I'm still running NVS and have no plans of switching to LBZ any time soon. The ability to play your opponents cards realistically in a standard deck is huge! I can't count how many times I've played a divination off of the top of my opponent's deck. Let's not forget that NVS generates card advantage and certainly is a component as to why this deck is so efficient.
As for UC, if you decide to run 3 AND run LBZ main, it will be very statistically unlikely that you will be able to win G1. If anyone has ever played a serious mirror, it's basically a race to UC--mirrors, more than any other matchup save control, are won with card advantage.
LBZ always generates card advantage if it hits, and even sometimes when it doesn't. I'm actually a fan of NVS as well, and I play it in both of my lists (I finally decided on playing either Mono-B or Bu depending on the meta) but because of the emergence of decks like Naya Hexproof, LBZ has the edge right now.
Just got done playing 6 matches against a GR player.
After the 3rd match, Bile Blight was the first card I put into the SB. Added 2x Zombies for them. Then added the other 2x Zombies for 2x NVS.
Worked out pretty good. I won 4/6 matches with me losing all but 1 first game. I know it's a small sample, but it's a start for me.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Just got done playing 6 matches against a GR player.
After the 3rd match, Bile Blight was the first card I put into the SB. Added 2x Zombies for them. Then added the other 2x Zombies for 2x NVS.
Worked out pretty good. I won 4/6 matches with me losing all but 1 first game. I know it's a small sample, but it's a start for me.
That sounds about right. Though I'm not a fan of keeping x4 connections vs GR.
Just got done playing 6 matches against a GR player.
After the 3rd match, Bile Blight was the first card I put into the SB. Added 2x Zombies for them. Then added the other 2x Zombies for 2x NVS.
Worked out pretty good. I won 4/6 matches with me losing all but 1 first game. I know it's a small sample, but it's a start for me.
That sounds about right. Though I'm not a fan of keeping x4 connections vs GR.
He had to go, but yea, I wanted to see the mix of zombx/nvs and how they did together. It was just the most underwhelming card late game (BB) The UC got pitched for rat tokent, so it would've been a wash either way I guess
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Both axman and I have decided to play the NVS. It's makes better sense. 1 extra devotion, evasion, good against aggro, and steals cards. Also for those of you trimming a connections. This is 100% incorrect. It wins the mirror, it's the bag way to get ahead of the controls decks andets you serch for Gary. There should be 4 in the main.
Both axman and I have decided to play the NVS. It's makes better sense. 1 extra devotion, evasion, good against aggro, and steals cards. Also for those of you trimming a connections. This is 100% incorrect. It wins the mirror, it's the bag way to get ahead of the controls decks andets you serch for Gary. There should be 4 in the main.
Paper magic is a different story however. But I only play online so I cant comment much on that. I only know that in big tournaments Mono-Black is not as dominating as online or before BNG got released and therefore you will likely play against more non-black decks. Should keep that it mind if you think about joining one of those.
Both axman and I have decided to play the NVS. It's makes better sense. 1 extra devotion, evasion, good against aggro, and steals cards. Also for those of you trimming a connections. This is 100% incorrect. It wins the mirror, it's the bag way to get ahead of the controls decks andets you serch for Gary. There should be 4 in the main.
Anyone knows how to improve the match up against boros burn? It's so bad. What I've noticed tho is they usually have just 2 white sources the entire game (which is pretty short) so I'm going to test Contaminated Ground on the side. Here's what my SB would look like with it :
Anyone knows how to improve the match up against boros burn? It's so bad. What I've noticed tho is they usually have just 2 white sources the entire game (which is pretty short) so I'm going to test Contaminated Ground on the side. Here's what my SB would look like with it :
Interesting. I'm finally going to an FNM tonight, so I will see how it plays out. Like I said before, there aren't
many T1 decks where I play, but I hope to at least play someone competitive.
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The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Anyone knows how to improve the match up against boros burn? It's so bad. What I've noticed tho is they usually have just 2 white sources the entire game (which is pretty short) so I'm going to test Contaminated Ground on the side. Here's what my SB would look like with it :
Interesting. I'm finally going to an FNM tonight, so I will see how it plays out. Like I said before, there aren't
many T1 decks where I play, but I hope to at least play someone competitive.
Haven't had the time to test it. Might be a bad idea but hey, what else can bring against a burn deck? Wen't 3-1 online on a private tourney and only lost to Boros burn (also lost last week against it) that's why I'm starting to think of a way to somehow improve this matchup. This was the list I brought on the tourney
I wouldn't side in LBZ against burn since it dies to every removal spell they have. I also typically pull the pack rats since they're such a priority target and are so easy to remove early via cheap burn. Side in duress and erebos, plus a couple of doom blades to take care of Phoenixes here and there, and this matchup is not a huge issue.
Anyone knows how to improve the match up against boros burn? It's so bad. What I've noticed tho is they usually have just 2 white sources the entire game (which is pretty short) so I'm going to test Contaminated Ground on the side. Here's what my SB would look like with it :
I have tested CG on modo, and it all really depends on the play or on the draw. It gets it best use when its turn 2 and they only have 1 mana out. I have also used it against the mirror to shut down mutavaults, so it might have more credence then originally shown. I will try to pick some up for tonight and post back
I've considered putting a Trading Post or two in the board for the Burn matchup. Gaining four life each turn can put the game out of reach pretty quick. The only problem is the other three abilities don't really do anything in mono-black.
OK, here is how tonight went
2-2-1 made top 4 2nd place overall (split, I gave opponent PW Points)
Round 1 -Bye, only 15 players
Rnd 2 GR
Mull to 6 on the draw
My T1 Sieze, see he is holding 5 lands and strip the Zenagos
T2 packrat
T3 discard land , packrat
T4 Specter, he scoops (?)
G2
out: 4 specter, 3 blight
in: 4 zombie, 3 duress
Finally get a Nuts draw.
T1 Temple, see duress
T2 swamp->Seize stormbreath Duress->Domri
T3 swamp, specter
T4 Swamp, packrat
T5 Mutavault, Discard Demon create rat attack 5
T6 Swamp, discard another Demon, create rat attack and scoop
He sided in 3x Arbor Colossus and something else I don't recall. Maybe Mortars
Round 3
GR again
On the play, I mull to 5. No chance
G2-same sb as above.
Mull to 5 again, but I put back a hand with Duress, 2 swamp, 2 Gary, Hero's Down Fall. I think I should have taken a chance with this hand
Kept a hand with 3 land a Rat & Specter, just couldn't get going. Didn't draw anything to get rid of Stormbreath or Polukranos. On the defense all game.
Round 4
Mirror
G1 was close, attacking and removing creatures by both of us. He lands 2 UC, but I land the Erebos. His Gary's are useless, mine aren't. Oh, and I used my Specter to take his lands, and I kept discarding mine for Rats to sac to his Demon.
G2
Move 3 Bile Blight to board in come 3 Dark Betrayal
T1 Deceit see Seize
T2 Swamp->seize Gary ->seize Demon Leave him with 3 swamp & Bile Blight
T3 Rat
T4 Mutavault, Rat
T5 discard UC, create rat swing for 8
T6 Gary for game
That puts me in the Top 2, and I split with the guy that beat me round 3. We play for fun, and I lose again, but at least I won G2 haha.
Had a good time. Duress out of the board is huge against GR, especially if they have at least 2 walkers. Very surprised to see real GR decks
I never played a UC or a Zombie so I can't comment on how they performed, but I will assume they would have done their share of the work if I would have casted them. Erebos is a definite MUST against the mirror.
Round 1; G/W Good stuff? (younger kid, may not have had all the expensive cards)
G1:(otp) T1 seize lion, T2 CG his g/w land, T3 CG his Garden, and take over from there.
G2:(otd) (side out CG for more kill) kept trip land, trip grey, and a seize. he proceeds to beat my face with a pumped up tokens as I never got the 5th land
G3:(OTP) (return CG take out 1 Grey 1 UC and 1 DD) got somewhat of a nuts draw. Dropped a CG turn 2, LBZ turn 3 UC turn 4 Grey turn 5
Round 2; B/R agro (unleash variant)
G1 (OTP) win pretty straight forward no chance to drop CG
G2 (OTD) (side out CG for kill) lost to being swarmed and no answers
G3 (OTP) (reside in CG out goes 3 LBZ) Droped DD T4, and he had no answers
Round 3; Naya Hexproof
G1 (OTP) strip his only creature and mutavaults take the game
G2 (OTD) He scouts into double ethereal armor had there was nothing I could do.
G3 (OTP) he muls down to 5 and I strip his only creature. He eventualy gets a knight token enchanted with unflinching Courage, but Gray takes him down in the long run.
Round 4; Mono Black Aggro (He played the 1/1 bestow that when it attacks, defending player losses 2 life)
G1 (OTP) nothing much, lost to bad draws)
G2 (OTP) Same again, hit a massive land pocket of 9+ lands in a row including 2 separate scry's
Notes on CG;
I LOVE this card. I think I will keep 3 in the main for now and play it more. I used it one mountians with chain to the rock on it to remove the chains, I used it shut down mana sources, and I used it on lands that had UC on it, (3 life to draw a card, not so good) however I am not that biased enough to think that every one should play it. It deserves more testing at worst, and at best will have a perm spot in my 75.
Round 1; G/W Good stuff? (younger kid, may not have had all the expensive cards)
G1:(otp) T1 seize lion, T2 CG his g/w land, T3 CG his Garden, and take over from there.
G2:(otd) (side out CG for more kill) kept trip land, trip grey, and a seize. he proceeds to beat my face with a pumped up tokens as I never got the 5th land
G3:(OTP) (return CG take out 1 Grey 1 UC and 1 DD) got somewhat of a nuts draw. Dropped a CG turn 2, LBZ turn 3 UC turn 4 Grey turn 5
Round 2; B/R agro (unleash variant)
G1 (OTP) win pretty straight forward no chance to drop CG
G2 (OTD) (side out CG for kill) lost to being swarmed and no answers
G3 (OTP) (reside in CG out goes 3 LBZ) Droped DD T4, and he had no answers
Round 3; Naya Hexproof
G1 (OTP) strip his only creature and mutavaults take the game
G2 (OTD) He scouts into double ethereal armor had there was nothing I could do.
G3 (OTP) he muls down to 5 and I strip his only creature. He eventualy gets a knight token enchanted with unflinching Courage, but Gray takes him down in the long run.
Round 4; Mono Black Aggro (He played the 1/1 bestow that when it attacks, defending player losses 2 life)
G1 (OTP) nothing much, lost to bad draws)
G2 (OTP) Same again, hit a massive land pocket of 9+ lands in a row including 2 separate scry's
Notes on CG;
I LOVE this card. I think I will keep 3 in the main for now and play it more. I used it one mountians with chain to the rock on it to remove the chains, I used it shut down mana sources, and I used it on lands that had UC on it, (3 life to draw a card, not so good) however I am not that biased enough to think that every one should play it. It deserves more testing at worst, and at best will have a perm spot in my 75.
There are several things wrong with your list. Maybe it's your meta, but I honestly can't think of a meta where that's correct. First, you should not only be playing 3 Pack Rats. It's the best card in the deck except maybe Thoughtseize and everyone should play 4. 3 UC is okay, although 4 is probably better. Second, you cut a bunch of removal to play CG, Whip, and LBZ main. 7 maindeck removal spells just isn't enough.
And the sideboard. You can't play Obzedat with only 4 white sources. And 4 Doom Blade is much better than a 2/2 split with UP.
I'm still not convinced on CG. Maybe as a 1-of in the board, but it has no place in the main.
There are several things wrong with your list. Maybe it's your meta, but I honestly can't think of a meta where that's correct. First, you should not only be playing 3 Pack Rats. It's the best card in the deck except maybe Thoughtseize and everyone should play 4. 3 UC is okay, although 4 is probably better. Second, you cut a bunch of removal to play CG, Whip, and LBZ main. 7 maindeck removal spells just isn't enough.
And the sideboard. You can't play Obzedat with only 4 white sources. And 4 Doom Blade is much better than a 2/2 split with UP.
I'm still not convinced on CG. Maybe as a 1-of in the board, but it has no place in the main.
Your right on the meta, normally there is at least 3 control players 2 R/G monsters 1 Mono Red, and a R/W Burn, along with all the rest of the decks I mentioned earlier.
My sideboard is still shifting. I threw in the obzedat in case of control, but will probably drop it for something else.
I was thinking of doing this with my deck
-2 CG (main and sb)
-1 Obzedat
-1 whip
+1 Pack
+1 Erebos (SB)
+1 Doomblade
+1 Dark Betrayal
@higher_zero Your meta basically looks like a bunch of aggro decks with a few control players. In that meta, I'd recommend playing at least 3 Drown in Sorrow in your 75, and maybe even maindecking 1 or 2. The maindeck Whip makes sense now, so I'd keep it. I'd play a couple maindeck copies of Bile Blight as well. I still wouldn't maindeck CG, but I'd play a couple copies in the board.
Also, like a lot of other people, I'd like to know how to improve the Boros Burn matchup. I haven't played against the deck yet, but it sounds pretty bad.
Also, like a lot of other people, I'd like to know how to improve the Boros Burn matchup. I haven't played against the deck yet, but it sounds pretty bad.
I know your not sold on the card yet, but CG is my best tech against them. Being able to shut down red or/and white mana just kills their tempo
@higher_zero Your meta basically looks like a bunch of aggro decks with a few control players. In that meta, I'd recommend playing at least 3 Drown in Sorrow in your 75, and maybe even maindecking 1 or 2. The maindeck Whip makes sense now, so I'd keep it. I'd play a couple maindeck copies of Bile Blight as well. I still wouldn't maindeck CG, but I'd play a couple copies in the board.
Also, like a lot of other people, I'd like to know how to improve the Boros Burn matchup. I haven't played against the deck yet, but it sounds pretty bad.
This really isn't a bad MU, our best weapons against them are Duress, Erebos, God of the Dead, and believe it or not, Desecration Demon. DD is an all-star here because he demands a 2 for 1 fr every single removal spell they have, and if they sack pyromancer tokens to it, it becomes even more difficult to remove.
LBZ always generates card advantage if it hits, and even sometimes when it doesn't. I'm actually a fan of NVS as well, and I play it in both of my lists (I finally decided on playing either Mono-B or Bu depending on the meta) but because of the emergence of decks like Naya Hexproof, LBZ has the edge right now.
After the 3rd match, Bile Blight was the first card I put into the SB. Added 2x Zombies for them. Then added the other 2x Zombies for 2x NVS.
Worked out pretty good. I won 4/6 matches with me losing all but 1 first game. I know it's a small sample, but it's a start for me.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
That sounds about right. Though I'm not a fan of keeping x4 connections vs GR.
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He had to go, but yea, I wanted to see the mix of zombx/nvs and how they did together. It was just the most underwhelming card late game (BB) The UC got pitched for rat tokent, so it would've been a wash either way I guess
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
On MTGO that is true. Mono-Black is the king and the mirror is common.
http://www.mtgo-stats.com/
Paper magic is a different story however. But I only play online so I cant comment much on that. I only know that in big tournaments Mono-Black is not as dominating as online or before BNG got released and therefore you will likely play against more non-black decks. Should keep that it mind if you think about joining one of those.
^Thank you.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
3 Duress
2 Doom Blade
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Devour Flesh
3 Contaminated Ground
Interesting. I'm finally going to an FNM tonight, so I will see how it plays out. Like I said before, there aren't
many T1 decks where I play, but I hope to at least play someone competitive.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
Haven't had the time to test it. Might be a bad idea but hey, what else can bring against a burn deck? Wen't 3-1 online on a private tourney and only lost to Boros burn (also lost last week against it) that's why I'm starting to think of a way to somehow improve this matchup. This was the list I brought on the tourney
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
I have tested CG on modo, and it all really depends on the play or on the draw. It gets it best use when its turn 2 and they only have 1 mana out. I have also used it against the mirror to shut down mutavaults, so it might have more credence then originally shown. I will try to pick some up for tonight and post back
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
18 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Pack Rat
4 Thoughtseize
4 Underworld Connections
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Bile Blight
3 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
4 Lifebane Zombie
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
OK, here is how tonight went
2-2-1 made top 4 2nd place overall (split, I gave opponent PW Points)
Round 1 -Bye, only 15 players
Rnd 2 GR
Mull to 6 on the draw
My T1 Sieze, see he is holding 5 lands and strip the Zenagos
T2 packrat
T3 discard land , packrat
T4 Specter, he scoops (?)
G2
out: 4 specter, 3 blight
in: 4 zombie, 3 duress
Finally get a Nuts draw.
T1 Temple, see duress
T2 swamp->Seize stormbreath Duress->Domri
T3 swamp, specter
T4 Swamp, packrat
T5 Mutavault, Discard Demon create rat attack 5
T6 Swamp, discard another Demon, create rat attack and scoop
He sided in 3x Arbor Colossus and something else I don't recall. Maybe Mortars
Round 3
GR again
On the play, I mull to 5. No chance
G2-same sb as above.
Mull to 5 again, but I put back a hand with Duress, 2 swamp, 2 Gary, Hero's Down Fall. I think I should have taken a chance with this hand
Kept a hand with 3 land a Rat & Specter, just couldn't get going. Didn't draw anything to get rid of Stormbreath or Polukranos. On the defense all game.
Round 4
Mirror
G1 was close, attacking and removing creatures by both of us. He lands 2 UC, but I land the Erebos. His Gary's are useless, mine aren't. Oh, and I used my Specter to take his lands, and I kept discarding mine for Rats to sac to his Demon.
G2
Move 3 Bile Blight to board in come 3 Dark Betrayal
T1 Deceit see Seize
T2 Swamp->seize Gary ->seize Demon Leave him with 3 swamp & Bile Blight
T3 Rat
T4 Mutavault, Rat
T5 discard UC, create rat swing for 8
T6 Gary for game
That puts me in the Top 2, and I split with the guy that beat me round 3. We play for fun, and I lose again, but at least I won G2 haha.
Had a good time. Duress out of the board is huge against GR, especially if they have at least 2 walkers. Very surprised to see real GR decks
I never played a UC or a Zombie so I can't comment on how they performed, but I will assume they would have done their share of the work if I would have casted them. Erebos is a definite MUST against the mirror.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it....
3x Pack Rat
3x Lifebane Zombie
3x Nightveil Spector
4x Desecration Demon
4x Grey Merchant of Asphodel
Spells
4x Thoughtseize
3x Contaminated Ground
4x Hero's Downfall
3x Underworld Connections
2x Devour Flesh
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Bile Blight
4x Temple of Silence
4x Mutavault
17x Swamp
3x Duress
2x Doomblade
2x Ultimate Price
2x Bile Blight
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Pithing Needle
1x Underworld Connections
1x Contaminated Ground
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
Round 1; G/W Good stuff? (younger kid, may not have had all the expensive cards)
G1:(otp) T1 seize lion, T2 CG his g/w land, T3 CG his Garden, and take over from there.
G2:(otd) (side out CG for more kill) kept trip land, trip grey, and a seize. he proceeds to beat my face with a pumped up tokens as I never got the 5th land
G3:(OTP) (return CG take out 1 Grey 1 UC and 1 DD) got somewhat of a nuts draw. Dropped a CG turn 2, LBZ turn 3 UC turn 4 Grey turn 5
Round 2; B/R agro (unleash variant)
G1 (OTP) win pretty straight forward no chance to drop CG
G2 (OTD) (side out CG for kill) lost to being swarmed and no answers
G3 (OTP) (reside in CG out goes 3 LBZ) Droped DD T4, and he had no answers
Round 3; Naya Hexproof
G1 (OTP) strip his only creature and mutavaults take the game
G2 (OTD) He scouts into double ethereal armor had there was nothing I could do.
G3 (OTP) he muls down to 5 and I strip his only creature. He eventualy gets a knight token enchanted with unflinching Courage, but Gray takes him down in the long run.
Round 4; Mono Black Aggro (He played the 1/1 bestow that when it attacks, defending player losses 2 life)
G1 (OTP) nothing much, lost to bad draws)
G2 (OTP) Same again, hit a massive land pocket of 9+ lands in a row including 2 separate scry's
Notes on CG;
I LOVE this card. I think I will keep 3 in the main for now and play it more. I used it one mountians with chain to the rock on it to remove the chains, I used it shut down mana sources, and I used it on lands that had UC on it, (3 life to draw a card, not so good) however I am not that biased enough to think that every one should play it. It deserves more testing at worst, and at best will have a perm spot in my 75.
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
There are several things wrong with your list. Maybe it's your meta, but I honestly can't think of a meta where that's correct. First, you should not only be playing 3 Pack Rats. It's the best card in the deck except maybe Thoughtseize and everyone should play 4. 3 UC is okay, although 4 is probably better. Second, you cut a bunch of removal to play CG, Whip, and LBZ main. 7 maindeck removal spells just isn't enough.
And the sideboard. You can't play Obzedat with only 4 white sources. And 4 Doom Blade is much better than a 2/2 split with UP.
I'm still not convinced on CG. Maybe as a 1-of in the board, but it has no place in the main.
Your right on the meta, normally there is at least 3 control players 2 R/G monsters 1 Mono Red, and a R/W Burn, along with all the rest of the decks I mentioned earlier.
My sideboard is still shifting. I threw in the obzedat in case of control, but will probably drop it for something else.
I was thinking of doing this with my deck
-2 CG (main and sb)
-1 Obzedat
-1 whip
+1 Pack
+1 Erebos (SB)
+1 Doomblade
+1 Dark Betrayal
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
Also, like a lot of other people, I'd like to know how to improve the Boros Burn matchup. I haven't played against the deck yet, but it sounds pretty bad.
I know your not sold on the card yet, but CG is my best tech against them. Being able to shut down red or/and white mana just kills their tempo
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514
This really isn't a bad MU, our best weapons against them are Duress, Erebos, God of the Dead, and believe it or not, Desecration Demon. DD is an all-star here because he demands a 2 for 1 fr every single removal spell they have, and if they sack pyromancer tokens to it, it becomes even more difficult to remove.
BMono Black DevotionB
BB/w ControlW
My Trades
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=459514