and lots of rats, probably wins as usual, but be sure to Thoughtseize/Duress again before they have 3RRR to overload Mortars.
Post-board, my deck looks like this against Gruul:
I'd love to see Connections if the game goes long, but it's so very bad early. I'm still considering dropping one Gary and one land to keep two of them in.
Thoughts?
I figured just bold-ing my specific answers is easier.
Thanks for all the advice, I'll consider it all, as always!
G/R Devotion usually doesn't run Chandra; G/R Midrange does. The former is capable of bigger plays because it quickly escalates using Voyaging Satyr and BTE in addition to Elves and Caryatids. The latter offers more consistency and greater threat-density because it eschews Satyrs and BTE's for more threats in the 3-5 mana range, and runs Chandra instead of Garruk. Again, duress isn't the best choice against Nykthos/devotion versions, because Bile Blight can hose their Satyr or BTE, both of which seriously disrupt their tempo.
A single extra card in your deck skews your odds of drawing anything by 5%. (For the geeky layman, that's like a "-1" in most paper RPG's.) You're already running one less land than the norm, which is certainly worth consideration on its own, but every exception you make adds up.
Regarding the big demon, I did see it in an early article discussing MBD, so it's definitely been tried. 7-drops are always game-changers; that's why they cost seven. They're also usually traps, because they're so difficult to play. Even green ramp decks usually top out at six. Think about that. It's a dead card until you can play it, at which point it feels like a game-changer because you had a dead card in your hand for five turns and the opponent got ahead. If you plan to mulligan it away if you see it in the opening hand, well, I rest my case.
I strongly suggest you try the conventional build for a while and then see what you want to change. I was in a similar place 2 months ago, and reminded myself that a lot of other people have already run through the same thought process. I figured I'd give Owen Turtenwald's build a try, and splash my own ideas once I got to know it. Turns out, I didn't need to.
Also, as a side note, the rules of this forum specifically prohibit discussion of decks larger than 60 cards. In a competitive environment, we're trying to build the most focused deck possible, with the highest probability of success, and every percentage point counts. It's a hard lesson to learn, especially when there are so many good cards available to play, but it's a key point in our development as players.
Ah, that makes sense, regarding Chandra. G/R Midrange hasn't really given me any problems, its the devotion deck that does.
I realize that the percentages do add up, but I just feel like it doesn't make nearly as big a difference as everyone believes it does. Statistics are minimal in my mind with this game. Statistics say that we have a 90%+ chance (I believe) to open with at least 1 land, but I can't tell you how many times I've opened with 0. Far more than 10%. Statistics apply, yes, but I just don't think they weigh as heavily as people think. I've been playing 61 card decks for a loooong time now, and I can honestly say, I've never once thought "Man, if I had one less card, I would've won that game."
As for the big demon, he's been with me since a week into Theros. I just can't leave him behind. As for being a dead card, I do get that, but as a one of, I only see him every now and then, and have never had him in hand as a dead card- now, I've never drawn him early enough for him to be a dead card, and I can see how that would get annoying, but I feel like because I run 2x Nykthos, I actually have a good chance of dropping him for advantage.
I've been running the conventional build for about 5 months now, and can say that the changes I have made (two cards) have done me more than otherwise.
As for the discussion of 60 card decks, I had no clue- my apologies.
Just out of curiosity, how do we beat American control. T1 thought seize into t2 duress helps but that's post board
There is no real way to make that better. Accept that Game 1 goes to them the majority of time because of all the dead removal in your deck. That is just how the decks line up.
I never just accept that game 1 just goes to any kind of arch type, at worst my kill spells are a turn buyer from aetherling, at best discarded to pack rat
I never just accept that game 1 just goes to any kind of arch type, at worst my kill spells are a turn buyer from aetherling, at best discarded to pack rat
As a player of both decks I can say that the actual threats that Black plays are no problem for UW to handle and you can not beat Sphinx's Revelation. The only real way to win is by making them discard their answers and then pushing your advantage with a threat that threatens to end the game. That is why Game 1 is miserable with only four discard spells on top of all your dead removal.
After board you can go up to eight discard spells and get a few copies of Erebos, God of the Dead which give you much more game against them.
Not saying that winning Game 1 is impossible by any means. It is just very unlikely.
There would be ways to make game 1 better but that would require running stuff like Duress in the main and splashing White for maindeck Sin Collector and Obzedat, Ghost Council. But that makes you worse in a few other areas.
It's not u/w that's the problem, it's American Control. Warleaders helix is a pain to deal with as it hits all my creatures except dd. But then they also have det. Sphere and assemble.
It's very important to focus on card advantage in the control matchups. Removal spells that trade one-for-one aren't too much of an issue, and should almost never be Thoughtseized. Also, remember that evasive creatures and Downfall can usually handle Elspeth, so focus Thoughtseize and Duress on Jace, Verdict, and Sphinx's Rev.
Our goal is to make sure Pack Rat and/or Underworld Connections get rolling, and Nightveil Specter isn't bad, either. Thoughtseize helps us get there by eliminating one of their card-advantage spells, or protecting our Rat/Connections.
Also, remember our removal doesn't have to be dead. As already pointed out, there's always more room for rats. An even better use, though, might be to destroy your own creature with Detention Sphere's exile trigger on the stack, keeping the other copies safe.
It's a tough matchup, but if we force a bunch of early one-for-ones, Thoughtseize a Revelation, and maybe even force a Detention Sphere onto a Pack Rat or two (because who cares if it's a two-for-one if the 2nd card was dead anyway), Underworld Connections into Gray Merchant should eventually pull us ahead.
Hey Guys I'm new to the forums and was wondering if you guys could help me out!
I've been playing MBD since Theros became legal and love it! With the release of Born of The Gods, I recently adapted Owen's latest MBD (Decklist attached) and have been playing a lot on Magic Online. I hate playing against American Control it has too many answers for our deck, unless we have a bunch of rats by turn 5. I am having trouble sideboarding against most of the decks I face because I think both don't playtest enough, and I overpower Desecration Demon now, Idk, I'm not sure. I'd like to see if anyone could give me their opinions or feedback on how to go about sideboarding for the mirror, Esper Mid Range, American, Mono Blue and basically anything else!
Hey Guys I'm new to the forums and was wondering if you guys could help me out!
I've been playing MBD since Theros became legal and love it! With the release of Born of The Gods, I recently adapted Owen's latest MBD (Decklist attached) and have been playing a lot on Magic Online. I hate playing against American Control it has too many answers for our deck, unless we have a bunch of rats by turn 5. I am having trouble sideboarding against most of the decks I face because I think both don't playtest enough, and I overpower Desecration Demon now, Idk, I'm not sure. I'd like to see if anyone could give me their opinions or feedback on how to go about sideboarding for the mirror, Esper Mid Range, American, Mono Blue and basically anything else!
Thanks!
Based on Owen's list you want to bring in Durress ane Erebos. If you have extra room you can also bring in lifebane zombie.
Personally... I play a blue splash for ashiok and am "currently" considering adding notion thief to the SB. Control seems to be my hardest matchup as well.
I run main deck lifebane zombie, whip, no pack rat. Sb has 3 duress, 3 dark betrayal, 2 erebos, 2 pack rat , 2 doom blade, 3 notion thief. Still only testing but has been better than expected.
Statistics apply, yes, but I just don't think they weigh as heavily as people think. I've been playing 61 card decks for a loooong time now, and I can honestly say, I've never once thought "Man, if I had one less card, I would've won that game."
~X
Of course you wouldn't think that, it's not something that's noticeable in a single game. A 5% difference in consistency is too small to see it while you're playing, you would have to keep track of how the deck ran across hundreds of games, perhaps thousands. If you did track 1,000 games, you would presumably see that about 50 of those games were lost because you drew an insignificant "extra" card instead of one that mattered. If you don't play enough games to care about those few losses here and there that's fine, but then the strictly competitive forum might not be the right place to talk about it.
You're right that the statistics have little effect on each individual game. Each time you sit down, shuffle, and pick up a hand, there's a very low chance that the one extra card is going to cost you the game. But over the course of a long tournament those 5% differences can catch up with you. In a ten-round tournament, you're going to play more than 20 games; by the end of the day, you're probably going to lose one of those games because of your own deck's inconsistencies. And those large tournaments are exactly the place you can't afford that kind of loss.
Statistics apply, yes, but I just don't think they weigh as heavily as people think. I've been playing 61 card decks for a loooong time now, and I can honestly say, I've never once thought "Man, if I had one less card, I would've won that game."
~X
Of course you wouldn't think that, it's not something that's noticeable in a single game. A 5% difference in consistency is too small to see it while you're playing, you would have to keep track of how the deck ran across hundreds of games, perhaps thousands. If you did track 1,000 games, you would presumably see that about 50 of those games were lost because you drew an insignificant "extra" card instead of one that mattered. If you don't play enough games to care about those few losses here and there that's fine, but then the strictly competitive forum might not be the right place to talk about it.
You're right that the statistics have little effect on each individual game. Each time you sit down, shuffle, and pick up a hand, there's a very low chance that the one extra card is going to cost you the game. But over the course of a long tournament those 5% differences can catch up with you. In a ten-round tournament, you're going to play more than 20 games; by the end of the day, you're probably going to lose one of those games because of your own deck's inconsistencies. And those large tournaments are exactly the place you can't afford that kind of loss.
5% difference in consistancy is actually high if your only palying 61 cards... adding a 61th card only decreases the probability of drawing any one card by no more than 1%. (while having a more dramatic effect on your mana).
I'm pretty new here and I was wondering if a a red splash has been discussed recently? I realize there's a red splash thread but it hasn't been updated since BNG was released.
I'm currently running 8 red sources (4 shocklands, 4 scrylands) and no red spells MD. I only run the splash for 3x Mizzium Mortars, 2 Slaughter Games and 1x Rakdos Charm.
Rakdos Charm is a card i'm trying out as I wanted to at least have an answer to a resolved Bident against Mono-Blue. And the Charm's won me a couple of games against Brimaz/Elspeth in the late game. (Card's that keep popping up in my LGS.) Please note that this will definitely be one of my first cuts if I find better cards against my meta.
Mortars was a straight up answer to BBV as the card seems to be gaining popularity recently. I'm trying this because I'm not that big of a fan of Devour at the moment. And despite only having 8 red sources, I've been able to overload this a few times so far.
Slaughter Games is a card I've been testing specifically for the UWx match up as sniping their win cons or in some cases, D-Sphere just puts me too far ahead.
Any thoughts?
i splash red for x3 mizzium mortars to answer bbov reliably , x2 dreadbore in the main. x2 rakdos's return in the side. reason why i run 2 dreadbore is to cut one downfall to give slack in the 3cmc slot.
Standard:
WBG Abzan Midrange
Modern:
UWR Kiki-Jiki Control
EDH:
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
Temple of Deceit, Bile Blight, Thoughtseize, Underworld Connections, Duress, Lifebane Zombie, Lifebane Zombie
I chose to keep, and got severely punished as the Temple missed, Thoughtseize showed no Duress targets, and I lost my Temple (only land at the time) on turn 4 to an Encroaching Wastes facing down Xenagos, his satyr minions, and double BTE.
Thoughts on taking a mulligan here?
i fail to see the question at hand. its a one lander in your opening hand. there's nothing else to evaluate
I was 74.5% to hit a second black land within 2 draws and 60.5% to hit two lands within 3 draws. The hand is virtually guaranteed to win if it hits it's land so you could say I'm 60.5% to win here.
Assuming a base 50/50 and using mulligan win/loss rates (no one has ever made a table for constructed, so I'm going off of draft rates here) I would only be 36.6% to win on a random 6.
Standard:
WBG Abzan Midrange
Modern:
UWR Kiki-Jiki Control
EDH:
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
Main Deck
Creatures
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Ashpodel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Abhorrent Overlord
Instants:
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Devour Flesh
3 Bile Blight
Other:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections
Lands:
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
17 Swamp
Sideboard:
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
3 Drown In Sorrow
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Duress
So, the problem match-up for me consistently seems to be Green("red") Devotion. I just can't seem to keep up with a deck that vomits its hand out, draws 6 cards (Courser+Garruk+Domri) and then vomits those cards out just as quick. Tips?
Any and all advice and comments would be appreciated- thanks all!
~X
You're right, though, with two one-mana plays and a scry land, if the rest of the cards are perfect, it's not a bad keep. I think your mistake was misjudging the quality of other cards in your hand. Lacking Downfall or Doom Blade, there's a pretty good chance they put threats on the table faster than you control them, despite your good hand disruption. And yes, Lifebane can punch through to Xenagos, but Domri protects himself with the pit fight option.
This game is all about numbers. Understanding them makes you a better deckbuilder and player. I think we've just shown that "the cards you see in your hand" can support a one-land keep.
Welcome to the forums.
First off, your deck is 61 cards by my count. Drop the 7-mana demon; it's not necessary.
Main deck Erebos always feels nice; the hard part is fitting him in. Give it a lot of thought. As a one-of, you're saying you don't need him to win (else you'd be playing 3-4), and you're usually not going to see him. So why put him in? If he's good enough to be included in the main (i.e. you're in a control-heavy meta), perhaps 2-3 is warranted, perhaps at the expense of Desecration Demon.
I'm not sure Nykthos is necessary in this deck; what does it get us? The ability to play multiple cards per turn IF we have solid board presence, which would also mean Connections active...I think we're already winning in that case. It's also impossible to cast Nightveil T3 with Nykthos on the board. I'd strongly suggest a 4th scry land and 4th Mutavault instead.
With Bile Blight so strong, I've relegated Devour Flesh to the sideboard. I now run 3 BB and 3 Doom Blade main, mostly because of the advent of Gruul.
We've been talking about 25 lands on various threads here recently. The bottom line is, most people feel 26 is the best number, but some will run 25. That one land has a 4% effect on the odds of drawing BBB turn 3 or 2BB turn 4.
Regarding the G/R matchup, your sideboard looks solid overall, but I've personally dropped to 3 Duress and added a 4th Lifebane Zombie. Your early strategy involves ripping Domri, Chandra, Courser, and big creatures from their hand (in that order of priority). We have almost as many Doom Blade/Hero's Downfalls as they have big creatures, so keep that in mind when you Thoughtseize, and try to let your evasive creatures handle Xenagos, and the other 2 PW's if they can do it quickly. Do NOT let them get card advantage! I like Duress more than Bile Blight vs the non-Nykthos version of Gruul due to the larger number of PW's, but keep it in if I see Voyaging Satyr or BTE. When considering a mulligan, make sure you have ways to deal with early Domri (preferably T1-2 Thoughtseize/Duress) and at least one Doom Blade/Hero's Downfall.
Of course, if you're on the play, Thoughtseize into T2 Pack Rat, followed by lots and lots of rats, probably wins as usual, but be sure to Thoughtseize/Duress again before they have 3RRR to overload Mortars.
Post-board, my deck looks like this against Gruul:
18 Swamp
4 Mutavault
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter - blocks satyrs and coursers, hits PW's
4 Lifebane Zombie - almost always at least 2-for-1, hits PW's
4 Desecration Demon - at worst eats Xenagos satyrs, at best hits PW's
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3 Duress - Bile Blight instead if they run Nykthos
3 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
I'd love to see Connections if the game goes long, but it's so very bad early. I'm still considering dropping one Gary and one land to keep two of them in.
I figured just bold-ing my specific answers is easier.
Thanks for all the advice, I'll consider it all, as always!
~X
A single extra card in your deck skews your odds of drawing anything by 5%. (For the geeky layman, that's like a "-1" in most paper RPG's.) You're already running one less land than the norm, which is certainly worth consideration on its own, but every exception you make adds up.
Regarding the big demon, I did see it in an early article discussing MBD, so it's definitely been tried. 7-drops are always game-changers; that's why they cost seven. They're also usually traps, because they're so difficult to play. Even green ramp decks usually top out at six. Think about that. It's a dead card until you can play it, at which point it feels like a game-changer because you had a dead card in your hand for five turns and the opponent got ahead. If you plan to mulligan it away if you see it in the opening hand, well, I rest my case.
I strongly suggest you try the conventional build for a while and then see what you want to change. I was in a similar place 2 months ago, and reminded myself that a lot of other people have already run through the same thought process. I figured I'd give Owen Turtenwald's build a try, and splash my own ideas once I got to know it. Turns out, I didn't need to.
Also, as a side note, the rules of this forum specifically prohibit discussion of decks larger than 60 cards. In a competitive environment, we're trying to build the most focused deck possible, with the highest probability of success, and every percentage point counts. It's a hard lesson to learn, especially when there are so many good cards available to play, but it's a key point in our development as players.
I realize that the percentages do add up, but I just feel like it doesn't make nearly as big a difference as everyone believes it does. Statistics are minimal in my mind with this game. Statistics say that we have a 90%+ chance (I believe) to open with at least 1 land, but I can't tell you how many times I've opened with 0. Far more than 10%. Statistics apply, yes, but I just don't think they weigh as heavily as people think. I've been playing 61 card decks for a loooong time now, and I can honestly say, I've never once thought "Man, if I had one less card, I would've won that game."
As for the big demon, he's been with me since a week into Theros. I just can't leave him behind. As for being a dead card, I do get that, but as a one of, I only see him every now and then, and have never had him in hand as a dead card- now, I've never drawn him early enough for him to be a dead card, and I can see how that would get annoying, but I feel like because I run 2x Nykthos, I actually have a good chance of dropping him for advantage.
I've been running the conventional build for about 5 months now, and can say that the changes I have made (two cards) have done me more than otherwise.
As for the discussion of 60 card decks, I had no clue- my apologies.
~X
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
There is no real way to make that better. Accept that Game 1 goes to them the majority of time because of all the dead removal in your deck. That is just how the decks line up.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
As a player of both decks I can say that the actual threats that Black plays are no problem for UW to handle and you can not beat Sphinx's Revelation. The only real way to win is by making them discard their answers and then pushing your advantage with a threat that threatens to end the game. That is why Game 1 is miserable with only four discard spells on top of all your dead removal.
After board you can go up to eight discard spells and get a few copies of Erebos, God of the Dead which give you much more game against them.
Not saying that winning Game 1 is impossible by any means. It is just very unlikely.
There would be ways to make game 1 better but that would require running stuff like Duress in the main and splashing White for maindeck Sin Collector and Obzedat, Ghost Council. But that makes you worse in a few other areas.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Our goal is to make sure Pack Rat and/or Underworld Connections get rolling, and Nightveil Specter isn't bad, either. Thoughtseize helps us get there by eliminating one of their card-advantage spells, or protecting our Rat/Connections.
Also, remember our removal doesn't have to be dead. As already pointed out, there's always more room for rats. An even better use, though, might be to destroy your own creature with Detention Sphere's exile trigger on the stack, keeping the other copies safe.
It's a tough matchup, but if we force a bunch of early one-for-ones, Thoughtseize a Revelation, and maybe even force a Detention Sphere onto a Pack Rat or two (because who cares if it's a two-for-one if the 2nd card was dead anyway), Underworld Connections into Gray Merchant should eventually pull us ahead.
I've been playing MBD since Theros became legal and love it! With the release of Born of The Gods, I recently adapted Owen's latest MBD (Decklist attached) and have been playing a lot on Magic Online. I hate playing against American Control it has too many answers for our deck, unless we have a bunch of rats by turn 5. I am having trouble sideboarding against most of the decks I face because I think both don't playtest enough, and I overpower Desecration Demon now, Idk, I'm not sure. I'd like to see if anyone could give me their opinions or feedback on how to go about sideboarding for the mirror, Esper Mid Range, American, Mono Blue and basically anything else!
Thanks!
Based on Owen's list you want to bring in Durress ane Erebos. If you have extra room you can also bring in lifebane zombie.
Personally... I play a blue splash for ashiok and am "currently" considering adding notion thief to the SB. Control seems to be my hardest matchup as well.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Of course you wouldn't think that, it's not something that's noticeable in a single game. A 5% difference in consistency is too small to see it while you're playing, you would have to keep track of how the deck ran across hundreds of games, perhaps thousands. If you did track 1,000 games, you would presumably see that about 50 of those games were lost because you drew an insignificant "extra" card instead of one that mattered. If you don't play enough games to care about those few losses here and there that's fine, but then the strictly competitive forum might not be the right place to talk about it.
You're right that the statistics have little effect on each individual game. Each time you sit down, shuffle, and pick up a hand, there's a very low chance that the one extra card is going to cost you the game. But over the course of a long tournament those 5% differences can catch up with you. In a ten-round tournament, you're going to play more than 20 games; by the end of the day, you're probably going to lose one of those games because of your own deck's inconsistencies. And those large tournaments are exactly the place you can't afford that kind of loss.
5% difference in consistancy is actually high if your only palying 61 cards... adding a 61th card only decreases the probability of drawing any one card by no more than 1%. (while having a more dramatic effect on your mana).
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I just switched to MonoB
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG